Author Topic: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary? (Read 9754 times)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #60 on:** October 06, 2018, 03:30:03 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 06, 2018, 03:15:35 PM

It takes a lack of faith not to realize that we receive and experience something greater than the entire created universe in Holy Communion. I go to receive God and not to see a building and some artwork.

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The natural tendency is to be lured by trappings but it's too easy for natural man to forget what real Faith is.
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I had a man tell me one time (he seemed to act like a Freemason but he was really just a Hollywood "Industry" worker) that he believed I was Catholic only because I enjoyed the incense, stained glass, Gregorian Chant, elaborate vestments and ritual of the Church. He was entirely oblivious to the concept of dogma and completely believed that everyone is free to think whatever they want to think about reality. He was convinced that I must get some kind of physical "high" out of going to Mass due to the trappings. There was absolutely nothing I could tell him that made a lick of difference. He had made up his mind.
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Curiously, since then, I have met Catholics who lean strongly in that direction, and they bemoan the loss of what the Church was regarding trappings of artwork, incense, vestments, etc. They recall their childhood when all those things worked together so well, and long for what has been lost. Usually they're people who are quite fond of watching movies, and know all the actors' names and what they're doing in their personal lives. They see someone in a movie and they make a comment about whom the actor married or what the actor playing the part did recently or when they had met him somewhere or whatever. They have the penchant of instinctively confusing the actor with the character the actor is playing in the film.

claudel · « **Reply #61 on:** October 06, 2018, 08:35:22 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat on October 06, 2018, 03:17:20 PM

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Do you have an emotional problem, claudel? Are you afraid of truth? Are you a cryptic Jєω infiltrator? Shut your incipient trap.

Thanks for your answer, Neil. Thanks especially for confirming, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance. When one or both are revealed for all to see, you resort, as in the quoted sentences above, to channeling Diane Feinstein and Christine Blasey Ford.

forlorn · « **Reply #62 on:** October 07, 2018, 09:01:45 AM »

Disgusting attempt at glossing over the suffering of Our Lord.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #63 on:** October 08, 2018, 12:38:33 AM »

Quote from: claudel on October 06, 2018, 08:35:22 PM

Thanks for your answer, Neil. Thanks especially for confirming, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance. When one or both are revealed for all to see, you resort, as in the quoted sentences above, to channeling Diane Feinstein and Christine Blasey Ford.

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You could do everyone a favor, claudel, by taking your smug pompous ignorance and contempt for the truth and go hide for a few years again like you've done in the past. Nobody would miss you, I'm sure. And have fun "channeling" your idols while you're gone.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #64 on:** October 08, 2018, 01:15:37 AM »

Quote from: forlorn on October 07, 2018, 09:01:45 AM

Disgusting attempt at glossing over the suffering of Our Lord.

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They've basically removed the crucifix and replaced it with something that ignorant or uniformed Catholics (like claudel for example) are fooled by, thinking a resurectifix or whatever is a "crucifix" (when it's not). Jєωs hate Our Lord and they're offended by real crucifixes, most of all by the INRI on the top, because it reminds them that their forefathers whom Jesus condemned in numerous instances, tried to have that same INRI removed but Pilate refused their demand. They killed Jesus (I Thes 2:15) and they accused Our Lord of casting out demons using the power of a demon (Matt. 9:34, 12:24, Mk. 3:22, Lk. 11:15). Rabbis still teach that to this day, and there are far more blasphemous things they teach to support their lies. If you mention these facts they say you're an "αnтι-ѕємιтє" (because you're saying something Jєωs don't like to hear), even though what you say is the truth. Jєωs hate the truth.
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Since the New SSPX is so huggy-kissy with Jєωs (no doubt recommended by Max Krah and his buddies), they don't want to APPEAR to be "anti-Semitic" (which means doing anything Jєωs don't like) therefore they remove their crucifixes and let the ignorant think that they still have crucifixes (when they really don't).
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The New SSPX has chosen not to offend the Jєωs (who offend Our Lord with abandon) and have chosen that over reminding anyone of the sufferings of Our Lord, which is exactly what any crucifix does.
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Our Lord warned us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees (Mt. 16:6).
But the NeoSSPX has chosen to ignore God instead.

Maria Regina · « **Reply #65 on:** October 08, 2018, 01:34:57 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 06, 2018, 09:28:21 AM

Agree. And how many comments have we heard recently about how some people don't like going to a hotel room for mass? Or they prefer a "nice" church over a rented conference room? I mean, is this mentality catholic? Isn't the Mass more important than where it's said? Sounds like some people have twisted materialistic-catholicism attitude or want a calvinist-rewarder-God religion. Explains why the sspx "looks down" on the resistance/independents - because they know most people care about image and self-respect than truth. Also explains why most will accept a deal with rome. So sad and short-sighted.

While I agree that the Mass is more important, my experience with hotels has been very bad. It would be better to celebrate the Mass in a large living room, a garage conversion, a rented tent, or even a store front. In one case, a company offered their huge lobby on Sundays as they did not work on Sundays, and their parking lot was wonderful -- enough to accommodate all of us.

In larger hotels, conference rooms are sometimes situated between other rooms where loud music is being played at wedding receptions or speeches are being given at various multi-level marketing programs like Amway. Plus there are those hotel patrons who scream and yell in the hallways, even opening the doors to do so. Sometimes I think these disruptions are deliberately done because they see the sign pointing to The Mass.

One simply cannot experience the Mass as a quiet time to commune with God in such an environment.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #66 on:** October 08, 2018, 01:55:17 AM »

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I've been to Mass in a hotel room where there were noises in nearby rooms that disrupted the Mass.
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I've also been in choir rehearsals when a siren's pitch threw everyone off and we had to wait for it to pass by.
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Some think the Roman catacombs must have been tough, but I have to wonder: they were probably very quiet.
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Which reminds me of a story. A class of elementary school students went into the Roman catacombs led by their teacher, who thought she knew what she was doing. The passageways are very long and have many unexpected turns, intersections and dark corridors. The teacher took them a little further than she was prepared for, and that's the last that was heard of them; the whole group has never been found. It's very easy to be confused on your way back out, as all it takes is one wrong turn and you'll think you're on the right path but then you're not sure, and going back to find where you went off course only gets you further into unknown areas.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #67 on:** October 08, 2018, 08:48:04 AM »

Quote

One simply cannot experience the Mass as a quiet time to commune with God in such an environment.

Maybe not but if it comes down to having mass or not, a noisy mass is INFINITELY better than no mass.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #68 on:** October 08, 2018, 08:50:46 AM »

Quote from: Maria Regina on October 08, 2018, 01:34:57 AM

One simply cannot experience the Mass as a quiet time to commune with God in such an environment.

Nobody ever said this was ideal. What we're saying is that going to a Mass that pleases God is exceedingly more important than the environment. I could probably go to an Orthodox liturgy and have it be more edifying this way than a Catholic hotel Mass, but I would certainly NOT be drawing closer to God in doing so, despite what the emotions would otherwise lead me to believe.

People are too caught up in thinking that they please God primarily through emotional attachments. Oh, I FEEL so close to God when I'm in an environment conducive to my emotions. But we please God in our WILL and in our INTELLECT. And the saints were very clear about this, that they got closest to God in the deepest parts of their soul precisely when they FELT the farthest away.

So, for instance, when my children were younger, I NEVER experienced Mass the same way I did when I was in the seminary. I was usually dealing with a fidgety youngsters, holding a crying baby or toddler, trying to keep them well behaved, etc. This caused me a lot of suffering. In times past, I was filled with edifying thoughts and sentiments and emotions. So, when did I come closer to God? Ironically, it was when I suffered through Mass doing my duty to God. Because the will and intellect have to be exerted MORE when the emotions are not drawing them along. It's easy to be pious when the heart is overflowing with emotion, but it requires a serious effort of the WILL to do it when all the outward stuff is militating against it. That's why the saints go through these "dark nights", because these strengthen their wills, and it's in our HIGHER faculties that we TRULY draw close to God, not in our emotions.

claudel · « **Reply #69 on:** October 08, 2018, 11:33:55 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat on October 08, 2018, 12:38:33 AM

Quote
[claudel wrote] Thanks for your answer, Neil. Thanks especially for confirming, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance. When one or both are revealed for all to see, you resort, as in the quoted sentences above, to channeling Diane Feinstein and Christine Blasey Ford.
You could do everyone a favor, claudel, by taking your smug pompous ignorance and contempt for the truth and go hide for a few years again like you've done in the past. Nobody would miss you, I'm sure. And have fun "channeling" your idols while you're gone.

Poor Neil! Even your insults are derivative.

On the little matter of the crucifix, I'm still waiting for you to name the applicable canon or rubric, old buddy.*

How about this: you supply the hard data, and I'll get out of your sandbox for at least two years. Is that a swell deal or what?!
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*Hint: you won't find relevant docuмents or other references in the Hot Air drawer of your files.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #70 on:** October 08, 2018, 11:55:58 AM »

While your point about the importance and significance of the INRI are well taken, I feel that it's a bit too far to say it's not a crucifix by definition if it lacks the INRI.

Matthew · « **Reply #71 on:** October 08, 2018, 12:58:07 PM »

Quote from: Maria Regina on October 08, 2018, 01:34:57 AM

While I agree that the Mass is more important, my experience with hotels has been very bad. It would be better to celebrate the Mass in a large living room, a garage conversion, a rented tent, or even a store front. In one case, a company offered their huge lobby on Sundays as they did not work on Sundays, and their parking lot was wonderful -- enough to accommodate all of us.

In larger hotels, conference rooms are sometimes situated between other rooms where loud music is being played at wedding receptions or speeches are being given at various multi-level marketing programs like Amway. Plus there are those hotel patrons who scream and yell in the hallways, even opening the doors to do so. Sometimes I think these disruptions are deliberately done because they see the sign pointing to The Mass.

I agree with this myself. I have experienced "humble Trad chapel" many times, and it's actually quite nice (I would describe it as "cozy"). But I have only attended Mass in a hotel room once while I was on vacation many years ago.

Better to have a permanent location for the traditional group to have Mass -- however humble -- than have to rent some facility.

Likewise, it's better for a family to live on 1/2 acre in a trailer home in the country than to live in a luxury apartment downtown with no yard or privacy.

Maria Regina · « **Reply #72 on:** October 08, 2018, 01:11:17 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 08, 2018, 08:50:46 AM

Nobody ever said this was ideal. What we're saying is that going to a Mass that pleases God is exceedingly more important than the environment. I could probably go to an Orthodox liturgy and have it be more edifying this way than a Catholic hotel Mass, but I would certainly NOT be drawing closer to God in doing so, despite what the emotions would otherwise lead me to believe.

Please do not even be tempted to go to an Orthodox liturgy, and then in effect be under the Moscow Patriarch (MP), the Ecuмenical Patriarch (EP), or the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). Modernists and Ecuмenists have invaded those Orthodox Churches.

Communist agents have also invaded their seminaries and have become Orthodox priests and bishops. Yes, they also have problems with pedophilia, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, adultery, and even murder in high places. There have been rumors or eye-witness reports that some priests and bishops in the MP have been murdered by other Orthodox priests and bishops for not doing the will of the KGB or the current state police.

Why do you think Francis hobnobs with the MP and the EP? They want to be one unholy perverted church -- the church of the Antichrist.

Some are saying that when the MP and EP join with Rome, then the message of Fatima will have been fulfilled. FALSE. FALSE. and FALSE.

Although OCA churches are found in many cities across the USA, they are no safe refuge as they have changed to the modern vernacular. I just did an Internet search. Some parishes are using "altar girls" -- need I say more? Avoid them like the plague.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #73 on:** October 08, 2018, 01:18:13 PM »

Quote from: Maria Regina on October 08, 2018, 01:11:17 PM

Please do not even be tempted to go to an Orthodox liturgy, and then in effect be under the Moscow Patriarch (MP), the Ecuмenical Patriarch (EP), or the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). Modernists and Ecuмenists have invaded those Orthodox Churches.

No, I would never go to a schismatic liturgy. Thank you for your concern. I was just trying to illustrate the point with a hypothetical example.

2Vermont · « **Reply #74 on:** October 08, 2018, 04:07:14 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 08, 2018, 11:55:58 AM

While your point about the importance and significance of the INRI are well taken, I feel that it's a bit too far to say it's not a crucifix by definition if it lacks the INRI.

Do crucifixes on rosaries all have the INRI? I don't think so.

Author Topic: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary? (Read 9754 times)

Neil Obstat

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

claudel

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

forlorn

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Neil Obstat

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Neil Obstat

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Maria Regina

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Neil Obstat

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Pax Vobis

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Ladislaus

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

claudel

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Ladislaus

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Matthew

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Maria Regina

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

Ladislaus

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?

2Vermont

Re: What kind of crucifix is THAT at the SSPX seminary?