Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Last Tradhican on February 07, 2018, 10:42:26 AM
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What is Immodest Dress to SSPX clergy?
In 8 years at my SSPX chapel, I have not heard a peep or a sermon about immodest dress as the young girls in the parish have become women during those years and matured physically. A 3 to 9 old girl in short shorts, spandex leggings or yoga pants, skinny jeans, tennis skirt, or bikini is not the same as a 16 year old wearing them. Yet parents see nothing wrong with their 3-9 year olds wearing all or any of those immodest outfits in public. What is going to happen when they mature, are they magically going to stop wearing revealing clothing? Well, they will not, as their own parents bought them those clothes when they were children, the parents do no see anything wrong with those clothes and so the teens continue the trend, eventually becoming parents of the future SSPXers.
Of course, the teens do not wear those clothes to the SSPX chapel, but they will wear other provocative clothes which of course their parents do not see anything wrong with. They will “stretch the rules”, by wearing skin tight dresses that cover down to above the knee, with barely a sleeve, actually sleeveless plus 1”. They wear this skin tight t-shirts and sweaters, anything to reveal. Anything to reveal, because that is what they have learned from their parents is the way to attract men.
Where are the sermons from the SSPX priests? ZERO.
A few months ago I was visiting an SSPX chapel talking to someone outside before mass, when a family walked by us into the chapel. The father, in his 40’s, was wearing skin tight skinny jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers, the mother, same age, was wearing a denim miniskirt, t-shirt and sneakers, and the 18 year old daughter was in a mini-skirt and tank top with the belly exposed. I commented to the person I was talking with, that they must be new to tradition, that the priests will teach them. I was told by the person that he doubts it, as that was the brother of the chapel prior who was visiting from France.
Here is the lesson I teach my daughters from the time they start noticing boys:
Women erroneously learn from other women that their beauty and value comes from the attraction they can bring to themselves from men. They are taught that the way to attract men is to dress provocatively and to flirt. In poor countries this is the way a woman can become rich overnight, however, it is like the lottery, 99+% of the women will lose and will spend an entire life of misery, always wondering why they go from man to man, till their grave.
Once a young girl is infected with this mindset, they are caught for life.
Practically all women have this decease. It is the foundation of all immodesty and immorality.
Those that have eyes to see, let them see.
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Your daughters are very blessed for having their father teaching them about life.
The true value of a woman is intrinsically connected to her chastity.
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While I haven’t heard a direct sermon on modesty from an SSPX priest, the priest emailed all parents regarding the dress of girls period, which has been quite poor. They’ve also published dress codes in the bulletins and mentioned it in sermons.
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Is there not a dress code guide posted on the doors of the chapel? There was at the chapel I went to.
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In my experience, the people in the SSPX are not too different in certain ways from the rest of the secular world. And many of these are now in the "Resistance" as well. The older priests have given sermons about it, both when in and then out of the SSPX, but many people do not pay attention to the priests soft chidding.
I also think it is mainly the fault of the fathers, it seems to me that some just don't know how to deal with their girls, or tend to spoil them outright. Soft sermons are not going to help either, you have to tell the girl AND the parents that certain things are not acceptable.
I remember one Sunday we had a certain visiting priest and he got on the subject of what is propper dress. After Mass one of the older girls said "I didn't know short sleeves were a problem?" (I mean the sort of 'half-short sleeve' on some cotton shirts for females). And all I could think to myself was "How could you not know? Did you really not understand what the priest were saying in their sermons over the past X number of years?" As said before, sometimes you just have to be blunt. And I think sometimes this is especially true with some teenagers.
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Is there not a dress code guide posted on the doors of the chapel? There was at the chapel I went to.
Yes there is a dress code, but it means nothing unless it is enforced and people are taught what it means by examples. The dress code in the church really means nothing, if parents and their children do not live it outside of the church in the world. A woman can dress perfectly for mass for 2 hours on Sunday then go all week in short shorts, yoga pants, bikini top etc. Also, a person could dress perfectly all the time and still be a flirt and loose with morals.
It is all a package, not just about the dress code posted on the wall at a church.
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I also think it is mainly the fault of the fathers,
It is not the fathers that teach the girls that their beauty and self esteem comes from getting the attention of boys, it is the mothers that pass this error on. Men always tend to blame themselves and in this case, they are secondarily at fault for not correcting the lie.
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Is there not a dress code guide posted on the doors of the chapel? There was at the chapel I went to.
The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
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It is not the fathers that teach the girls that their beauty and self esteem comes from getting the attention of boys, it is the mothers that pass this error on. Men always tend to blame themselves and in this case, they are secondarily at fault for not correcting the lie.
That may be so, but I have met girls who put importance on what their father thinks/says. Even my own mother was such a girl in her youth. If a father would simply say "You shouldn't do that for X reason", I think it would make a difference. My own father would simply say "Your skirt is too short" and for the most part my sisters don't wear inappropriate things unless it's maybe all they have for the moment - even then it just comes above the knee.
Maybe other girls are not so... fillial? But I'm certain that amongst those I know, things would be different if the father(s) would just say something.
Education amongst Trads is seriously lacking on all sides.
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The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
Exactly. Do not expect a 1/2 hour sermon on Sunday to change a life that spends 167.5 hours a week in a home that allows immodest dressing and flirting to attract men.
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Last Tradhican wrote: It is not the fathers that teach the girls that their beauty and self esteem comes from getting the attention of boys, it is the mothers that pass this error on. Men always tend to blame themselves and in this case, they are secondarily at fault for not correcting the lie.
That may be so, but I have met girls who put importance on what their father thinks/says. Even my own mother was such a girl in her youth. If a father would simply say "You shouldn't do that for X reason", I think it would make a difference. My own father would simply say "Your skirt is too short" and for the most part my sisters don't wear inappropriate things unless it's maybe all they have for the moment - even then it just comes above the knee.
Maybe other girls are not so... fillial? But I'm certain that amongst those I know, things would be different if the father(s) would just say something.
Education amongst Trads is seriously lacking on all sides.
I did not excuse the fathers, you are correct 100%. What I stressed is the it is the mothers that TEACH the error, the lie to the girls. The father must correct the mother before the children are old enough to hear. It is a lifelong fight for the father with his wife and daughters, more so with the wife because she is already infected with the decease. It is up to the father to teach his girls that self esteem and beauty comes from within and not from the reaction of men to them.
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It is a lifelong fight for the father with his wife and daughters, more so with the wife because she is already infected with the decease. It is up to the father to teach his girls that self esteem and beauty comes from within and not from the reaction of men to them.
If it is a lifelong battle for the fathers of the family, it is also a lifelong fight for the priests who oversee the spiritual lives of families. What does it matter if a father or a priest teaches from the mountain tops that the Vatican II church is of the devil, the popes are imposters and the Novus Ordo is a false "mass", if the daughters lose their souls because they were infected with the decease that their self esteem and beauty comes from the reaction of men to them?
One sermon a year just won't do it.
Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
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The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
Bingo!
If the father of the home is not teaching and enforcing the rule, all corrections outside the home will go unheeded...
And, more importantly, the men of today are slobs... If the father doesn't behave in an exemplary manner, his children will follow his bad examples, regardless of what priests and others may say or demonstrate outside the home.
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Many people tune out sermons.
I find not only clothing to be a problem but also hair color, makeup, Jєωelry, and language. I lump it all together in the term "immodesty".
Causes:
TV
Fashion
Parents wanting to be friends to their children
Sunday only Catholics
$$ (donations may fall)
Social media (have you SEEN the photos some post?)
Vulgar talk between boys
Testosterone
Solutions:
Parents step up to the plate and do their job
Parents not pay for immodesty
Parents not allow immodest items in their home
Cut off TV
Cut off social media
Teach boys propriety
Parents of proper children should keep their children away from such immodest people and their families.
A priest is not a parent. It is NOT his job.
However, as a last resort, a priest could refuse Holy Communion to such females since, by their actions, they clearly lead others to sin. One priest did at one chapel I attended, and the fashions changed overnight.
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A priest is not a parent. It is NOT his job.
I agree with what you wrote except I disagree with this part above, for it is ALSO his job.
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The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
I remember I found some videos on youtube of the nearby sspx chapel I was anticipating going to. They were good videos shot during mass of the chant and so on, and the young lady talked so highly of the sspx and the latin mass. But, then she also had videos on her channel of her promoting and doing those high speed bun burning ab crunching beach bod workouts with techno music while in spandex. I guess she is a good example of this hypocrisy.
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Many people tune out sermons.
I find not only clothing to be a problem but also hair color, makeup, Jєωelry, and language. I lump it all together in the term "immodesty".
Causes:
TV
Fashion
Parents wanting to be friends to their children
Sunday only Catholics
$$ (donations may fall)
Social media (have you SEEN the photos some post?)
Vulgar talk between boys
Testosterone
I would not blame the problem of immodesty to testosterone levels!
If anything, it is the fall of the patriarchal system and the rise of Feminism which is cause for it. Under the patriarchal system, when girls were passed from fathers to husbands, loose women were seen of practically no value. They were shamed and completely ostracized from polite society. No decent girl wanted to be seen as a harlot, good for nothing but the temporal (and very momentary) release of men's lust. Girls were taught that their precious value was directly connected to their chastity. They were taught by the men in their lives to value themselves.
The role models for girls have drastically shifted in the last decades and add to this the epidemy of single motherhood (so not longer men are teaching but only foolish women are passing their errors for four generations now):
Patriarchy = women's role model was that of a chaste and virtuous woman, capable of bringing and nurturing children, and taking good care of husband and household.
Feminism = women's role model is the empowered, "strong and independent", masculinized slut who is in charge of her body and sɛҳuąƖity (meaning having license to sleep around recklessly, get rid of unwanted pregnancies, and dress herself as not even prostitutes of the past would have dreamed of). No worth at all in that.
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It is a lifelong fight for the father with his wife and daughters, more so with the wife because she is already infected with the decease.
Your statement, right there, may be the root of the entire problem.
Why would a Catholic man marry such a woman?
If men wouldn't marry such ladies, there would be no fight between husband and wife over immodesty. There are plenty of modest girls to consider. The young men need to keep their testosterone in check and make marriage a project to solve, looking at the pros and cons of the available candidates, taking the counsel of his parents and spiritual advisor.
if more young men behaved this way towards marriage perhaps young ladies would become more humble and modest than the next young lady. Wouldn't THAT be something?!
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The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
Exactly this. I know of several young women who wear pants during the week, and skirts for Sunday morning. I know of at least one who is married, obviously it doesn’t bother her husband whether she dresses like a man or not. My wife neither desires that look like a man, and neither do I. I married a WOMAN after all. I see these women around wearing jeans, and near buzz cut short hair, and what man honestly would be attracted to a women who looks like a man?
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It is a lifelong fight for the father with his wife and daughters, more so with the wife because she is already infected with the decease.
Your statement, right there, may be the root of the entire problem. Why would a Catholic man marry such a woman?
If men wouldn't marry such ladies, there would be no fight between husband and wife over immodesty. There are plenty of modest girls to consider. The young men need to keep their testosterone in check and make marriage a project to solve, looking at the pros and cons of the available candidates, taking the counsel of his parents and spiritual advisor.
if more young men behaved this way towards marriage perhaps young ladies would become more humble and modest than the next young lady. Wouldn't THAT be something?!
The root of the problem is that the mothers and daughters have been taught that the way to attract men is to dress provocatively and to flirt, that their beauty and worth are judged by the men they entice. That system works in the world because men are easily attracted, however, it is another thing to keep them.
Suffice it to say that a man will go with a light socket, if it solves his problem, his attraction has nothing to do with beauty. Fathers need to teach this to their daughters, but scarcely any will, because they do not see a problem in the mindset that the way to attract men is to dress provocatively and to flirt . Priests today are no different, they do not see a problem.
Why do men marry such women? They marry them because they are ignorant and they do not see a problem, they are blind just like the mothers and daughters, this is the way it has always been in the world.
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There are plenty of modest girls to consider.
There are plenty of girls around a church that act immodest.
Anyhow, it is God who sends us our wives and husbands, all we have to do is take care of our souls and let God sort the other part out for us.
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There are plenty of girls around a church that act immodest.
Anyhow, it is God who sends us our wives and husbands, all we have to do is take care of our souls and let God sort the other part out for us.
This is true. And I must say it is embarrassing to all females!
But it has to start somewhere. Perhaps with parents stepping up to the plate and keeping their children away from families with floosies? My children now know how to spot a floosie and a loser and stay away.
And maybe with the fine young men looking for fine young ladies and not settling for anyone less? After all, there are more choices for the men than there are for the ladies.
Are you sure we always cooperate with God's plan for us? Do you think God wants fine young men marrying floosies, or fine young ladies marrying losers? Does that help our souls? I don't think it does...
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I did a little research.
What is immodest dress to the sspx clergy?
Apparently not these:
Bare shoulders
https://goo.gl/images/LyMvAk
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Bare back
http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/sspx-marriages-are-incontestable-29003
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Slacks
https://goo.gl/images/wn95kG
(Moderator note: This is not an SSPX chapel. It is the ironically named "St. Pius X chapel" which is owned by the Diocese and offers the Indult.
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Length
http://fsspx.ie/en/news-events/calendar/young-adult-outing-19013
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Sleeves, Length
https://goo.gl/images/cddj55
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Sleeves
http://sspxkenya.blogspot.com/2015/10/marriage-at-holy-cross-church.html?m=1
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Veil, Sleeves
https://goo.gl/images/i8yLKH
http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/situation-sspx-marriages-today-part-3-canon-law-series-marriage
https://goo.gl/images/EJfHcE
https://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2012/05/first-communions-at-st-vincents-sspx.html?m=1
http://archives.sspx.org/chapel_news/2012/kansas_city_mo_5-9-2012/FirstCommunion29.jpg
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Veil
https://akacatholic.com/sspx-communique-on-marriage-faculties/
https://goo.gl/images/Q4BWji
https://goo.gl/images/oQf2qS
https://goo.gl/images/TgtCh6
https://angeluspress.org/collections/religious-goods/products/st-angelus-first-communion-veil
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FYI - your "slacks" picture isn't an SSPX church, it's NO.
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FYI - your "slacks" picture isn't an SSPX church, it's NO.
Thank you.
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But it has to start somewhere. Perhaps with parents stepping up to the plate and keeping their children away from families with floosies? My children now know how to spot a floosie and a loser and stay away.
It has to start with recognizing the error that females have been taught by the world to gage their own beauty and worth by the response of men to them. It has to start with recognizing that attracting men by dressing provocatively, flirting, and more will only lead to a life of being passed on from one man to another (the proof is all around and among us).
It is the duty of the parents to teach this to their children. It is the duty of the priests to teach this to the parents.
How is it applied in detail? - As you said, one way is to keep the boys and girls away from the families with "floosies". There are many other ways, because the devil has many years of experience attacking the family fort. The fort the parents build up has to be complete and constantly guarded, monitored, adjusted and improved. A fort with four high thick walls, and a draw bridge, is useless if the gate is left open. Following the nanalogy, I believe that most "trad" parents have a fort with three walls.
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Anyhow, it is God who sends us our wives and husbands, all we have to do is take care of our souls and let God sort the other part out for us.
Are you sure we always cooperate with God's plan for us? Do you think God wants fine young men marrying floosies, or fine young ladies marrying losers? Does that help our souls? I don't think it does...
Of course God would not send us a floosy, they are of the devil. The point I was making was that God always sends us what is best for us, we just have to take care of our souls and not worry about "finding a mate" and forcing the process. Sometimes, the best for the soul is no marriage, specially today.
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I did a little research. What is immodest dress to the sspx clergy? Apparently not these:
Excellent contribution, a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks!
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In France, it is not better than what you are describing here: most women wear skirts above the knee, in a standing position. Now, it goes without saying that Christian and natural modesty is much more demanding. Women have to wear skirts that cover the knee in the seated position.
One day, a Capuchin of Morgon was present in the chapel where I use to attend Mass, and he made the remark to some faithful, because he had noticed the immodesty of dresses. Sadly, the same can be said of all other chapels.
Those girls remind me of my pagan past, when I made bodybuilding and wore skin-tight clothes to show my muscles. The first difference is that I was a pagan while they claim to be Catholics, and the second difference is that it is much easier for a woman to attract men than the opposite...
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There are plenty of modest girls to consider.
Most of the time, there is barely a single young woman wearing a decent dress. At least it is my experience here in France.
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Sometimes, the best for the soul is no marriage, specially today.
So very true.
How wonderful would it be if everyone went into religious life...
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Most of the time, there is barely a single young woman wearing a decent dress. At least it is my experience here in France.
How awful.
Week by week is is becoming worse and worse here in the USA.
The priests who allow such should be ashamed.
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The SSPX needs to give a sermon like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7chsI0iLk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7chsI0iLk)
Fr. Michael Rodriguez gave a powerful sermon, "Modesty, Salvation and Eternity", on the virtue of purity, practicing modesty, and the connection with the message of Our Lady of Fatima.
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Can't say as I have ever noticed a reluctance to speak about modesty, despite our local priests being transferred every couple years.
Not saying it couldn't be an issue elsewhere, but we have had 3 priests since mid-2012, and they have all mentioned proper attire at Mass.
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^^^^Same here.
The last priest we had gave a series of very good sermons over 8 - 10 weeks on modesty. The chapel needed it too, and it's been working. We're lucky.
The current priest said he plans to give sermons on only the sacraments over the rest of the year - so far they've been pretty good too.
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Where is Fr. Michael Rodriguez now? Does anyone know? I haven't yet looked at the above sermon nor heard anything else about him for a couple of years now.
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The SSPX needs to give a sermon like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7chsI0iLk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7chsI0iLk)
Fr. Michael Rodriguez gave a powerful sermon, "Modesty, Salvation and Eternity", on the virtue of purity, practicing modesty, and the connection with the message of Our Lady of Fatima.
Where is fr. Rodriguez and how may I get in touch with him?
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Where is Fr. Michael Rodriguez now? Does anyone know? I haven't yet looked at the above sermon nor heard anything else about him for a couple of years now.
Check the newly rebranded Fatima Center.
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Can't say as I have ever noticed a reluctance to speak about modesty, despite our local priests being transferred every couple years.
Not saying it couldn't be an issue elsewhere, but we have had 3 priests since mid-2012, and they have all mentioned proper attire at Mass
When they do speak about it, their words have no strength. They don't preach so as to urge people to mend their ways.
Padre Pio scourged immodest women with his white rope, and he refused the sacraments to them. Our priests have not the courage to do so, they claim that it would cause departures. One day, Abbot Régis de Caqueray wrote an article about modesty, but the text was weak and feminist. That's an effeminate mentality.
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Where is Fr. Michael Rodriguez now? Does anyone know? I haven't yet looked at the above sermon nor heard anything else about him for a couple of years now.
Try here: http://svfonline.org/ (http://svfonline.org/)
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When they do speak about it, their words have no strength. They don't preach so as to urge people to mend their ways.
Padre Pio scourged immodest women with his white rope, and he refused the sacraments to them. Our priests have not the courage to do so, they claim that it would cause departures. One day, Abbot Régis de Caqueray wrote an article about modesty, but the text was weak and feminist. That's an effeminate mentality.
Very good point. They rarely speak about modesty, chastity, and purity, and when they do it is as if they were forced to do it against their will.
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When they do speak about it, their words have no strength. They don't preach so as to urge people to mend their ways.
Padre Pio scourged immodest women with his white rope, and he refused the sacraments to them. Our priests have not the courage to do so, they claim that it would cause departures. One day, Abbot Régis de Caqueray wrote an article about modesty, but the text was weak and feminist. That's an effeminate mentality.
That is why Padre Pio had a following from all over the world and the SSPX priests can hardly hold onto their congregation in the neighborhood.
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Quote from: AlligatorDicax (https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?topic=48253.msg599392#msg599392) on Tue Mar 13 2018 23:35:55 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Your sentence was very confusing as you posted it: It appeared to contain an editing error that wasn't detected before posting, e.g., having some necessary words deleted by mistake. You can't expect readers to understand your use of an entire clause as a compound adjective (must you even try?) when you fail to insert the hyphens (e.g., as in green above) that grammatically change that clause into a compound adjective that's correctly parsable. Much better yet, how about "Latina women are the group most affected by this mind-set of dressing provocatively to attract men"?
Ugh! Young Latina women, of whom there is no shortage in Central Florida, seem to consider obesity a characteristic to be flaunted instead of disguised, unlike women of nonLatina cultures in the U.S.A. I'm fascinated that your, um, model displays what might be called platform buttocks: a characteristic that I've been told is typically negroid. Altho' from the colonization history of the New World, we should not be surprised that such genes would manifest in various Latinas. Pregnancy and recovery from the weight-gain once routinely recommended by physicians during pregnancies seems not to explain the majority of the obese young Latinas. Perhaps if the young Latinas I am routinely sighting from day-to-day were of their "educated" class, e.g., college coeds or degree-bearing professionals, their attitudes and my overall impressions might be different?
We in Central Florida are enduring the arrival of on the order of 100,000 Puerto Ricans over the past 6 months (numbers waved around range loosely from 1/2 to 3 times that round number), blamed on the devastation caused by Hurricane Maria, but to keep this on topic, I expect their clothing styles to be more of the same. Perhaps you're getting some of our overflow?
Maybe your photo would be worthwhile in a CathInfo topic from 2 months ago in a different subforum:
• <https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/40-percent-of-u-s-adults-are-obese/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/40-percent-of-u-s-adults-are-obese/)>?
From my perspective here, the "40%" is rolling-on-the-floor-laughably low as an estimate.
So with all that "bouncing" from man to man, when do those Latinas find time to settle into a validCatholic marriage during which they produce "their daughters"? Shouldn't spinsterhood act as a genealogical dead-end for Latinas who teach "the same error" [†] that left them as spinsters?
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Note †: You are wearing blinders that prevent you from considering another habit that I've been told Latina mothers teach to daughters; it could be a severe error in treatment of any man who has self-respect, thus killing a romantic relationship that might otherwise lead to a Catholic marriage. But it doesn't fit your agenda, and I concede that it would be off-topic.
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Quote from: AlligatorDicax (https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?topic=48253.msg599392#msg599392) on Tue Mar 13 2018 23:35:55 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Your sentence was very confusing as you posted it: It appeared to contain an editing error that wasn't detected before posting, e.g., having some necessary words deleted by mistake. You can't expect readers to understand your use of an entire clause as a compound adjective (must you even try?) when you fail to insert the hyphens (e.g., as in green above) that grammatically change that clause into a compound adjective that's correctly parsable. Much better yet, how about "Latina women are the group most affected by this mind-set of dressing provocatively to attract men"?
Ugh! Young Latina women, of whom there is no shortage in Central Florida, seem to consider obesity a characteristic to be flaunted instead of disguised, unlike women of nonLatina cultures in the U.S.A. I'm fascinated that your, um, model displays what might be called platform buttocks: a characteristic that I've been told is typically negroid. Altho' from the colonization history of the New World, we should not be surprised that such genes would manifest in various Latinas. Pregnancy and recovery from the weight-gain once routinely recommended by physicians during pregnancies seems not to explain the majority of the obese young Latinas. Perhaps if the young Latinas I am routinely sighting from day-to-day were of their "educated" class, e.g., college coeds or degree-bearing professionals, their attitudes and my overall impressions might be different?
We in Central Florida are enduring the arrival of on the order of 100,000 Puerto Ricans over the past 6 months (numbers waved around range loosely from 1/2 to 3 times that round number), blamed on the devastation caused by Hurricane Maria, but to keep this on topic, I expect their clothing styles to be more of the same. Perhaps you're getting some of our overflow?
Maybe your photo would be worthwhile in a CathInfo topic from 2 months ago in a different subforum:
• <https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/40-percent-of-u-s-adults-are-obese/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/40-percent-of-u-s-adults-are-obese/)>?
From my perspective here, the "40%" is rolling-on-the-floor-laughably low as an estimate.
So with all that "bouncing" from man to man, when do those Latinas find time to settle into a validCatholic marriage during which they produce "their daughters"? Shouldn't spinsterhood act as a genealogical dead-end for Latinas who teach "the same error" [†] that left them as spinsters?
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Note †: You are wearing blinders that prevent you from considering another habit that I've been told Latina mothers teach to daughters; it could be a severe error in treatment of any man who has self-respect, thus killing a romantic relationship that might otherwise lead to a Catholic marriage. But it doesn't fit your agenda, and I concede that it would be off-topic.
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Quote from: AlligatorDicax (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/slow-boiling-the-mass-fashions-of-women/msg599392/#msg599392) on Tue Mar 13 2018 23:35:55 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
So with all that "bouncing" from man to man, when do those Latinas find time to settle into a valid Catholic marriage during which they produce "their daughters"? Shouldn't spinsterhood act as a genealogical dead-end for Latinas who teach "the same error" [†] that left them as spinsters?
They bounce from man to man having children with each one as they go along.
A valid Catholic marriage? Maybe one along the way somewhere, then divorce and continuation from man to man from there.
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Quote from: AlligatorDicax on Yesterday at 10:35:55 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/slow-boiling-the-mass-fashions-of-women/msg599392/#msg599392)
Note †: You are wearing blinders that prevent you from considering another habit that I've been told Latina mothers teach to daughters; it could be a severe error in treatment of any man who has self-respect, thus killing a romantic relationship that might otherwise lead to a Catholic marriage.
I do not understand what you wrote there, please explain it in more detail.
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Can't say as I have ever noticed a reluctance to speak about modesty, despite our local priests being transferred every couple years.
Not saying it couldn't be an issue elsewhere, but we have had 3 priests since mid-2012, and they have all mentioned proper attire at Mass.
Our priest, we've had for several years, hasn't talked about modesty since he arrived. The ones prior talked only about female modesty. It is frustrating to only hear women beaten up. Men are immodest, too, with their shorts above the knee, no shirts swimming, tight shirts, tight jeans, tight slacks, white slacks.
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It is frustrating to only hear women beaten up. Men are immodest, too, with their shorts above the knee, no shirts swimming, tight shirts, tight jeans, tight slacks, white slacks.
Men's immodesty is more their problem than a temptation for women. It is their problem because they will be tempting effeminate men.
See the OP:
A few months ago I was visiting an SSPX chapel talking to someone outside before mass, when a family walked by us into the chapel. The father, in his 40’s, was wearing skin tight skinny jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers.....I commented to the person I was talking with, that they must be new to tradition, that the priests will teach them. I was told by the person that he doubts it, as that person was visiting from France and was the brother of the chapel prior.
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Men's immodesty is more their problem than a temptation for women. It is their problem because they will be tempting effeminate men.
See the OP:
You forget that female immodesty tempts both manly men and manly women. So, too, does male immodesty tempt effeminate men and feminine women.
Remember that the first time your daughter brings home a potential spouse wearing white slacks or skinny jeans.
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Our priest, we've had for several years, hasn't talked about modesty since he arrived. The ones prior talked only about female modesty. It is frustrating to only hear women beaten up. Men are immodest, too, with their shorts above the knee, no shirts swimming, tight shirts, tight jeans, tight slacks, white slacks.
Down here in the South, I've heard the priests reprimand the men along with the women. It's been stated men should at a minimum wear dress slacks that are loose and not form fitting. Long sleeved shirts are a must if you are an adult and also a pair of black shoes. You can get a cheap pair from Wal-Mart or even find a nice pair at thrift shops, especially the Mexican ones.
To be honest, I started wearing long sleeved shirts to Mass around 12 or 13 simply BECAUSE it made me feel more like a grown up.
I don't think I'v ever seen anyone wear white slacks... What's wrong with them? They wouldn't be any different then black ones except for color, no? Maybe I'll google that too.
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I don't think I'v ever seen anyone wear white slacks... What's wrong with them? They wouldn't be any different then black ones except for color, no? Maybe I'll google that too.
Google searches are great for these kinds of questions.
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Down here in the South, I've heard the priests reprimand the men along with the women. It's been stated men should at a minimum wear dress slacks that are loose and not form fitting. Long sleeved shirts are a must if you are an adult and also a pair of black shoes.
I googled searched but didn't come up with any that were reasonably decent - either too tight, too casual or plain scuffy.
But why must men wear black shoes?
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I googled searched but didn't come up with any that were reasonably decent - either too tight, too casual or plain scuffy.
But why must men wear black shoes?
I guess it's just standard. When someone says "casual" or uses the term "church clothes" that's what comes to mind : Slacks, long sleeved dress-shirt and black dress-shoes. The priest I have in mind probably just said "pair of dress-y shoes" and the idea as I described it was/is probably an error on tge part of my memory... But I know for a fact and remember clear as day that Long sleeves and pants that are not tight are mandatory.
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What is this thread about? In short, it is spelled out in the quote below. To the mothers and young girls who have been duped all these years, open your eyes, and see for the first time in your lives, and change your ways or you are doomed to misery the rest of your life.
Here is the lesson I teach my daughters from the time they start noticing boys:
Women erroneously learn from other women that their beauty and value comes from the attraction they can bring to themselves from men. They are taught that the way to attract men is to dress provocatively and to flirt. In poor countries this is the way a woman can become rich overnight, however, it is like the lottery, 99+% of the women will lose and will spend an entire life of misery, always wondering why they go from man to man, till their grave.
Once a young girl is infected with this mindset, they are caught for life.
Practically all women have this decease. It is the foundation of all immodesty and immorality.
Those that have eyes to see, let them see.
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The problem is that many people would dress modestly only for Sunday Mass. Then, you see the same people during the week dressed as the rest of the secular world (basically in grossly immodest rags). They are practically indistinguishable. Unless the parents insist heavily on keeping the Traditional Catholic modesty standards at home, this seems to be the norm.
Sermons and dress codes do help, of course; but unless the modesty is practiced and reinforced at home, and since infancy, they will not be sufficient. There needs to be a deep contrast between the standards of the Catholic home, and the worldly fashions, especially nowadays, when society has lost all grip on chastity, decorum, and even reality.
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What I have seen happening is children coming to Sunday Mass with their parents, everyone dressed properly, but immediately after Mass some certain children go into the restroom to change into skimpy "play clothes" because they have a specific activity planned shortly. When I asked them or their parents about it they have assured me there's no other place to go for changing unless it's a McDonald's or a gas station and you know what you might find there (bums doing the same thing?). After a few weeks of this it gets more widespread and other children start changing clothes after Mass just for the fun of it.
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You can be pretty sure they wear the same skimpy "play clothes" all week long.
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I do not understand what you wrote there, please explain it in more detail.
For reasons that aren't obvious, your posting from which I extracted your quote above omits my closing sentence in my note as I originally posted it. Which was not in your "there":
But it doesn't fit your agenda, and I concede that it would be off-topic.
Last Tradhican deserves to be commended for accurately crediting my posted words to me with a link to the topic in which I originally posted them, and then alerting me via private message. So I'm writing this response merely coldly instead of heatedly & angrily:
I refuse to accept any kind of obligation to answer any questions about a posting of mine that someone else copied-&-pasted without my permission into any other topic (e.g., this SSPX-focused one) than the one in which I originally posted it. It would impose an unwelcome practical requirement on me to spend my own time familiarizing myself with the content of an entirely new sequence of postings in which I had no interest.
I especially refuse when what was pasted herein was drowned in such a mass of cluelessly excessive formatting that was newly shovelled in by the copying member, like that for which MS-Word has been justifiably criticized [‡]. That being a topic in which I had already clearly written in that same posting that I considered the answer lately sought by Last Tradhican to be off-topic. And I hate seeing C.I. members derail topics whose scope was clearly delineated and quite satisfactory as originated.
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Note ‡: Most obnoxiously, new formatting--meaning formatting not perpetrated by me--that sets & unsets text ‘size’ ‘font’, not-quite-black ‘color’, &c., before and after every [bleepin'] sentence and other visual-layout constructs. MS-Word used to embed that kind of formatting abuse into HTML that was created directly from MS-Word docuмents (i.e., "Save to HTML"); the designers, programmers, and any approving managers of those implementations should have all been lined up and shot!
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From my real world observations, the Prostitute shoes as mass attire is just the tip of the iceberg, and a big red flag that those wearing them are dressing the rest of the week like everyone in the street, wearing short shorts, spandex leggings as pants, yoga pants, tight blue jeans, tight tank tops with belly exposed.........
This is what I have personally seen because I see the same people here and there during the week.
These are the new generation of mothers in the SSPX and their children, mothers under like 45 and their daughters.
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In addition to what you mentioned above about what you teach your daughters, I tell them that the KIND of man they will "attract" with this type of behavior WILL ultimately make them unhappy. If they are shallow enough to go after a woman who puts herself on display like that, you need only wait until you get a bit older or put on some weight (perhaps from having babies), and this guy, once he finds you less physically attractive, will likely move on to someone younger and prettier and, I can add, with this thread, whose prostitute heels are just a little bit taller than yours.
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From my real world observations, the Prostitute shoes as mass attire is just the tip of the iceberg, and a big red flag that those wearing them are dressing the rest of the week like everyone in the street, wearing short shorts, spandex leggings as pants, yoga pants, tight blue jeans, tight tank tops with belly exposed.........
This is what I have personally seen because I see the same people here and there during the week.
These are the new generation of mothers in the SSPX and their children, mothers under like 45 and their daughters.
I have never heard an SSPX priest speak about this problem and if I see "the same people" during the week, the priests see them too. I am talking here about what these female parishioners are wearing all week outside of mass, and the priests see it the same as I do. Not a word from the pulpit ever.
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I have never heard an SSPX priest speak about this problem and if I see "the same people" during the week, the priests see them too. I am talking here about what these female parishioners are wearing all week outside of mass, and the priests see it the same as I do. Not a word from the pulpit ever.
Same here at my local SSPX parish. Is silence approval? Or is silence due to fear? Or is this the price of wanting to be regularized (no longer condemning common sin)? It seems like the SSPX is trying to keep silent so as immodesty becomes a custom, and then they can say "custom is the norm". If they want to prove me wrong, then enforce the modesty standards!
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Sometimes silence is just plain exasperation. Try another route.
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Same here at my local SSPX parish. Is silence approval? Or is silence due to fear? Or is this the price of wanting to be regularized (no longer condemning common sin)? It seems like the SSPX is trying to keep silent so as immodesty becomes a custom, and then they can say "custom is the norm". If they want to prove me wrong, then enforce the modesty standards!
This looks in every respect like 1965. Those that lived it will know what I mean.
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Sometimes silence is just plain exasperation. Try another route.
Sometimes silence is doing absolutely nothing.