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Author Topic: What would it take to resolve the crisis?  (Read 3210 times)

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Offline Stanley N

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What would it take to resolve the crisis?
« on: October 12, 2018, 04:49:06 PM »
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  • This thread https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/an-honest-question-for-those-inclined-against-the-resistance/ prompts the question.

    We would like Rome to say V2 is completely null and void. But humanly speaking, that's probably not going to happen. An orthodox Rome could rescind some V2 docuмents and issue authoritative interpretations of others. It also could impose some sacrifices, such as requiring traditional bishops to function as priests, not bishops.

    What would and wouldn't be acceptable to you to end the crisis?


    Offline obediens

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 09:17:10 PM »
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  • None of this will be resolved until the first and most important, truly necessary step is taken: the Consecration of Russia.


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #2 on: October 14, 2018, 09:31:52 AM »
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  • None of this will be resolved until the first and most important, truly necessary step is taken: the Consecration of Russia.
    Yes, this is the first step. Consecrate Russia and release the real third secret. Then the other issues can follow.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 05:54:37 PM »
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  • No, the consecration of Russia was meant to PREVENT the crisis.  Too late for any of that now.

    Third Secret would have exposed the plans of the ʝʊdɛօ-Mason Communists to infiltrate the Church and install their man Roncalli on the See of Peter.  That's why Sister Lucia said the Secret should be released around 1960 at the latest.  When asked why 1960, she said it's because it would be much clearer then.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 06:07:56 PM »
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  • Since this is a Spiritual Battle, then it takes Heaven to do it.  Catholic prophecies speaks of this.  Three days darkness.  A time of peace.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 08:12:46 PM »
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  • No, the consecration of Russia was meant to PREVENT the crisis.  Too late for any of that now.

    Third Secret would have exposed the plans of the ʝʊdɛօ-Mason Communists to infiltrate the Church and install their man Roncalli on the See of Peter.  That's why Sister Lucia said the Secret should be released around 1960 at the latest.  When asked why 1960, she said it's because it would be much clearer then.
    Our Lady  said to Sister Lucy in Tuy (1929) that the consecration would be done- late. We will not avoid Russia's spreading of errors or a great chastisement but her Immaculate Heart will reign as Jesus Wills it to be. After the consecration there will be a period of peace.This will happen.
    " It is never too late to recourse to Jesus and Mary"

    The Consecration of Russia is the vehicle Jesus requires  to install the reign of the Immaculate Heart of His Mother- yes, it would have prevented the crisis by 1960 if it were known, but the conversion of Russia and the consummation of Our Lady vanquishing the devil requires it.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 05:00:38 PM »
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  • This thread https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/an-honest-question-for-those-inclined-against-the-resistance/ prompts the question.

    We would like Rome to say V2 is completely null and void. But humanly speaking, that's probably not going to happen. An orthodox Rome could rescind some V2 docuмents and issue authoritative interpretations of others. It also could impose some sacrifices, such as requiring traditional bishops to function as priests, not bishops.

    What would and wouldn't be acceptable to you to end the crisis?
    .
    The Modernist corruption has gone so high these days that it seems impossible by human means alone, something more is required.
    .
    The Pope and all the bishops of the world making the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary would be a great help.
    .
    But how to get that to happen? Fr. Gruner tried some rather inventive methods but so far to no avail. 
    .
    It seems to me that if Catholics would read Fr. Lemius' book, A Catechism on Modernism, they would be able to understand the crisis better.
    .
    Perhaps then more Catholics would be willing to pray and do penance for the Consecration to in fact happen.
    .
    Other than that, God might have to punish the world with a physical chastisement before the Pope and Bishops step up to the plate.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 05:14:03 PM »
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  • We would like Rome to say V2 is completely null and void. But humanly speaking, that's probably not going to happen.

    I imagine Bergoglio having a dream. On the next day he'd convert to the true faith. He'd declare that the robber council was a a robber council, and that all its followers are heretics. Including himself.

    Then we have no pope and no cardinals.

    Nothing would change. We have the same situation now. The robber council was a a robber council, and all its followers are heretics. Having a non-pope declaring that he now learned that he was and is a non-pope would not help at all.

    R&Rers, rejecting the fact that sedes are vacant, because then we wouldn't have a chance of a pope till judgement day, should recognize that their stance does not make the situation better.


    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 05:37:45 PM »
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  • .
    The Modernist corruption has gone so high these days that it seems impossible by human means alone, something more is required.
    .
    The Pope and all the bishops of the world making the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary would be a great help.

    A bunch of modernist heretics making a consecration would be a pleasure to the devil.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 05:43:30 PM »
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  • But how to get that to happen? Fr. Gruner tried some rather inventive methods but so far to no avail.

    Gruner thought that the modernist heretic Ratzinger was a pope.


    It seems to me that if Catholics would read Fr. Lemius' book, A Catechism on Modernism, they would be able to understand the crisis better.

    But reading Lemius is not enough. Gotta read the modernists too to understand that they are heretics and that they and all their followers have to be treated as such. And to understand that consecrations of heretics are an abomination to the Lord.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 07:32:05 PM »
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  • "I beseech thee, saith he, be not angry, Lord, if I speak yet once more: What if ten should be found there ? And he said: I will not destroy it for the sake of ten. And the Lord departed, after he had left speaking to Abraham: and Abraham returned to his place".  (Genesis 18-32)

    Abraham did not find even 10 just souls in all of Sodom & Gomorrah. I do not think there are enough real Catholics today to avert a great physical chastisement, we are living in a great spiritual chastisement, God has abandoned the world to sink in it's own filth, and yet not a one has noticed it, they all live in the "best of times". I think we are living in the end times, the time of the anti-Christ.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 02:08:17 AM »
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  • This thread https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/an-honest-question-for-those-inclined-against-the-resistance/ prompts the question.

    We would like Rome to say V2 is completely null and void. But humanly speaking, that's probably not going to happen. An orthodox Rome could rescind some V2 docuмents and issue authoritative interpretations of others. It also could impose some sacrifices, such as requiring traditional bishops to function as priests, not bishops.

    What would and wouldn't be acceptable to you to end the crisis?
    It would have to include at minimum these 20 actions:
    1. Restoring The index (which would mean a reverse Index, practically speaking, since there's so much trash out there, including what's been written by aberrant theologians).  The index would be "Everything," minus Exceptions.  "Everything" would include all the modernism that passes for Catholicism within the second half of the 20th century and forward from there.  Better yet, there would be two indices:  One regarding Religion; the other for secular works.
    2. A formal repudiation of the Second Vatican Council -- its docuмents, its language, its vagueness, its residual "spirit," its informal outgrowths that became passively "institutionalized," such as CITH, secular musical instruments at Mass, etc.  Elimination of RCIA.  Conversions are restored 1:1 to the local priest.  (Already true in my parish.)
    3. The restoration of traditional liturgy, in Latin -- not a "Latinized" NOM.  This would be universal decree, including for mission territories.  The NOM would be declared illicit and those celebrating or attending it in schism.
    4. The restoration of traditional authority in the Church, which means exclusively male (clerical) governance.
    5. The dismantling of the diocesan bureaucratic structure and its de facto lay control.  The episcopacy is reduced and simplified to what is essential for the bishop to carry out his appointed mission and no other role, such as Public Relations Man, politician, etc.
    6. With that ^, the elimination of the secular alliances the Church has forged in the last 60 years with "causes" and organizations whose purposes oppose the moral teachings of the Church or do not relate in any way to the salvation of souls.  #5 and #6 will also free up a ton of money.
    7. Restoration of the 1917 Canon Law and enforcement of it.
    8. Restoration of all traditional apostolates and orders that have been persecuted under Francis and/or by particular bishops. 
    9. Restoration of traditional sacramental rites (all, including their appropriate names:  Penance, not "Reconciliation"; Extreme Unction, etc.)
    10. Mandatory re-institution of religious rank and respect.  The end of priests wearing secular garb; religious women wearing modern clothing.  Habits, collars, etc.  Titles of respect.
    11. Re-instruction of men educated in N.O. seminaries.  They will have to learn Latin, the traditional sacramental rites, and traditional doctrine, and be tested on it before being declared suitable for ministry.
    12. The closing of orders of women which refuse to re-align with Tradition in teaching, mission, and lifestyle.  The end of religious women living singly; mandatory re-institution of community life.
    13.  Re-examination of the mission of orders and communities that have abandoned their foundress' intentions.  They will be restored to their original mission or closed.
    14.  Automatic approval of orders of women dedicated or re-dedicated (reverting) to nursing, teaching, and running private orphanages.
    15. The re-naming of Catholic schools and colleges which are not aligned to Tradition and teaching orthodox Catholicism exclusively in the religion curriculum, or the reshaping of them to conform to Tradition.
    16. Bonfires for the CCC.  Return of the St. Pius X Catechism for laity, the Council of Trent catechism, etc.
    17. Return of the midnight fast, the pre-1962 Lenten disciplines (abstinence, fasting), etc.
    18. Official restoration of all pre-V2 Catholic devotions.
    19. Removal of images of V2 papal "saints" on church grounds.  Demoting of their feast days on the traditional calendar.  No official promotion of devotion to them; removal of their names from liturgical prayers.
    20. Return of the deliberate role of the Church as singular witness to Truth in the public square.

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #12 on: October 17, 2018, 02:46:52 AM »
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  • Sorry that I forgot #21, 22, 23 and 24:

    21.  Restoring of sacred space and the interior and exterior architecture denoting that.  All sanctuaries will again look Catholic, as will the naves of churches, which will have pews and traditional confessional boxes, not "Reconciliation Rooms."  Tabernacles restored to the center of the sanctuary.  Contemporary-styled art to be replaced by traditional art in style and subject.  Return of traditional statues.
    22.  Dress code for Mass attendance, probably somewhat like the SSPX dress code which forbids informal clothing for both sexes and forbids pants for women.  Head coverings mandatory for women and enforced by priests, not by laity.  Dress code posted in vestibule/narthex.
    23.  While it may go without saying, clerical governance will extend to the parish level, which will mean the elimination of lay "boards," "councils," and "committees" of all kinds.  The role of laity is to obey their priest, not to be his equal, his consultants, to establish parallel governance, or to issue commands to him.
    24. The re-teaching of correct Mass rubrics to uninstructed laity (including genuflecting, kneeling, silence, sign of the cross, Leonine prayers, responses, etc.)

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #13 on: October 17, 2018, 01:41:56 PM »
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  • Thank you, "Anonymous" in another thread.  #25 is very important.

    25.  The permanent end to "Communion services" led by women (lay or Religious).  The entire concept of this is at odds with the traditional sacramental theology of the Church, not to mention the role of women.

    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: What would it take to resolve the crisis?
    « Reply #14 on: October 17, 2018, 04:21:01 PM »
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  • Simply, all you need is a true pope.