Author Topic: What are the chances of Williamson reuniting with SSPX? (Read 9527 times)

Moorslayer · « **on:** September 16, 2015, 04:30:13 PM »

So I'm a recent convert to Catholicism in an SSPX parish, in part because I admire Bishop Williamson's courage. I was sad to discover that he was removed from the Society.

Do you think that when the next Superior General elections happen, and if Bishop Fellay is not reelected, does Bishop Williamson have a good chance at being reinstated in the Society with a position of power/influence within the Society?

What are the other 2 Bishop's opinions on Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson?

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the inside information of how the culture of the SSPX leadership works?

I just want a clear understanding of the situation, because I'm very new to this.

Thank you.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2015, 04:46:58 PM »

Quote from: Moorslayer

Do you think that when the next Superior General elections happen, and if Bishop Fellay is not reelected, does Bishop Williamson have a good chance at being reinstated in the Society with a position of power/influence within the Society?

Very unlikely. It wasn't Bp Fellay alone that decided to exclude Bp Williamson from the General Chapter meeting, and those (mostly) same voters will decide who the next Superior is going to be.

Moorslayer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2015, 05:01:10 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Very unlikely. It wasn't Bp Fellay alone that decided to exclude Bp Williamson from the General Chapter meeting, and those (mostly) same voters will decide who the next Superior is going to be.

How many voters are there? Are the other 2 Bishops sympathetic to Williamson?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2015, 05:16:21 PM »

This is a quote from when Bp Williamson was excluded from the meeting:

Quote from: PereJoseph

At the General Chapter, which is presently being held at Écône, there was a vote taken on the decision of Bishop Fellay to exclude Bishop Williamson from the Chapter. Bishop Williamson sent an explanatory letter to each member of the Chapter regarding his understanding of the crisis that the FSSPX currently endures. (It has not yet been made public but will be made public; I have not read it.) Bishop Fellay abstained from voting. The final vote was 29 vs. 9 in favour of Bishop Fellay's decision to exclude Bishop Williamson.

Thus, we now have final proof that Bishop Fellay's coup of the Fraternity has been accomplished. His work is complete. Over two thirds of the members of the Chapter are his men. The FSSPX founded by the Archbishop, as we have known it and loved it over the years, is done.

Now, as the hardship we have expected nears, the SSPX clergy and faithful will be armed with this information when they make some weighty decisions for their futures and their families.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19646&min=0&num=3

Moorslayer · « **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2015, 05:26:20 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

This is a quote from when Bp Williamson was excluded from the meeting:

Quote from: PereJoseph
At the General Chapter, which is presently being held at Écône, there was a vote taken on the decision of Bishop Fellay to exclude Bishop Williamson from the Chapter. Bishop Williamson sent an explanatory letter to each member of the Chapter regarding his understanding of the crisis that the FSSPX currently endures. (It has not yet been made public but will be made public; I have not read it.) Bishop Fellay abstained from voting. The final vote was 29 vs. 9 in favour of Bishop Fellay's decision to exclude Bishop Williamson.

Thus, we now have final proof that Bishop Fellay's coup of the Fraternity has been accomplished. His work is complete. Over two thirds of the members of the Chapter are his men. The FSSPX founded by the Archbishop, as we have known it and loved it over the years, is done.

Now, as the hardship we have expected nears, the SSPX clergy and faithful will be armed with this information when they make some weighty decisions for their futures and their families.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19646&min=0&num=3

Interesting thanks. But what about the other 2 Bishops? I heard at least one of them had favorable opinions of Bishop Williamson.

Does Bishop Williamson even want to seek reunion with SSPX? I think he could accomplish a lot more within the Society than outside, resisting it.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #5 on:** September 16, 2015, 05:27:25 PM »

Let's face it. Bp. Fellay should not have been the superior general of the Society anyway. That's not even taking into account his length of tenure. ABL never intended that a bishop should be elected SG. But somehow he got in.
I see the leadership ranks of the Society filled with priests, (mostly European), who can not bear the sight of Bp. Williamson. I think they have had problems with His Eminence for years, long before he was expelled. The second in command, the German Fr. Phluger, is, IMO, a scarcely disguised liberal. I think he, in particular dislikes H.E. (Read his 8 page letter to the bishop)
But Williamson's real problems came at the time he gave the interview in 2009 to a Swedish TV network. He had been saying similar things about the "h0Ɩ0cαųst" for years prior to his remarks in the last 5 minutes of an hour long interview. Everyone knew, including most, if not all of the bishop's confreres, not to mention seminarians and the lay faithful throughout the world, his views on the h0Ɩ0cαųst, the "gas chambers," the "six million, etc," Williamson was not particularly shy about expressing them. And yet, the SG said that he had never been aware about how H.E. felt on these matters . What a crock of lying ______!
Pope Benedict, at the time, pretended likewise that he hadn't been aware of +Williamson's views on the subject. Pure baloney! It's just that the lifting of the excommunications came at about the time the interview was conducted, late November, 2008,early January of 2009. The affair was fresh in the minds of everyone, and a total embarrassment to Fellay & Co., not to mention the pope. Personally, I loved every entertaining minute of it.
But to answer the question: No, Bp. Williamson will not reunite with the Society, not until +Fellay & Co. are out of there, and certainly not until all the Tribal connections are severed. The SSPX can not survive to continue its original mission until its Augean stables are cleansed.

Moorslayer · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:02:21 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

certainly not until all the Tribal connections are severed. The SSPX can not survive to continue its original mission until its Augean stables are cleansed.

What are SSPX's connections to the Jєωs? I haven't heard of this. I know Bp. Fellay stated in 2012, "The enemies of the Church. The Jєωs, the Masons, the Modernists."

Nickolas · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:46:49 PM »

Moorslayer, as a "recent convert", your curiosity is to be commended, however, before you plunge in to ask detailed questions, wisdom would have that you first prepare yourself to know the truth when it is presented to you.

I encourage you to take as much time as need to firstly understand the crisis in the Church. Read as much as you can about Vatican II, the errors of it, and the reasons for the errors. Archbishop Lefebvre himself wrote many books about Vatican II and his own response to the errors promoted by it. Read, read, read, there is no quick way to get where you need to be.

With regard to the most current events, say post 2012, this forum site has links devoted to provide that information too. Look at the 1st 4 forum lines under SSPX Resistance on this forum. They provide a lot of historical information.

Check out truetrad.com also. Other sites are available for your review.

Finally, asking innocuous questions whether Bishop Williamson will return to the SSPX serves no purpose, as such speculation is not worth the time taken to read the sentence. Only the SSPX and the person you mention knows the answer to that question, so I encourage you to not use forums to encourage speculation.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2015, 08:06:46 PM »

Best Answer

Quote from: Nickolas

Moorslayer, as a "recent convert", your curiosity is to be commended, however, before you plunge in to ask detailed questions, wisdom would have that you first prepare yourself to know the truth when it is presented to you.

I encourage you to take as much time as need to firstly understand the crisis in the Church. Read as much as you can about Vatican II, the errors of it, and the reasons for the errors. Archbishop Lefebvre himself wrote many books about Vatican II and his own response to the errors promoted by it. Read, read, read, there is no quick way to get where you need to be.

With regard to the most current events, say post 2012, this forum site has links devoted to provide that information too. Look at the 1st 4 forum lines under SSPX Resistance on this forum. They provide a lot of historical information.

Check out truetrad.com also. Other sites are available for your review.

Finally, asking innocuous questions whether Bishop Williamson will return to the SSPX serves no purpose, as such speculation is not worth the time taken to read the sentence. Only the SSPX and the person you mention knows the answer to that question, so I encourage you to not use forums to encourage speculation.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:55:02 PM »

Nickolas:

Quote

Finally, asking innocuous questions whether Bishop Williamson will return to the SSPX serves no purpose, as such speculation is not worth the time taken to read the sentence. Only the SSPX and the person you mention knows the answer to that question, so I encourage you to not use forums to encourage speculation.

Come again!? this forum and others like it are full of "speculation" on a wide range of issues. Why can't Moorslayer inquire into these sspx matters? I don't get it. It is at least "worth the time taken to read the sentence," IMO. Without lots of "speculation," or if speculation were discouraged or not permitted on many topics, Cathinfo would probably shut down, wouldn't it?

Nickolas · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:56:52 AM »

Hollingsworth, don't you believe there is a difference between disputations and speculation? You and I can debate the differences here, and that would be a good, healthy debate. There are very many threads on this forum that are healthy one's, void of speculation. Other portions of threads here are speculative, and they often lead to troublesome quarrels that serve no purpose, do they?

I believe we can take our example from our Blessed Lord Himself. He disputed much with the Pharisees but I don't believe he ever speculated with anyone, at least in the reading I have done.

In 2nd Timothy 2:23, Paul seems to warn us about speculation leading to quarrels.
http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-23.htm

Moorslayer · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:04:16 AM »

Quote from: Nickolas

Moorslayer, as a "recent convert", your curiosity is to be commended, however, before you plunge in to ask detailed questions, wisdom would have that you first prepare yourself to know the truth when it is presented to you.

I encourage you to take as much time as need to firstly understand the crisis in the Church. Read as much as you can about Vatican II, the errors of it, and the reasons for the errors. Archbishop Lefebvre himself wrote many books about Vatican II and his own response to the errors promoted by it. Read, read, read, there is no quick way to get where you need to be.

With regard to the most current events, say post 2012, this forum site has links devoted to provide that information too. Look at the 1st 4 forum lines under SSPX Resistance on this forum. They provide a lot of historical information.

Check out truetrad.com also. Other sites are available for your review.

Finally, asking innocuous questions whether Bishop Williamson will return to the SSPX serves no purpose, as such speculation is not worth the time taken to read the sentence. Only the SSPX and the person you mention knows the answer to that question, so I encourage you to not use forums to encourage speculation.

I already understand the crisis concerning Vatican 2 and the reasons for the resistance. My intentions are not to speculate, but to inquire about any legitimate info such as statements and such, concerning if reunion is even plausible. If there have been no statements from either side on the possibilities of reunion, then I guess the answer to my question is no.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2015, 08:52:15 AM »

Quote from: Moorslayer

I already understand the crisis concerning Vatican 2 and the reasons for the resistance. My intentions are not to speculate, but to inquire about any legitimate info such as statements and such, concerning if reunion is even plausible. If there have been no statements from either side on the possibilities of reunion, then I guess the answer to my question is no.

Barring an act of God that somehow reforms the SSPX present leadership somehow, it seems to me that +Fellay and his hand-picked cronies have taken a sharp turn away from the path laid out by ABL, and +Williamson has held fast to the straight and narrow way, while the other two original bishops are somewhere in the middle and apparently each of them could go right or left, but who knows?

I am not aware of any "statements from either side on the possibilities of reunion," as you put it.

You have to consider the entire range of what has been going on over the past 3 decades in the Society of St. Pius X in particular and in the world in general. You must review the facts of GREC and how +F had been so reticent about its dealings for YEARS, even acting as though nothing at all was going on, when it in fact WAS.

You must consider how so many speeches he has given over the years have been LONG and BORING, containing so little substance as to put the audiences to SLEEP, while everyone thought it was a great virtue of the SSPX faithful to be so patient and submissive to this penitential listening fiasco.

You must not overlook how +F has made no secret of the fact that he is attracted to reunion with Conciliar Rome like a bug is drawn to a light bulb. He has presented his attraction as some kind of holy quest, and actually, +W has not done anything to take a stand against that attraction.

In all justice we in the Resistance must not lose sight of the guiding principle laid down by ABL such that this remnant of Catholics cannot fall victim to any attraction to Rome until Rome first converts back to the Faith of our Fathers, because so long as Conciliar Rome is infected with this rampant Modernism poison, there is no point of us submitting to their authority since they would simply eat us alive when we walk through the door. That is their nature.

Therefore, inasmuch as +F and his henchmen have fallen off the rails in the direction of walking through that door prematurely, there really cannot be any possibility of reunion unless +F and his cronies CONVERT and once again embrace the foundational principle that would keep us all together: resistance to the Modernism of Conciliar Rome.

.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2015, 09:22:18 AM »

Nickolas, in my earlier post, which seemed to open yet another controversy, you seem to point to the things I say in it as "speculative." Would you care to specify what particular items in that post are speculative?

Nickolas · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:41:35 AM »

Hollingsworth, I was not referring to anything in your post as speculative, but merely drawing a distinction between speculation and debate of issues. That's all. I apologize if I led you to believe otherwise.