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Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 34395 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2019, 08:40:32 AM »
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Well, you didn't say anything I would have to answer.

Then don't quote my post next time.

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Look Pax Vobis: Átila is inventing apparitions of Our Lady to further his Plínio-cult.

Aren't you able to read and grasp the situation?
Does that mean that the entire TIA organization is corrupt?  No.  +Fellay lied and manipulated the entire sspx when he used the millions of rosaries said for the consecration of Russia to further his agenda with new-rome by saying Our Lady had obtained the excommunication removals.  This is just as blasphemous.  Do +Fellay's actions mean that every sspx priest is corrupt?  No.

My whole point is that you cannot write-off an entire organization just because leadership is bad.  Should you be cautious?  Yes.  Should you spread awareness of the bad acts?  Yes.  Should you challenge the bad leadership?  Yes.  But life is all about taking the good and ignoring the bad.  Christ told us the wheat and the chaff will always be growing together.  It's unavoidable.

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2019, 09:05:22 AM »
That's an argument against Lefebvre and an argument against Plínio. Both created organisations that split Catholics from the conciliar mainstream (which both later split further).

Ridiculous.

You speak as if the post-concilliar Church is orthodox and loyal to Christ, and the TFP is creating divisions and chaos.
It seems that you believe in modernism.

In fact, if someone is fighting against heresy or corruption, we don't call it creating division, but you did -- this tells us something about you.


Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2019, 10:02:47 AM »
The essential problem with Plinio as I see it is that he wasn't very transparent with his organization. TFP wasn't a religious order, but it also demanded much more from its members than a lay organization ever would or had a right to. While he was alive, he was mostly well known for going after Communism, but he stopped short of VII. Going by Atila's account, he would have publicly endorsed the Murky Waters book had he lived to see its publication but as it stood, it was almost 30 years after SSPX had already been duking it out in the public square. Many people voiced concerns privately during and after the council, but almost no one had the courage to stand up to it. Plinio, Atila, and the TFP were no exception to that rule for the first 30 years but Abp. Lefebvre and the SSPX were.

That is not to say that newcomers aren't welcome but when TIA wants to suddenly build up Plinio as some great leader of traditionalism ahead of the Archbishop, that's when they have to learn their place.

Archbishop Lefebvre was tasked with having to navigate through the corrupted hierarchy of the Church, a path he had to chart without much assistance. Sometimes he had to figure it out as he went along. The recent Neo-Conning of the SSPX was certainly not his doing, nor is it the fault of the good religious and laity who would form the Resistance in reaction to it, many times as the result of undue expulsion from it. I sympathize with all the good people involved on each side, but the real answer must come from the very top. All of this is basic survival at the provisional level. We can barely maintain much less improve the situation.

Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2019, 07:31:09 PM »
Does that mean that the entire TIA organization is corrupt?  No.  +Fellay lied and manipulated the entire sspx when he used the millions of rosaries said for the consecration of Russia to further his agenda with new-rome by saying Our Lady had obtained the excommunication removals.  This is just as blasphemous.  Do +Fellay's actions mean that every sspx priest is corrupt?  No.

My whole point is that you cannot write-off an entire organization just because leadership is bad.  Should you be cautious?  Yes.  Should you spread awareness of the bad acts?  Yes.  Should you challenge the bad leadership?  Yes.  But life is all about taking the good and ignoring the bad.  Christ told us the wheat and the chaff will always be growing together.  It's unavoidable.

I didn't say anything with respect to the questions you ask. You make up questions and make it appear, as if I had answered them positively, and then you answer them negatively. But I had neither asked them nor answered them at all.

I just imparted what I know about the blasphemous cult to Plínio and Lucília, and I showed what ludicrous apparitions Átila invents to make it appear as if Plínio was personally blessed by our Lady.

I let readers draw their own conclusions.

In case you're interested in my opinion: Yes, every priest who would not speak up against blasphemous acts of his superior is corrupt.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2019, 07:42:00 PM »

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I didn't say anything with respect to the questions you ask. You make up questions and make it appear, as if I had answered them positively, and then you answer them negatively. But I had neither asked them nor answered them at all.
Your posts are filled with implications and subtle allegations.  Be a man and speak clearly, if you don’t want your words to be misunderstood.