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Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 34133 times)

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Offline Croixalist

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #140 on: August 01, 2019, 08:48:45 AM »
Quote from: Cera on July 31, 2019, 02:24:07 PM
I nominate this post as BEST POST OF THE YEAR.
Thank you again, Croix.
Thank you for the compliment, I'm glad it helped.
That correspondence really threw me for a loop once I actually went through all of it. If you folks hadn't highlighted the Plinio-burning bush comparison, I wouldn't have trudged through it. Now that some new rounds of debunking have come out of the RadTradThomist camp regarding their purported letter of Fatima, the downward spiral continues. It pains me to think that all of his may have been calculated from the start. I remember how Voris inexplicably turned on the connections he had made with the SSPX-aligned writers after years of cultivating them. Was it all just part of a scheme to jumpstart interest in their group only to break all ties once they secured more finances and widespread notoriety? If they did, TIA played it a lot smarter than CM and I think the fact they still have defenders on the Resistance side of things is a testament to their effectiveness. I only wish I was able to convey how dangerous a group like this can be to those who remain unconvinced.
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Offline Struthio

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #141 on: August 01, 2019, 02:06:57 PM »
Orlando Fedeli (en.wikipedia) is the most notorious critic of Plínio Corrêa de Oliveria. He had been a member of the TFP for decades, and he compiled witness accounts of members of the "inner sect" of the TFP and of other such sects lead by Plínio.

With respect to Átila Sinke Guimarães's personal "burning-bush-Pliniolatry", published in 1998, and recently published on TIA again, Orlando Fedeli explained:

Quote from: Orlando Fedeli
Essas palavras de Átila Sinke Guimarães patenteiam o orgulho fanático dos sequazes de Plínio. A sarça ardente é figura da Encarnação do Verbo, da presença da luz de Deus no seio de Nossa Senhora. É figura da união hipostática: o Verbo de Deus encarnado em Jesus Cristo. É figura da Igreja, humanamente fraca como a sarça, que se consome ardente de amor a Deus, na História, enquanto Deus fala por meio dela. Para os fanáticos da TFP e dos Arautos, Deus estaria mais presente em Plínio que na sarça ardente. Portanto, Deus estaria mais presente em Plínio do que em Cristo, Deus e homem; do que me Maria Santíssima; do que na Igreja. Em Plínio, haveria uma presença de Deus única.
montfort.org.br


Here my translation (my mother tongue is neither Portuguese nor English):

Quote
These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.
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Offline Cera

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #142 on: August 01, 2019, 05:21:17 PM »
Quote from: Struthio on August 01, 2019, 02:06:57 PM
Orlando Fedeli (en.wikipedia) is the most notorious critic of Plínio Corrêa de Oliveria. He had been a member of the TFP for decades, and he compiled witness accounts of members of the "inner sect" of the TFP and of other such sects lead by Plínio.

With respect to Átila Sinke Guimarães's personal "burning-bush-Pliniolatry", published in 1998, and recently published on TIA again, Orlando Fedeli explained:
montfort.org.br


Here my translation (my mother tongue is neither Portuguese nor English):
Great research on your part and insight from Fedeli.
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Offline Cera

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #143 on: August 14, 2019, 06:06:09 PM »
These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.


Thank you Struthio for posting this.
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Offline Alan

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #144 on: August 16, 2019, 09:28:50 AM »
Quote from: Cera on July 21, 2019, 06:22:31 PM
Quote from: Cera on August 14, 2019, 06:06:09 PM
These words of Átila Sinke Guimarães make the fanatical pride of the followers of Plínio patent. The burning bush is a figure of the incarnation of the Word, of the presence of the light of God in the bosom of Our Lady. It's a figure of the hypostatic union: the Word of God incarnate in Jesus Christ. It's a figure of the Church, humanly weak like the bush, which is being consumed by the burning of love to God, in history, while God speaks through it. For the fanatics of the TFP and of the Arautos, God would be more present in Plínio than in the burning bush. Hence, God would be more present in Plínio than in Christ – God and man; more than in Maria Most Holy; more than in the Church. In Plínio, there would be a unique presence of God.

Cera must have had very bad personal experience with the TFP / TIA, otherwise how could you explain her repeated and biased attacks on the TFP/ TIA?

Every faithful Catholic knows the TFP / TIA doesn't deserve the label "anti-Catholic", how much good they have done. Many famous faithful Catholics are their allies -- Bishop Schneider, Prof Roberto de Mattei, Michael Voris, J Henry Westen, etc.

I never detected any fanatical pride in TFP / TIA's published materials or videos. What did Cera base when she accused them of fanatical pride??  Or did Cera get treated badly (which she interpreted as "fanatical pride") when she encountered TFP members?

You just should not attack the whole organisation when only some members did wrong.
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