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Author Topic: +Vigano Urges Priests to Say the True Mass  (Read 1136 times)

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Online Stubborn

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Re: +Vigano Urges Priests to Say the True Mass
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2022, 11:07:50 AM »
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  • Pardon me Lad., not to step on your toes and not to derail, but this begs the question: Stubborn, is Bergoglio the pope of the “modernist religion” or is he the pope of the Catholic Church? He has yet to come “back” like Vigano has, so I seriously need you to explain your logic if he is, in fact, the pope of the Catholic Church.
    Simply....
    The pope is the pope. No faithful Catholic can deny the man is a Modernist heretic, which is to say in his ignorance, he is guilty of the sin of heresy, but he is the pope until he dies or resigns, or until a future pope judges otherwise.

    You only have to remember that all of the conciliar popes really and firmly believe as authentic Church teaching that whatever they teach in a Council and/or in unison with all the bishops is always automatically infallibly safe. Because they *really* believe this, they believe that they are in no danger of ever teaching heresy, not ever - why would they?
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Urges Priests to Say the True Mass
    « Reply #16 on: January 16, 2022, 11:17:57 AM »
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  • I'm sure if you ask him he will agree - if not now, just give him a little more time and he should.

    Simply, the NO is a modernist religion, modernism is the synthesis of all heresies, he was a NO Modernist bishop= he was a NO heretic bishop. I am not differentiating material/formal in my comment because now he is back, so it really does not matter.

    I don't even care about material/formal.  That's a pretty serious charge.  Could you find one heretical proposition he adhered to?  Find a quote from him from the past.  Basically, my point is that you've got nothing.  You assume that because he was a member of the NO hierarchy that he was a heretic.  That's nonsense.  At that point, you might as well be a dogmatic sedevacantist.  In fact, many people in the NO try to do things like apply a "heremeneutic of continuity".  +Vigano implies that he was in that camp.  There you do enough gymnastic to where you squeeze the square peg into the circular hole.  But the fact that they make the attempt clearly suggests they intend to adhere to the Church's Magisterium.


    Offline Francis Xavier

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    Re: +Vigano Urges Priests to Say the True Mass
    « Reply #17 on: January 16, 2022, 02:47:27 PM »
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  • Could you find one heretical proposition he adhered to?  Find a quote from him from the past. 

    "Viganò Says Francis Is A 'Non-Catholic Pope'" (the title of one of MHFM's video, also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Maria_Viganò). I think you could agree that this statement is heretical, and while it is more understandable if it comes from just a conservative Novus Ordo layman, it is less tolerable when it comes from a man purporting to be Archbishop. But I do agree with what you said:

    You assume that because he was a member of the NO hierarchy that he was a heretic.  That's nonsense.

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: +Vigano Urges Priests to Say the True Mass
    « Reply #18 on: January 16, 2022, 03:00:40 PM »
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  • I don't even care about material/formal.  That's a pretty serious charge.  Could you find one heretical proposition he adhered to?  Find a quote from him from the past.  Basically, my point is that you've got nothing.  You assume that because he was a member of the NO hierarchy that he was a heretic.  That's nonsense.  At that point, you might as well be a dogmatic sedevacantist.  In fact, many people in the NO try to do things like apply a "heremeneutic of continuity".  +Vigano implies that he was in that camp.  There you do enough gymnastic to where you squeeze the square peg into the circular hole.  But the fact that they make the attempt clearly suggests they intend to adhere to the Church's Magisterium.
    If you think that +50 years as a NO priest and bishop he wasn't a heretic, then I don't know what to tell you. No one ever heard of him up until recently since he has, by his own admission returned to the true faith, so I really don't care nor do I even want to know what he did or did not do while he was a bishop in the NO machine. 

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse