Author Topic: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group  (Read 8268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23112
  • Reputation: +20267/-246
  • Gender: Male
Warning from a Traditional Catholic priest familiar with the group:


Quote
In case you don’t know TIA is a branch of Tradition Family and Property founded by Plinio Correa de Oliveira in Brazil.

Bp de Castro Mayer, after supporting them, in 1983 publicly dissociated from this organization and condemned them, as they became a real sect evolving into a cult of their founder and esoteric practices.

I knew them very well in South America. They're dangerous!
Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

Offline Incredulous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4928
  • Reputation: +5696/-488
  • Gender: Male
Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 08:22:56 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1


  • This is great information!

    Who was the priest?

    Why are they dangerous?

    Did you know TIA and TFP have been separated for almost 20 years?  Their dispute is on allegiance to the Consiliar church.

    And I suppose in all the debate, Bp. Castro Meyer is absolved from his signatures on the VII documents too?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3182
    • Reputation: +1732/-984
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 10:12:12 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • The SSPX is against Tradition in Action TIA and Atila Guimaraes and company because they publish articles EVERYDAY and publish books about what is really going on, the SSPX does no such thing. TIA publishes daily articles like this one today:

    Francis honors Jeffrey Sachs at ecological meeting
    Jeffrey Sachs, above, second from the left, is one of the main promoters of the UN's abortionist policies around the world. He holds UN titles such as director of the Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN). He also serves as special advisor to the UN Secretary on the Millennium Development Goals.

    He uses these positions to argue that, to prevent poverty and advance economic development, abortion and mass sterilization must be enforced by the UN in many countries through financial pressure and government policies.

     Further, Sachs is an economist who is a close collaborator with magnate George Soros. It is not rare that Sach's environmental initiatives bring substantial gains to Soros investments.

    After Francis' inauguration, Sachs has received preferential treatment at the Vatican. He is habitually quoted as being one of the minds behind the Vatican ecological program, including the draft of Francis' Encyclical


    For full article see https://traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A838-Sach.htm
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Meg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3175
    • Reputation: +1557/-2462
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 01:00:04 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Did you know TIA and TFP have been separated for almost 20 years?  Their dispute is on allegiance to the Consiliar church.


    I don't think that the separation is relevant. After all, both groups seem to have the same views about Plinio de Oliviera, don't they?
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 23112
    • Reputation: +20267/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 12:08:52 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • Here is a translation into English of the letter sent by Bp de Castro Mayer to a friend layman explaining in 1984 the grave reasons why he dissociated from the TFP the year before.

    ———-
    LETTER OF BISHOP DE CASTRO MAYER ON THE TFP

    (The following letter, addressed to a layman friend, dated 1984, was published in the Brazilian newspaper Folha da Manhã in 1991)

    Dear N.,

    I owe you an answer to your painful letter of September 24 [1984] that, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25th.

    In this case I can only give you one advice: pray, pray a lot, above all the [15 decade] Rosary or at least the [5 decade] Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten her son and make him see that the TFP is a heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write, the TFP lives and behaves according to a principle that fundamentally undermines the truth of Christendom, that is, of the Catholic Church.

    Indeed, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church - designed to keep the true worship of God on earth and to bring souls to eternal salvation - as an unequal society composed of two classes: one that governs, teaches, and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and another - the faithful - who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified: This is a dogma de fide.

    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its own nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flock, those belonging to the various levels of the hierarchy, and the multitude of the faithful. These two orders are so utterly distinct that only the hierarchy has the right and authority to guide and govern the members for the purposes of the Church, while the duty of the faithful is to let themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the given path by the ruling class. (Encyclical "Vehementer", February 11, 1906.) The whole history of the Church, as can be seen in the New Testament, attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was only to the Apostles that Jesus said, "Go and teach all nations." Also the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times after Jesus Christ. Because of this, it is a heretical subversion to usually follow a layman - therefore a non-member of the Hierarchy - as a spokesman for orthodoxy. So they do not look at what the Church says, what the bishops say, but what this or that [layman] says... And it does not end there: this attitude - even if not openly stated - in fact positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a sudden but real mistrust of the hierarchy and clergy in general.

    There is a visceral anti-clericalism in the TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is biasedly received. Basically, it is affirmed that all priests are ignorant, lacking zeal or interested and such other characteristics. Well, thus, having in mind the divine constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, the habitual anti-clericalism of the TFP, latent, makes it a heretical sect, and therefore, as I said, animated by a principle contrary to established dogma by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    The TFP, however, had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution in the apostolate made by the biweekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecilia entitled The Legionary.

    As a serious and well-intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of the Congregation and, consequently, of the biweekly readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. This was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I followed and approved of its apostolate, also when it began to fall itself into the anti-clerical spirit, which began by consolidating its positions and then reversing them, putting the Clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman with the monopoly of orthodoxy. Maybe I gave them support beyond a licit point. I withdrew it only when it became clear that my warnings were not being taken into account. They have become useless.

    It is true to note that the deceptions of certain members of the Hierarchy... explain the scandal of the "TFPists", but this does not justify the positions they have taken. And much less for its leader, Plinio.

    In this case, as I said at the beginning of this letter, the remedy is to pray. First, because without prayer nothing is obtained: "Ask," says Our Lord, "and you will receive." It is necessary to pray because charismatic fervor produces a certain fanaticism: individuals become incapable of seeing the objective reality, of perceiving even fundamental errors, because of this inversion of following a layman instead of the legitimate Pastors of the Holy Church. 
    As I have noted, members of the hierarchy unfortunately and often utter words and take positions that any Catholic can see as dissonant of the doctrine and government of the Church of all times...

    I ask Our Lord to give you, and your whole family, a Holy and Merry Christmas and many years full of the grace of God.

    I pray that you pray for me, a servant in Christ Jesus.

    Antônio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1105
    • Reputation: +823/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 03:33:52 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Dear Atila Sinke Guimaraes
    Please give up the TIA and join the SSPX ( or offshoots)
    They Tarzan
    You Dirt
    Everybody else
    Sedevacantists

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4928
    • Reputation: +5696/-488
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 08:41:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Dear Atila Sinke Guimaraes
    Please give up the TIA and join the SSPX ( or offshoots)
    They Tarzan
    You Dirt
    Everybody else
    Sedevacantists


    Atila needs new formation.




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4928
    • Reputation: +5696/-488
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 08:53:57 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1



  • Atila is a scholar, a thinker and a writer.

    He'd be valuable to Fr. Wegner's "Dutch Branding" company, to help write Bp. Fellay's pre-Canonization biography.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Cera

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1578
    • Reputation: +579/-440
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 05:51:15 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2


  • Atila is a scholar, a thinker and a writer.

    He'd be valuable to Fr. Wegner's "Dutch Branding" company, to help write Bp. Fellay's pre-Canonization biography.
    Atila is slave # 11, not a slave to Mary, but a slave to Plinio.

    The following declaration was registered at the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14 1985 in the newspaper La Folha de Manha.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Registry) 3706587, SP, marital status - unmarried, living in Curitiba (Brazil), Manoel C. so Ribas, No 418, swear to be true that when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered into a secret society of that association, known as "Sacred Slavery" [Sempre Viva], also known by its members as "Still Living".

    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Dr Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira in the same sense in which St. Louis de Montfort Grignion recommended it be done for the Madonna. For this consecration, as a slave to Dr. Plinio, was used the same text drawn up by St. Louis for the consecration to Our Lady, with some adaptation.  . . .

    I am not the one who is alive but it is My Lord [Plinio] that lives in me. From him everything comes to me, his spirit is living in me, and I can imitate in this union of  slavery, everything that he is. In the climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, given over to optimism and mediocrity, time will bring great events to us, with great horizons, in which I will have to live as a hero of the same magnitude as My Lord [Plinio]. Looking inside myself and seeing a lot of smallness, I know that faith requires me to imitate My Lord [Plinio], and I will make of myself a perfect Apostle of the Last Times, according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis de Montfort Grignion. In all this I ask My Lord [Plinio] to help my unbelief. "

    Prayers were also recited to him [Plinio], as a parody of the Ave Maria, which incorporate the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elias and himself: . . ." There was also a Litany for him, the 'Doctor', and they said that the prayers had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Plinio Paul).

    In one of these ejaculatory prayers to Dr. Plinio it was prayed: "The forerunner of Elijah, pray for us!"


    The slaves of Dr. Plinio had the habit of confessing to him, confessing their failings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked for a penance, Dr Plinio had the habit of giving three slaps to the face of the slave. Following this, he would impart the blessing.


    Dr. Plinio sat on a small throne with the habit and the mantle of the Third Order. The assistants used a habit without the mantle. The person who was about to be introduced to that company relaxed, as if dead, prostrate upon the ground in front of Dr. Plinio. At this point, from Dr. Plinio, was received the order to stand up to receive a new life and he [Plinio] intoned: "Exsurge." This meant that the person had died and was born a new man, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the Last Times.


    We could not communicate with other members of TFP the existence of "Sacred Slavery," because - of course - of the nature of this secret society.

    The twelve first slaves were:

    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - Plinio Mário.
    2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Plinio Eduardo.
    3) Luiz Nazareno of Assunpção Filho - Plinio Luiz.
    4) João Clá Dias Scognamiglio - Plinio Fernando.
    5) Humberto Braccesi - Plinio Cirineu.
    6) Fernando Siqueira - Plinio Bernardo.
    7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poly - Plinio Jose.
     Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Plinio Paulo.
    9) Mário Navarro da Costa - Plinio Elias.
    10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans e Bragança - Plinio Miguel.
    11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - Plinio Márcio.
    12) Becca Cosme Varella Hijo - Plinio Lázaro.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4928
    • Reputation: +5696/-488
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 06:14:44 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!4


  • Trad -granny... tell me the truth now.


    Is your PhD in the Microsoft cut & paste tool?



    How many times are you going to cut & paste that same old trash?


    Can't you do something else?  

    My goodness ! :farmer:

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline tdrev123

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 516
    • Reputation: +310/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #10 on: June 25, 2019, 06:24:44 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!4
  • So the Bishop said TFP mistrusts the clergy....

    Matthew aren't you a resistance supporter?  The whole point of resistance is mistrusting the clergy!  

    All that letter is was a conciliar bishop who didn't like the fact the TFP thinks there are smarter then the Conciliar church...Um Hello that is what traditional Catholicism is you ignoramus's. 


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 23112
    • Reputation: +20267/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 06:36:14 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • So the Bishop said TFP mistrusts the clergy....

    Matthew aren't you a resistance supporter?  The whole point of resistance is mistrusting the clergy!  

    All that letter is was a conciliar bishop who didn't like the fact the TFP thinks there are smarter then the Conciliar church...Um Hello that is what traditional Catholicism is you ignoramus's.
    Bp. de Castro Mayer wasn't a "conciliar bishop", you ignoramus.
    He rejected Vatican II all the way.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 23112
    • Reputation: +20267/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 06:40:01 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
  • Incredulous, is that the best you can do to rebut that "cut & paste"?

    The content "cut/pasted" by Cera, above, is completely and utterly damning of Plinio, the TFP, etc.!

    After reading that, I understand why the Traditional priest contacted me about the TFP threads on CathInfo. I had already heard bad things about the TFP, so I was inclined to post some warnings anyhow.

    Why don't you at least ATTEMPT to critique the content, rather than blatantly, transparently attacking the messenger for cut/pasting and sharing this important information (once again) with the readers of CathInfo.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Croixalist

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1246
    • Reputation: +842/-215
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 07:23:40 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • The "Trad-Granny" thing is a bit much Incred. Stick to the argument, there's plenty to be had.

    More than Mr. Armour's or Mr. Ablas' detailed testimony, we have Atila attempting to excuse the TFP practice of referring to themselves as "slaves" to Plinio. I don't care if it's in addition to being slaves to Our Lady, St. Montfort did not proscribe any such spiritual obedience to a layman, nor can I imagine a scenario where such a practice would be appropriate. This to me was a major indication that the aforementioned testimonies had at least a kernel of truth to them. It would be helpful if more people came forward about this. We only have insider info from two sources in two different parts of the world and those sources were unknown to begin with and completely disappeared from the traditional scene after they spoke up.

    Whether Atila and TIA know it or not, they are the ones providing the strongest evidence for the disordered foundation of the TFP. By turning their axe to the roots of the SSPX, they reveal the tree rot of their own group and their sole claim to orthodoxy from the onset of the VII era. 
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3182
    • Reputation: +1732/-984
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Warning against TIA, de Oliveira from a priest who knows the group
    « Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 06:50:33 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    In case you don’t know TIA is a branch of Tradition Family and Property founded by Plinio Correa de Oliveira in Brazil.

    Bp de Castro Mayer, after supporting them, in 1983 publicly dissociated from this organization and condemned them, as they became a real sect evolving into a cult of their founder and esoteric practices.

    I knew them very well in South America. They're dangerous!
    This says nothing, it is just one priest's warning, why should anyone listen to an anonymous priest who says just that "they are dangerous"? How exactly are they dangerous? No organization today is without a dangerous feature and one has to be aware of it, but to dismiss the TIA website with all of its pure Catholic teachings because a priest says Plinio was dangerous, is pure foolishness.

    It is akin to I totally dismissing the SSPX and all of the sede groups because they teach that Mohamedans, Jews, Hindus.... people in any false religion can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, in fact, it is worse to dismiss the TIA website, for they do not teach, push any such teachings. (P.S.- I've been going to SSPX chapels for over 20 years and I would go to a sede chapel if there was one close by, as long as I was certain about the validity of the priest)
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16