Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 14535 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Viva Cristo Rey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16449
  • Reputation: +4863/-1803
  • Gender: Female
Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2019, 06:56:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can’t really trust anyone or any group anymore.  All this bickering is unhealthy too.  
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #61 on: July 14, 2019, 07:36:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Átila Sinke Guimarães wants his readers to believe that "Our Lady" appeared to "Mother Francisca de los Angeles, the novice mistress" in Quito "in the 1930s" to ask her to pray for his semi-god, Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira:

    Quote
    The word spread in the Convent that she had received the task to pray for him directly from Our Lady.

    More delirious nonsense from TIA:


    Quote

    Two nuns on the plaza corner

    In 1968 and 1969, the TFP was making public campaigns against the infiltration of semi-occult progressivist groups in the Church that wanted to subvert her. The Brazilian monthly Catolicismo had published a special issue on this topic and the TFP activists were spreading that issue among the public. One of the ways TFP accomplished this task was through “caravans.” These caravans were groups of nine young men in a UV who would travel in an area where TFP did not have a seat in order to disseminate a book, magazine or newspaper.

    1: The site where Garcia Moreno was killed in the plaza; 2: The Convent of the Immaculate Conception
    One of these caravans with Brazilian members was passing through Ecuador, and, even though Quito was not on its planned route, the group decided to stop at La Plaza Grande (the historical center of Quito) to make a campaign in front of the site where Garcia Moreno had been murdered in order to honor that valiant Catholic hero.

    They had no idea that the Convent of the Immaculate Conception was on the corner of that Plaza. They looked upon the stop as an impromptu adventure, since these Brazilians did not speak Spanish well and the magazine they were disseminating was in Portuguese. Those facts did not concern them; they were there to pay homage to that great hero whom they admired.

    During the campaign they offered the magazine to two nuns who were standing on the corner of the Plaza attentively watching them. The nuns responded, “Come inside, our Abbess wants to speak with you.”

    They graciously complied, and the Abbess asked if they could carry down the Statue of Our Lady of Good Success from the Convent’s choir to the Church because it was the date that she should descend but the nuns did not have men to help them with the arduous task. They accepted. Shortly afterwards, when the campaign ended, they entered the Convent and carried down the Statue. This was the beginning.

    Later, we learned that Mother Mariana had left a prophecy with this instruction: “When the Franciscans will refuse to carry down the Statue, send two nuns to the corner of La Plaza Grande and there they will find the ones who will replace them.” In fact, some days before, the Franciscans had sent an excuse to the Convent stating they could not bring the Statue down because they had to attend a Liberation Theology meeting.

    Praying for Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

    Soon after this incident a TFP seat was established in Quito, without any special link to the Convent or Our Lady of Good Success. The nuns, however, often would send ladies who were their friends with messages to the TFP members asking them to come to the Convent to show them photos of their campaigns.

    Nuns in the Convent were praying by name for Prof. Plinio since the 1930s
    In one of these screen projection shows, two or three members of the TFP were in the front near the screen with the cloistered nuns seated behind them, out of the sight of the young men. In a photo of one campaign where Prof. Plinio appeared in a large group of persons, one nun walked up the hallway of the room to the screen and, on her own initiative, pointed to a person, saying, “This one is Dr. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.”

    And she actually was right on target. That nun was Mother Francisca de los Angeles, the novice mistress.

    How did Mother Francisca know about Dr. Plinio? At that time no one could explain the episode; today we know that Mother Francisca de los Angeles had been praying by name for Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira since the 1940s without knowing him personally. The word spread in the Convent that she had received the task to pray for him directly from Our Lady.

    Other old nuns at that Convent, whose names I will not reveal now, have affirmed that Our Lady appeared to them in the 1930s and asked them to pray namely for Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira. At that time Prof. Plinio was a young man in his 20s or 30s, a Brazilian who, naturally speaking, would have been completely unknown to these religious women of Quito.

    Official request

    In 1978 Mother Rosario, then Abbess of the Convent, sent an ambassador to São Paulo – Mr. Luis Fernando Chiriboga Ushina – to deliver a letter to Prof. Plinio. In that letter, which was also signed by all the nuns of the Convent, she officially asked “in the name of Our Lady and mine” for him to provide men to bring down the Statue of Our Lady of Good Success from “now until the end of the world.”

    TFP members make the transfer of Our Lady at the request of the Convent
    Out of courtesy, Prof. Plinio sent back an amiable response, also official, accepting the mission and thanking Mother Rosario for her trust.

    From then on, every time a new Abbess took power, one of Prof. Plinio’s followers would go to her and ask whether or not she wanted to renew that invitation. Until now, all Abbesses have done so by means of a signed docuмent.

    Last January this agreement was broken by the present day Abbess, under the pressure of the SSPX’ Agent, La Capitana and Arch. Travez, as I showed in my last article.

    These are some facts that I want to record in order to show that the task of bringing the Statue down from the upper choir to the Church was never an initiative or demand made by the TFP or the followers of Prof. Plinio, but rather it was an explicit request of the nuns themselves of the Convent.

    With this said, I close the series of articles on the usurpation the SSPX is trying to make in the Convent of the Immaculate Conception in Quito through bribes, intrigues and calumnies.






    Source: https://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/233bev05_28_2019.htm
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #62 on: July 14, 2019, 07:54:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Átila Sinke Guimarães
    Other old nuns at that Convent, whose names I will not reveal now, have affirmed that Our Lady appeared to them in the 1930s and asked them to pray namely for Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.

    An old professor from São Paulo has written a book about the blasphemous cult of Plínio from Higeniópolis. And he has presented testimony of witnesses on oath registered by a notary. And "Msgr." João Scognamiglio Clá Dias is on record for continuing the blasphemies that the professor denounced.

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #63 on: July 14, 2019, 08:01:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can’t really trust anyone or any group anymore.  

    Good idea!

    Why would the devil and his troups first attack the Church, and then let those alone who take the faith more serious?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10306
    • Reputation: +6216/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #64 on: July 14, 2019, 08:21:43 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • So because TIA is associated with nutt people 20 years ago, and because TIA isn't run by a cleric, that means that everything they do is tainted.  Every article they write is bad.  Every program is wrong.

    Got it.  Makes sense.


    Offline Croixalist

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1480
    • Reputation: +1056/-276
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #65 on: July 14, 2019, 08:28:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Problem Three:
    For a letter purportedly from a hostile president of the TFP organization from which Atila is, supposedly being cut off, it is surprisingly full of praise for Atila:

    This is from:
    “The Letter of the President of the TFP to Atila Sinke Guimarães, November 20, 1997
    . . .  Very dear Mr. Atila, because of your elevation of sights, your gifts of intelligence, your energy and, above all, the many graces that Our Lady has poured over you, you have a great role to carry out in the  Counter-Revolution  and  in  the  TFP. . . I take leave with inalterable esteem.”

    Thats. Just. Odd.

    Yes, very strange and sycophantic. That is an ever-so-slight contradiction in their Q&A on the subject:

    "The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations."
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm


    All this bickering is unhealthy too.  

    Well, what are you waiting for and agree with me!  :really-mad2:



    :laugh1:


    Átila Sinke Guimarães wants his readers to believe that "Our Lady" appeared to "Mother Francisca de los Angeles, the novice mistress" in Quito "in the 1930s" to ask her to pray for his semi-god, Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira:

    More delirious nonsense from TIA:



    Source: https://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/233bev05_28_2019.htm

    A series of miraculous events which can only be verified by people long dead or who enjoy a full cloak of anonymity given to them via the TIA witness protection program. In other words, "Trust me, I know people who've seen things!"

    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Alan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 227
    • Reputation: +74/-28
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #66 on: July 14, 2019, 08:29:15 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Problem One:
    Why did Atila fight so hard to remain attached to TFP?
    Plinio Correa de Oliveira’s group, TFP, was condemned by the Catholic Church in Brazil and Venezuala.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Thats. Just. Odd.


    It's just odd, Cera, that you only chose certain messages to refute, but not mine --- because you couldn't.

    You know the TFP is doing good works for God and Our Lady, that's why you couldn't refute my messages. You only presented the "condemnations" of some bishops, but we already know how bad some bishops have become after Vatican Council II.

    Mr Taylor Marshall recently even published the book "Infiltration" which exposes the infiltration of communists into the Church. Being a bishop and cardinal today doesn't guarantee a person is loyal to the Church. So the TFP being condemned by some bishops does not proof the TFP is anti-Catholic.

    How anti-Catholic is the TFP??  Is it anti-Catholic to promote the Rosary?  Is it anti-Catholic to fight against abortion?  Is it anti-Catholic to fight against same sex marriage?  Is it anti-Catholic to promote "True devotion to Mary"?


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #67 on: July 14, 2019, 08:40:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3
  • So because TIA is associated with nutt people 20 years ago, and because TIA isn't run by a cleric, that means that everything they do is tainted.  Every article they write is bad.  Every program is wrong.

    Got it.  Makes sense.

    Átila Sinke Guimarães wants to make people believe in a ludicrous tale of an apparition of Our Lady in Quito elevating Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira to semi-god status.

    I want to remind readers that Plínio Corrêa de Oliveira has been worshipped before by TFP and Arautos do Evangelho.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Croixalist

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1480
    • Reputation: +1056/-276
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #68 on: July 14, 2019, 08:45:29 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • It's just odd, Cera, that you only chose certain messages to refute, but not mine --- because you couldn't.

    You know the TFP is doing good works for God and Our Lady, that's why you couldn't refute my messages. You only presented the "condemnations" of some bishops, but we already know how bad some bishops have become after Vatican Council II.

    Mr Taylor Marshall recently even published the book "Infiltration" which exposes the infiltration of communists into the Church. Being a bishop and cardinal today doesn't guarantee a person is loyal to the Church. So he TFP being condemned by some bishops does not proof the TFP is anti-Catholic.

    How anti-Catholic is the TFP??  Is it anti-Catholic to promote the Rosary?  Is it anti-Catholic to fight against abortion?  Is it anti-Catholic to fight against same sex marriage?  Is it anti-Catholic to promote "True devotion to Mary"?

    TFP is fine as long as you don't expect them to go out on a limb on VII. We should probably distinguish Plinio-era TFP with post-Atila TFP. Past TFP is only being brought up now because of TIA's desire to promote it, even going so far as to defend current TFP to do it. There's a lot of crossed wires.
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #69 on: July 14, 2019, 08:47:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Quote
    The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased

    Simple explanation: After the death of Plínio, the TFP split into two parts fighting each other. They even went to court.

    Guimarães and Horvat later split from one of the two.

    But all venerate or worship Plínio.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10306
    • Reputation: +6216/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #70 on: July 14, 2019, 11:55:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Struthio, your response in no way answered my comment.  


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #71 on: July 14, 2019, 11:57:28 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Struthio, your response in no way answered my comment.  

    Well, you didn't say anything I would have to answer.

    Actually, you didn't say anything anyone here would have to answer.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #72 on: July 15, 2019, 12:02:27 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • Look Pax Vobis: Átila is inventing apparitions of Our Lady to further his Plínio-cult.

    Aren't you able to read and grasp the situation?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Alan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 227
    • Reputation: +74/-28
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #73 on: July 15, 2019, 12:23:18 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can’t really trust anyone or any group anymore.   

    That's exactly the outcome that the devil wants !

    "Divide and Conquer" is his favourite tactic.
    He wants to see divisions among Catholics, he love to see Catholics fighting Catholics, and Catholic organisations splitting.

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #74 on: July 15, 2019, 12:30:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That's exactly the outcome that the devil wants !

    "Divide and Conquer" is his favourite tactic.
    He wants to see divisions among Catholics, he love to see Catholics fighting Catholics, and Catholic organisations splitting.

    That's an argument against Lefebvre and an argument against Plínio. Both created organisations that split Catholics from the conciliar mainstream (which both later split further).

    Look: The devil leads you into logical inconsistencies. Like all modernism is contradictory in itself.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)