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Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 14498 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #105 on: July 17, 2019, 06:17:00 AM »
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  • Plínio is presented as a divine being on the TIA website. You and other TIA followers should make Átila and Marian stop doing so.

    But you are corrupt and choose to attack me and not Átila/TIA. You choose to side with blasphemy and to fight against those who denounce it.
    Would you kindly give me a link to illustrate the first statement?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #106 on: July 17, 2019, 06:25:57 AM »
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  • Would you kindly give me a link to illustrate the first statement?

    See one of my recent posts in this thread. Keyword: Moses. Page: 6.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #107 on: July 17, 2019, 09:17:42 AM »
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  • Quote
    Plínio is presented as a divine being on the TIA website. You and other TIA followers should make Átila and Marian stop doing so.

    But you are corrupt and choose to attack me and not Átila/TIA. You choose to side with blasphemy and to fight against those who denounce it. 

    You're so overly-dramatic, it's ridiculous.  I'm not a TIA "follower"...I simply read stuff from their website.  And most of what I read is solid.
    .
    Frankly, I've never heard Plino's name until all these threads.  I've heard of Atila but only because he's alive.  If Plino and Atilia are blasphemers and nut jobs, ok.  Does that affect all the other people who write articles on their site?  I've not seen the bad influence appear in their articles.  I've seen +Fellay have more bad influence on the new-sspx than any kind of false apparitions or hero-worship from TIA.
    .
    I've said from the beginning that i'm only making a distinction that TIA is not all bad, even if the founders are crazy.  You refuse to make this distinction and then call me "corrupt" because you have some emotional pain assocated with TFP/TIA, (just like Cera) and you are triggered. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #108 on: July 17, 2019, 10:52:57 AM »
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  • Hi Meg,
    I've previously explained why I am concerned about the Plinio- worshiping cults.


    1. Because I too got taken in by TIA's appearance of Catholicity.


    2. And because when I began to research deeper into the writings of Atila and Marian, I realized that although they pretended to have left TFP, they had never left the Plinio- worshiping, anti-clerical parts of it.


    3.  And because when I looked even deeper, I learned just how evil all of the Plinio-worshiping groups are. TFP was condemned by its local Bishop, by the Bishops of Brazil and by the civil authorities of two South American nations for child- trafficking (not sɛҳuąƖ trafficking, but removing boys from access to their parents.)


    4.  And because as I continued to research, I learned that Marion's brother runs the TFP in the  Pennsylvania and that the truly loony Plinio- worshiping group Heralds of the Gospel is now headquartered in Houston. They say that Plinio is in heaven at the right side of the Holy Virgin and that St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel.


    5. And as I continued to research, I learned that America Needs Fatima, a project of the TFP, says that the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary has already been done. ANF is the Novus Ordo branch of TFP. A former member of TFP says "We always said 'When TFP needs money, America Needs Fatima'."


    And much more . . .

    Thanks for the information. I have not seen it before. You were directly involved with the TFP organization, then?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #109 on: July 17, 2019, 10:57:15 AM »
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  • https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f159_Defense_Port.htm
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F159_Defesa-Port.pdf


    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f142_Defense.htm
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf


    Átila thinks that God is "more present" in Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira than in the sacred burning bush.

    That's the way, Átila presents himself and his Plínio.


    From post above:

    Atila wrote:

    "The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were with God for 40 days, I have been with Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard hope that I may win the dispute with this prophet when I shall pass from this exile into the fatherland."


    :o
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #110 on: July 17, 2019, 11:46:27 AM »
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  • From post above:

    Atila wrote:

    "The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were with God for 40 days, I have been with Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard hope that I may win the dispute with this prophet when I shall pass from this exile into the fatherland."


    :o

    In addition to the strange comparison of Plinio to Moses, and Atila seeming to think that Plinio was greater than Moses (or maybe greater than the burning bush?), I find it odd that Atila would refer to heaven as the "Fatherland."

    Is referring to heaven as the "Fatherland" an actual Catholic thing to do? I've not ever heard of Heaven being referred to as thus, but maybe it has been, and I've just not seen it. It kind of has that pagan "Odin" type of connotation to it, from Norse pagan mythology.

    :confused:
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #111 on: July 17, 2019, 02:12:16 PM »
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  • In addition to the strange comparison of Plinio to Moses, and Atila seeming to think that Plinio was greater than Moses (or maybe greater than the burning bush?), I find it odd that Atila would refer to heaven as the "Fatherland."

    Is referring to heaven as the "Fatherland" an actual Catholic thing to do? I've not ever heard of Heaven being referred to as thus, but maybe it has been, and I've just not seen it. It kind of has that pagan "Odin" type of connotation to it, from Norse pagan mythology.

    :confused:

    The analogy is: Átila = Moses / Plínio = divine voice of God in the bush.



    The "Fatherland" is not Catholic. It's gnostic/caballistic/hermetic/...

    Quote from: TIA
    Organic Society and the Desire for Heaven

     Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

    Since this earth is a land of exile, it was made to not satisfy us entirely. If it could do so, it would not be an exile, but a kind of second fatherland, more like the magnificent fatherland God prepared for us in heavenly Paradise.

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/OrganicSociety/A_004_DesireHeaven_PCO.htm


    Quote from: The Terminology of Plotinus and of some Gnostic Writings
    The One, is a "Father" of the intelligible (En. V, 8, 1). In the absolutely Transcendent is "the fatherland from which we originate and our Father is there" (En I, 6, 8). "The Father" is a common name for the Supreme Being with the Gnostics.

    The Terminology of Plotinus and of some Gnostic Writings, Mainly the Fourth Treatise of the Jung Codex (PDF)
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #112 on: July 17, 2019, 02:45:23 PM »
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  • Frankly, I've never heard Plino's name until all these threads.  I've heard of Atila but only because he's alive.

    Átila Sinke Guimarães is the editor of the TIA website (see traditioninaction.org).

    6.090 results for site:traditioninaction.org
    2.100 results for site:traditioninaction.org Guimarães
       951 results for site:traditioninaction.org Plínio

    numbers by google


    If Plino and Atilia are blasphemers and nut jobs, ok.  Does that affect all the other people who write articles on their site?

    Yes, it affects them. They have put their names in support of Plínio and his "slave" Átila and his TIA Inc.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #113 on: July 17, 2019, 02:54:51 PM »
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  • What evidence do you have that everyone who writes for TIA is supports Plino 100%?  Can they not be writing just for support of the Faith?  Your view presupposes that most articles include Plino or Atila in some reference, which isn’t the case.  Most articles are about the Faith, not these 2 gentlemen.  

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #114 on: July 17, 2019, 03:23:27 PM »
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  • What evidence do you have that everyone who writes for TIA is supports Plino 100%?  Can they not be writing just for support of the Faith?  Your view presupposes that most articles include Plino or Atila in some reference, which isn’t the case.  Most articles are about the Faith, not these 2 gentlemen.  


    One does not need such evidence to state that the blasphemy of Plínio and Átila affects them.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #115 on: July 17, 2019, 03:46:20 PM »
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  • If Joe Blow writes an article on TIA about St Francis and the Christmas Crib, how is this affected by Plino and Atila?


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #116 on: July 17, 2019, 03:50:45 PM »
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  • Thanks for the information. I have not seen it before. You were directly involved with the TFP organization, then?
    What I said was:
    "Because I too got taken in by TIA's appearance of Catholicity."


    How can you extrapolate so incorrectly from that? I was never directly involved with either cult organization. By "taken in," I mean that like others here, I too once thought they were a good Catholic group.


    I am just someone who loves the Truth and thereby also the truth. So I research. And when I find that what many here on Cath Info praise as a wonderful Catholic group is in fact an anti-Catholic heretical sect, I have to speak the truth.


    TFP has been condemned by Bishop Mayer, the Brazilian Council of Bishops, civil authorities in South America and former members as an anti-Catholic, heretical sect which prays the disgusting blasphemy "Let it no longer be I who live but rather Plinio in me who lives."


    TIA, like TFP is focused on Plinio (nearly 900 pages by or about him on TIA). They "defend" TFP against unfounded but perceived injustices. Read their own articles. They never separated from TFP Plinio-worship. Marian Hovart goes on about how proud she is to have translated for Plinio, (cult leader of a heretical sect.)


    TIA was founded by Atila aka slave #11 to Plinio. This un-Catholic blasphemy has never been denounced. On TIA, Atlia's long article is a rationalization for his being a slave to Plinio.


    I thank God I found out the truth about all of the Plinio- worshiping groups without getting sucked in as many here on Cath Info have been. I continue to pray for their return to the Catholic Faith.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #117 on: July 17, 2019, 03:55:10 PM »
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  • What I said was:
    "Because I too got taken in by TIA's appearance of Catholicity."


    How can you extrapolate so incorrectly from that? I was never directly involved with either cult organization. By "taken in," I mean that like others here, I too once thought they were a good Catholic group.

    You SHOULD have been more clear. It's not that difficult to do. I meant no personal insult; I was just trying to clarify your situation. Sheesh. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #118 on: July 17, 2019, 04:00:28 PM »
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  • If Joe Blow writes an article on TIA about St Francis and the Christmas Crib, how is this affected by Plino and Atila?
    It. Is. Not.
    Would you drink from a cup that had a dead tarantula floating in it? Even if 95% of a website is Catholic, it does not mean that we can safely ignore their anti-Catholic, uncharitable, sleazy unfounded attacks on Blessed Cardinal Newman, Archbishop Lafebrve, Bishop Travez, numerous good Traditional Catholic priests, or anyone with whom they disagree.


    Nor can we ignore Atila's disgusting un-Catholic attitude toward the marriage bed, easily found on this site.


    Nor can we ignore the fact that Atila laid down in front of Plinio, with Plinio's foot on Atila's neck, and pledged his  "slavery" to Plinio. According to another slave who wrote an expose of the heretical cult, the slaves also went to confession to Plinio, a layman. (Docuмent easily found on this site.)


    The intelligence of the enemy is superior to human intelligence. When the enemy attacks good Catholic Bishops and priests, it is smart enough to do some from behind a pretense of Catholicism.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #119 on: July 17, 2019, 04:07:49 PM »
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  • In addition to the strange comparison of Plinio to Moses, and Atila seeming to think that Plinio was greater than Moses (or maybe greater than the burning bush?), I find it odd that Atila would refer to heaven as the "Fatherland."

    Is referring to heaven as the "Fatherland" an actual Catholic thing to do? I've not ever heard of Heaven being referred to as thus, but maybe it has been, and I've just not seen it. It kind of has that pagan "Odin" type of connotation to it, from Norse pagan mythology.

    :confused:
    Hi Meg,
    Interesting that the word "Fatherland" has come up.

    I found this interesting connection between TFP, the CIA and a group called the Fatherland.
    A good example of TFP’s connections with both the CIA and the military is the branch in Chile, which supplied the Chilean armed forces with a social philosophy-the generals had none – and a religious basis for the regime’s political witch-hunts.
        In the last months of the Allende government, TFP, the gremios, Fatherland and Liberty, and other right-wing opposition groups merged in a common front. The National Agriculture Society, for example, was controlled by Fatherland and Liberty and received CIA funds through an organization called the Congress for Cultural Liberty. The society, in turn, worked with the Association of Manufacturers, whose president, Orlando Saenz, was one of the directors of the TFP-backed gremios as well as a secret leader of Fatherland and Liberty. A month before the coup Saenz publicly thanked the president of the Agriculture Society for “the services lent earlier by you to our cause.” Both groups had close ties with El Mercurio, Santiago’s largest newspaper, which was financed by the CIA and used as an outlet for anti-Allende propaganda, according to U. S. Senate investigations. They also shared important Brazilian connections. Fatherland and Liberty obtained arms from Brazil through a Chilean coffee-importing firm which brought in, via the port of Valparaiso, crates of guns disguised as raw material for the manufacture of instant coffee. Saenz was in close touch with the financial and ideological backers of Brazil’s TFP, which had been in at the kill of Goulart’s regime. (Several of the tactics used in Chile were tested by TFP in Brazil. With CIA help, TFP sponsored in Sao Paulo a march of several thousand middle- and upper-class women that was psychologically crucial to the coup ten days later. Similarly, women’s groups sponsored by TFP and Fatherland and Liberty held their largest demonstration five days before Allende’s overthrow.
        U.S. congressional investigations have established that the CIA spent $13 million to thwart Allende, but with some exceptions, such as El Mercurio and Fatherland and Liberty, details of how the money was allocated have not been revealed. How much the CIA gave the TFP may never be known, but there are numerous links between the two organizations, particularly through Fatherland and Liberty, in addition to an established connection in the campaign to discredit the country’s Catholic Church.
        http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Latin_America/Villains_Afoot_COTP.html


    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary