Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 14519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cera

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5210
  • Reputation: +2290/-1012
  • Gender: Female
  • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #135 on: July 21, 2019, 06:22:31 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1

  • Oh, let me guess...  it was the polyglot Fr. Purdy who translated it...
    Dear Incred,
    On his own website, Atila says Plinio is more important to him than God.

    And your response is to say that Atila’s writing was translated by a priest you dislike? How does that even make sense? Atila put his own words on his own website.

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf
    p 36-

    "In the 51 years that I have roamed on this earth, I did not know a better image of God than my relationship with Dr. Plinio. Neither my admiration for Medieval Civilization, nor my enthusiasm for Chivalry or the magnificent architecture of the cathedrals, nor the elevated analysis of the organic regimes of yesteryear, nor my reverential respect for Charlemagne, nor the devotion I have to certain Saints – Michael the Archangel, Elias, Gregory VII, John the Evangelist, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and especially Louis Grignion de Montfort, nor my complete affinity with the Holy Inquisition and the silent veneration that I pay to the mystery of the Liturgy gave me anything comparable. Even the contemplation of God's plans in History, of which I am an aficionado admirer, did not bring me the broadness of panoramas and the sense of the divine that my relationship with Dr. Plinio provided.
    . . .
    This relationship, with which Our Lady and he wanted to reward me, is sacred to me. The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland."
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #136 on: July 28, 2019, 07:40:46 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • Quote from: Incredulous
    But Cera honors him? [Cardinal Newman]  

    She detests TIA because they researched Cardinal Newman extensively and found his cause for Canonization wanting.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/blessed-cardinal-john-henry-newman-to-be-canonized-oct-13/msg660885/#msg660885


    Let's discuss Cera and TIA in this thread, Incredulous, and not everywhere else in the forum. This thread here is the thread which shows that Cera was right to insist in outing Átila Sinke Guimarães and TIA as a blasphemous chap and a blasphemous site.

    Here we can read about Átila's worship of a creature, worship of Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira, which he himself published on TIA, confirming well known accusations against TFP, TIA, and himself.

    Here we also can ask, why you keep stalking Cera and defending the blasphemous Átila, after knowing the facts.


    Quotes from TIA, see:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/warning-against-tia-de-oliveira-from-a-priest-who-knows-the-group-52583/msg659989/#msg659989
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/warning-against-tia-de-oliveira-from-a-priest-who-knows-the-group-52583/msg659773/#msg659773
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Alan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 227
    • Reputation: +74/-28
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #137 on: July 30, 2019, 09:03:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • (I) Faithful Catholics invited member of "anti-Catholic" organisation* to join important conference
     
       Participants in the roundtable discussion, which will be moderated by John Smeaton, chief executive of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (UK), include:

    • John-Henry Westen (LifeSiteNews, Canada)
    • Prof. Roberto de Mattei (Corrispondenza Romana, Italy) 
    • Dr. Taylor Marshall (author, USA)
    • Michael Matt (The Remnant, USA)
    • Michael Voris (Church Militant, USA) 
    • Jeanne Smits (journalist, France)
    • Marco Tosatti (Stilum Curiae, Italy)
    • José Antonio Ureta (TFP, France)
    • Riccardo Cascioli (La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana, Italy) 


    (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/upcoming-vatican-conference-to-address-questions-confronting-amazon-synod)



    (II) Famous Catholic author sympathetic to "anti-Catholic" organisation*

     



    * It is "ant-Catholic" according to Cera (only)

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #138 on: July 30, 2019, 09:17:04 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • Alan, did you see the Plíniolatry posted by Átila Sinke Guimarães on TIA?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5210
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #139 on: July 31, 2019, 02:24:07 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I admit, I hadn't read the entire letter. I wasn't aware Atila crossed the line from veneration to fanaticism and blasphemy. While it's hard for me to believe Plinio wasn't aware of this, suffice to say this is enough to cast a permanent pall over Mr. Guimaraes' intentions for TIA as well as what he believes TFP ought to be.    

    Atila Guimaraes https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf pgs 36-37
    "In the 51 years that I have roamed on this earth, I did not know a better image of God than my relationship with Dr. Plinio. Neither my admiration for Medieval Civilization, nor my enthusiasm for Chivalry or the magnificent architecture of the cathedrals, nor the elevated analysis of the organic regimes of yesteryear, nor my reverential respect for Charlemagne, nor the devotion I have to certain Saints – Michael the Archangel, Elias, Gregory VII, John the Evangelist, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and especially Louis Grignion de Montfort, nor my complete affinity with the Holy Inquisition and the silent veneration that I pay to the mystery of the Liturgy(!) gave me anything comparable. Even the contemplation of God's plans in History, of which I am an aficionado admirer, did not bring me the broadness of panoramas and the sense of the divine that my relationship with Dr. Plinio provided.

    Not that such a relationship was perfect on my part – far be it from me to hold such pretensions – but on his part it was. And since there are certain supernatural realities that are expressed only in a relationship, the fact that they were perfect on his part and that I did not oppose great resistance to him on my part, they could flow normally, reflecting what God wanted them to reflect for me and, perhaps, also for Dr. Plinio. It was through such a relationship that I learned the true love for the Catholic Church, which he taught me to venerate with all my soul.

    "It was through this means that I came to know Wisdom, reflected in him, but in so translucent a way that in him I could glimpse the Eternal Wisdom, the Subsistent Truth, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. It was through this means that I understood Grandeur – a man who assumes everything good that existed in History and, by declaring himself in the state of counter-attack, causes the good of the past to be reborn and opens the doors of the future.
     
    It was through my relationship with him that I understood Magnanimity, this new name for the love of God by which the bountifulness of the superior naturally leads to the detachment and joy of the inferior. A virtue that makes it easy to understand what was and what is the disinterest of the Good Shepherd who gives His life for His sheep. It was in my relationship with him that I discovered Holy Wrath against the enemies of the Catholic name, a wrath proper to those truly innocent men, true lovers of the Holy City. Here also I understood what Courage is, a lofty, elevated and disdainful fearlessness in face of the bad, the revolutionary, the conspirators who plot the destruction of Christendom. It was in him that I learned what certainty of victory is and, in a word, the unshakeable certainty of the full realization of his vocation and, permit me to say, of mine as well.
     
    This relationship, with which Our Lady and he wanted to reward me, is sacred to me. The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland."



    Come on guys. Incred, Pax, do you really find this acceptable? You don't have to agree with everything I'm saying, or Cera or Meg, and you don't have to give an inch to the SSPX, but can't you see how wrong this is? It's pretty disgusting stuff to read. Deluded and blasphemous are the only words I have to describe it. If the previous accusations against the TFP were out and out lies, I certainly wouldn't consider them exaggerations any more.

    Atila could have used any other occasion to criticize the SSPX openly, yet he chose to take a stand over TFP of all things. More specifically, his version of TFP which carries with it every appearance of cult-like devotion in light of his departing letter. His "vision."

    Quote from:Atila Guimaraes https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf pg 36
    However, Mr. President, the point that struck me regarding your omissions, which I found especially bitter to note, was the oblivion I noted in your letter of my right to keep in its entirety the noble vision of Dr. Plinio that Our Lady gave me.

    Could it have anything to do with Atila's reference to the TFP as being the Apostles prophesied by St. Montfort?


    Quote from:Atila Guimaraes https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf pg 36
    If we turn to the prophetic predictions of St. Louis Maria Grignion de Montfort in his Fire Prayer, we find a description of the current panorama. "Fire! Fire! Fire in the House of God!" Who are the men who will come to rescue her? Were they not we? Was this not one of the noblest hopes
    that inflamed the expectations of the best among us in the finest hours of our vocation? Didn't Dr. Plinio believe that the Congregation of the Apostles of the Latter Times [predicted by St. Louis] was founded on May 18, 1967 [when our consecration of slaves of Our Lady was made]?


    Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to what a "manifestation" of Plinio means?


    Quote from:Atila Guimaraes https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf pg 33
    First, because Dr. Plinio having promised that he would not abandon us, he did not abandon us. Second, because he said, "If I die, look for where I will be manifesting myself, and I will guide you there." This means that we should look for where he is. Obeying him, I looked for him. Others will have found him in various places. I found him in the fight; this is where I noted his manifestation and, perhaps, as I believe, others will also find him there.


    Am I the only one getting the sense that these guys are puffing themselves up to burst?


    Quote from:Plinio Correa https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf pg 33
    "I became a Crusader. That is, a man different from all men. Because Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the perfection of all things and Who is the fulfillment of the most perfect things, Our Lord Jesus Christ will now be avenged by me. I will perform the beauty of the revenge, of the fight for the fight, of the revenge for the revenge of Christ Our Lord for Christ Our Lord."


    Oh will you, Plinio? Which posthumous manifestation where you planning to send? If anyone is so blinded by their hatred of the SSPX that they will defend this lunacy or pretend it doesn't exist, deserves to have their powers of judgment questioned.
    I nominate this post as BEST POST OF THE YEAR.
    Thank you again, Croix.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Croixalist

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1480
    • Reputation: +1056/-276
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #140 on: August 01, 2019, 08:48:45 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I nominate this post as BEST POST OF THE YEAR.
    Thank you again, Croix.
    Thank you for the compliment, I'm glad it helped.
    That correspondence really threw me for a loop once I actually went through all of it. If you folks hadn't highlighted the Plinio-burning bush comparison, I wouldn't have trudged through it. Now that some new rounds of debunking have come out of the RadTradThomist camp regarding their purported letter of Fatima, the downward spiral continues. It pains me to think that all of his may have been calculated from the start. I remember how Voris inexplicably turned on the connections he had made with the SSPX-aligned writers after years of cultivating them. Was it all just part of a scheme to jumpstart interest in their group only to break all ties once they secured more finances and widespread notoriety? If they did, TIA played it a lot smarter than CM and I think the fact they still have defenders on the Resistance side of things is a testament to their effectiveness. I only wish I was able to convey how dangerous a group like this can be to those who remain unconvinced.
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #141 on: August 01, 2019, 02:06:57 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Orlando Fedeli (en.wikipedia) is the most notorious critic of Plínio Corrêa de Oliveria. He had been a member of the TFP for decades, and he compiled witness accounts of members of the "inner sect" of the TFP and of other such sects lead by Plínio.

    With respect to Átila Sinke Guimarães's personal "burning-bush-Pliniolatry", published in 1998, and recently published on TIA again, Orlando Fedeli explained:

    Quote from: Orlando Fedeli
    Essas palavras de Átila Sinke Guimarães patenteiam o orgulho fanático dos sequazes de Plínio. A sarça ardente é figura da Encarnação do Verbo, da presença da luz de Deus no seio de Nossa Senhora. É figura da união hipostática: o Verbo de Deus encarnado em Jesus Cristo. É figura da Igreja, humanamente fraca como a sarça, que se consome ardente de amor a Deus, na História, enquanto Deus fala por meio dela. Para os fanáticos da TFP e dos Arautos, Deus estaria mais presente em Plínio que na sarça ardente. Portanto, Deus estaria mais presente em Plínio do que em Cristo, Deus e homem; do que me Maria Santíssima; do que na Igreja. Em Plínio, haveria uma presença de Deus única.
    montfort.org.br


    Here my translation (my mother tongue is neither Portuguese nor English):

    Quote
    These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5210
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #142 on: August 01, 2019, 05:21:17 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Orlando Fedeli (en.wikipedia) is the most notorious critic of Plínio Corrêa de Oliveria. He had been a member of the TFP for decades, and he compiled witness accounts of members of the "inner sect" of the TFP and of other such sects lead by Plínio.

    With respect to Átila Sinke Guimarães's personal "burning-bush-Pliniolatry", published in 1998, and recently published on TIA again, Orlando Fedeli explained:
    montfort.org.br


    Here my translation (my mother tongue is neither Portuguese nor English):
    Great research on your part and insight from Fedeli.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5210
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #143 on: August 14, 2019, 06:06:09 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.


    Thank you Struthio for posting this.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Alan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 227
    • Reputation: +74/-28
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #144 on: August 16, 2019, 09:28:50 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.

    Cera must have had very bad personal experience with the TFP / TIA, otherwise how could you explain her repeated and biased attacks on the TFP/ TIA?

    Every faithful Catholic knows the TFP / TIA doesn't deserve the label "anti-Catholic", how much good they have done. Many famous faithful Catholics are their allies -- Bishop Schneider, Prof Roberto de Mattei, Michael Voris, J Henry Westen, etc.

    I never detected any fanatical pride in TFP / TIA's published materials or videos. What did Cera base when she accused them of fanatical pride??  Or did Cera get treated badly (which she interpreted as "fanatical pride") when she encountered TFP members?

    You just should not attack the whole organisation when only some members did wrong.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41868
    • Reputation: +23920/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #145 on: August 16, 2019, 09:44:28 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1


  • Cera must have had very bad personal experience with the TFP / TIA, otherwise how could you explain her repeated and biased attacks on the TFP/ TIA?

    Every faithful Catholic knows the TFP / TIA doesn't deserve the label "anti-Catholic", how much good they have done. Many famous faithful Catholics are their allies -- Bishop Schneider, Prof Roberto de Mattei, Michael Voris, J Henry Westen, etc.

    I never detected any fanatical pride in TFP / TIA's published materials or videos. What did Cera base when she accused them of fanatical pride??  Or did Cera get treated badly (which she interpreted as "fanatical pride") when she encountered TFP members?

    Indeed.  I have called Cera out to explain her history with the group and give us some insight why she despises them so much, but she has refused.  She clearly has an agenda.  It would be one thing to merely have a negative opinion of the group.  You would make a post or two and then move along to other subjects.  But Cera seems absolutely obsessed with attacking TFP / TIA.  I have known over the years quite a few members of the American TFP, and they have all been fine, devoted, dedicated Catholics, and they have never given me the impression of any cult-like devotion to Plinio or his mother.


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #146 on: August 16, 2019, 09:51:52 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • You [Cera] just should not attack the whole organisation when only some members did wrong.

    You, Alan, should ask Átila Sinke Guimarães to remove his Pliniolatry from the TIA website and publish a retraction.

    Why do you worry about Cera and not about Átila and TIA?

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1150
    • Reputation: +843/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #147 on: August 16, 2019, 10:29:07 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Indeed.  I have called Cera out to explain her history with the group and give us some insight why she despises them so much, but she has refused.  She clearly has an agenda.  It would be one thing to merely have a negative opinion of the group.  You would make a post or two and then move along to other subjects.  But Cera seems absolutely obsessed with attacking TFP / TIA.  I have known over the years quite a few members of the American TFP, and they have all been fine, devoted, dedicated Catholics, and they have never given me the impression of any cult-like devotion to Plinio or his mother.
    There was/is a man called F.John Loughnan, a former SSPXer, who would rant incessantly like this on the Net against Abp Lefebvre and the SSPX. Lefebvre himself would carry relics of his mother.

    Offline Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5210
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #148 on: August 16, 2019, 07:20:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You just should not attack the whole organisation when only some members did wrong.
    Hi Alan,
    You are correct; no one should attack an organization when only one member of that organization did something wrong. It's quite different when the FOUNDER of an organization is a heretic who only pretends to be a Catholic.

    You are a newbie and might not understand that what is being discussed is that Atiila G., the FOUNDER of the so-called "Tradition in Action," has made an outlandish heretical statement on his own website in his own words.

    He said God is less important than the founder of TIA's parent organization TFP.
    Specifically:
        The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland
    .


    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf
    It was on page 36 of the docuмent; it is now on page 37.

    The defenders of the heretic have refused to respond to the FACTS and have only engaged in repeated name-calling and personal attacks.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41868
    • Reputation: +23920/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #149 on: August 16, 2019, 07:29:51 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • He said God is less important than the founder of TIA's parent organization TFP.
    Specifically:
        The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland
    .

    Is English your first language, Cera?  You do realize that this does not say what you slanderously claim, don't you?

    What he's saying is that he may have had a greater experience of God in 33 years with Plinio than Moses did in 40 days by the burning bush.  He's contrasting 33 years with 40 days, and a relationship with a burning bush.

    Poetic excess?  Undoubtedly.  But the heresy of claiming that Plinio > God?  Slander on your part.  He says that nowhere in the text you cite.  If I had spent 33 years with a great saint, like St. John Vianney, nay, even a year with such as he, I might say the same thing, that I got more out of it in terms of getting to know God than Moses did from the burning bush.  And I probably would not be wrong.

    I'm starting to wonder if Atila and Cera did not date many years ago and Atila dumped her.