Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: bvmknight

Why is [it] going to be Bishop De Galarreta when Bishop Tissier lives a few hours from Winona?

Duuuuh.   :tinfoil:  Thanks. I needed that.  


Good question.  Next time I'll PM you first, bvmknight.  HAHAHHAHHAAHA


But seriously, why indeed -- looks a little like PILING COALS ON HIS HEAD
to me!  A cold, Arctic wind-in-the-face to +de Galarreta and a cold slap in
the face to +de Mallerais.  Or, shall we say "the gauntlet?"

Now, this is just speculation, but it seems to me that the reason would have
to be that this is a PUNISHMENT for his DARING to give such an inflammatory
sermon a couple of weeks ago - one that cannot be verified but one of which
the word has nonetheless spread 'round the world as if it were a voice crying
out in the wilderness.  This, IMHO, is 'what you get' when you dare to say
things that 'We' don't want you to say! IMHO.

Just a hunch.  Like putting salt in the wound, really.

Maybe Incredulous or Telesphorus or Ethelred or SOMEONE has a better idea???

Ecclesia-Militans?  The Recusant????  





EDIT:  suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps the M-ds set +TdM up for
this, by egging him on in some way about a month or two ago, such that
he would be irked enough to speak out a couple of weeks ago in that
purloined sermon-that-wasn't-recorded.....................

Good point. I didn't think about it.

You may be onto something?

Consider that a Frenchman is emotionally, less predictable.




Just think it if he "lost it" and created a scene at Ordinations?

Whoo...weee!  Bp. Fellay would be hard pressed to keep a lid on it.

Yep, it may be safer to bring in the stable and relatively passive Spaniard?

They may not be asleep. Too bad +Tissier's recent letter to SSPX priests has not yet been "leaked".

Quote from: VinnyF

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: bvmknight

Why is [it] going to be Bishop De Galarreta when Bishop Tissier lives a few hours from Winona?

Duuuuh.   :tinfoil:  Thanks. I needed that.  


Good question.  Next time I'll PM you first, bvmknight.  HAHAHHAHHAAHA


But seriously, why indeed -- looks a little like PILING COALS ON HIS HEAD
to me!  A cold, Arctic wind-in-the-face to +de Galarreta and a cold slap in
the face to +de Mallerais.  Or, shall we say "the gauntlet?"

Now, this is just speculation, but it seems to me that the reason would have
to be that this is a PUNISHMENT for his DARING to give such an inflammatory
sermon a couple of weeks ago - one that cannot be verified but one of which
the word has nonetheless spread 'round the world as if it were a voice crying
out in the wilderness.  This, IMHO, is 'what you get' when you dare to say
things that 'We' don't want you to say! IMHO.

Just a hunch.  Like putting salt in the wound, really.

Maybe Incredulous or Telesphorus or Ethelred or SOMEONE has a better idea???

Ecclesia-Militans?  The Recusant????  





EDIT:  suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps the M-ds set +TdM up for
this, by egging him on in some way about a month or two ago, such that
he would be irked enough to speak out a couple of weeks ago in that
purloined sermon-that-wasn't-recorded.....................

Good point. I didn't think about it.

You may be onto something?

Consider that a Frenchman is emotionally, less predictable.




Just think it if he "lost it" and created a scene at Ordinations?

Whoo...weee!  Bp. Fellay would be hard pressed to keep a lid on it.

Yep, it may be safer to bring in the stable and relatively passive Spaniard?

They may not be asleep. Too bad +Tissier's recent letter to SSPX priests has not yet been "leaked".

For fun, I shall dislike your comment. Do send my regards to John De Lallo.Two loyal sons of Judas Fellay.

Top o' the mornin' to you John!  I would pass on your kindest regards if I knew who they were.  And thanks for the dislike .. it helps. I liked your comment to demonstrate fraternal charity!

Quote from: Sigismund

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Sigismund

Neil,

Do you think these men are not bishops?

Sorry, Sigs, you'll have to be more descriptive.  
Do you think I can read minds?
I might be slow, but I'll get there.
So long as I'm not the last one in Purgatory.  HAHAHHAHA

Well, the quotation marks around their names implies that you don't think they are really bishops, but that other people say they are, just as a sedevacantis might type "Pope" Francis.  I may have misunderstood, or you may have simply been quiting someone else.

I can't see any reason for any Catholic to question the validity of the SSPX bishops' consecrations.  

You're still not making sense.  

Please provide for me some indication of where I used "quotation marks around
their names"  -- here are my two posts, for your convenience:  

Quote from: Neil Obstat

I just had to share this with the gang.  I just had to...........





The announcements arrived in the mail today from Winona, that on Friday, June 21, 2013, at 9:00 am in Winona, Minnesota, St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary is pleased to announce the ordination [sic] of (names of 12 clerics follow)

TO THE SACRED PRIESTHOOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST

BY

HIS EXCELLENCY BISHOP ALPHONSO [sic] DE GALARETTA [sic]

I don't know about you, but if I were Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, I would be deeply offended.  Not only do they dare to misspell his name TWICE ON THE SAME PAGE, they do not mention his name anywhere else in the announcement or in the attached letter, or in the accompanying brochure, where the names of several newfangled younger priests' names are promoted like the latest and greatest, or whatever.

Shall we only wonder if they managed to also misspell his name on the formal invitations sent out to the families of the ordinands????  Okay, I'll wonder for you, so you don't have to ........... wonder .......... wonder ........... wonder .............. :confused1:

Do we have to wonder just how close to the brink of being thrown out like yesterday's newspapers Bishop de Galarreta is, and how much he has been yanked around like a useful machine to do what he is told without having to think about it much?  They can't be bothered to pay attention to how his name is properly spelt, after what, 24.875 years of being a bishop for the SSPX?  If they can't get it right now, it TELLS ME THEY ARE PLANNING TO NOT GET IT RIGHT WHEN THEY EXPEL HIM, EITHER.  Take that to the bank, you denizens of Menzingen!  And while you're at it, show it to Maxie -- oh, he's probably already seen it.  Never mind!

So, this is going to be a group ordination?  Last time I checked, "ordination" is singular in number.  But I had thought that ordinations are individual.  Maybe we're in for a REALLY special treat? How does Bishop de Galarreta [sic] plan to lay hands on 12 men at the same time?????

Now, I haven't checked the spelling of the names of the candidates, but I would not at all be surprised if there are a few more "flies in the ointment" as it were.

I know, I know, "Why do you have to be so hateful?" I can hear them chiming like the death-knells of the Black Plague.  But life must go on.........



What more does it take?  First their brother bishop is unjustly expelled, and now, he has majestically been freed to be a bishop again, much to the chagrin and embarrassment of the Menzingen-denizens!  



How much more of this will the other two good bishops need to see, before they pick up their cross and follow HIM?  





I must say, that I am grateful for the correspondence from Fr. Yves le Roux, from whom I continue to receive these announcements and things ever since +W was chased out of Winona like some unwelcome contagion so many years ago, and whose Seminary Letters from Winona were so deeply missed; only to be, by the grace of God, replaced with the marvelous Eleison Comments which, Deo gracias! continue to this day.  FWIW, there has yet to be a single example of the former's product that can hold a candle to a single example of the latter's, IYKWIM.




Maybe one of his friends can get a "leaked" copy of this little news to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, with his name properly spelled, who is under armed guard apparently, in exile, apparently, behind bars, apparently, or is it "merely house arrest?"  For when he stands up, he will take half the world with him, and perhaps even Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, with HIS name likewise properly spelled!

If so, the good bishop should know, that the ever-growing prayers of the surging Resistance rise to heaven in waves like a sweet odor of incense, and may God be glorified in all things.  

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: bvmknight

Why is [it] going to be Bishop De Galarreta when Bishop Tissier lives a few hours from Winona?

Duuuuh.   :tinfoil:  Thanks. I needed that.  


Good question.  Next time I'll PM you first, bvmknight.  HAHAHHAHHAAHA


But seriously, why indeed -- looks a little like PILING COALS ON HIS HEAD
to me!  A cold, Arctic wind-in-the-face to +de Galarreta and a cold slap in
the face to +de Mallerais.  Or, shall we say "the gauntlet?"

Now, this is just speculation, but it seems to me that the reason would have
to be that this is a PUNISHMENT for his DARING to give such an inflammatory
sermon a couple of weeks ago - one that cannot be verified but one of which
the word has nonetheless spread 'round the world as if it were a voice crying
out in the wilderness.  This, IMHO, is 'what you get' when you dare to say
things that 'We' don't want you to say! IMHO.

Just a hunch.  Like putting salt in the wound, really.

Maybe Incredulous or Telesphorus or Ethelred or SOMEONE has a better idea???

Ecclesia-Militans?  The Recusant????  





EDIT:  suddenly it occurs to me that perhaps the M-ds set +TdM up for
this, by egging him on in some way about a month or two ago, such that
he would be irked enough to speak out a couple of weeks ago in that
purloined sermon-that-wasn't-recorded.....................

I must be blind or something, because I can't find any quotation marks
around any bishops' names in my posts.  Where do you see them?

Neil,

I think Sigismund just made a mistake.  

I know that I have done this myself.  I read "So Well Remembered" by the same guy who rode "The Citadel" and I can't remember his name at the moment but I did rewrite the last several paragraphs in my mind of his book "So Well Remembered" and, while I try not to brag, I did like my version better.  I noticed that I had conjured up a change to the last several paragraphs when I reread the last several pages of the book.

I think it would be wise for the SSPX to consecrate more bishops.  

Why would the SSPX need more Bishops? They already have three. Maybe it would be wise for Bishop Williamson to consecrate another Bishop, but not the SSPX. They wouldn't consecrate more Bishops because that might anger Rome and bring on new excommunications and the SSPX wouldn't do that because they want to make a deal with Rome.

Look, either there is some spelling and grammar deficiencies at these ordinations or someone is being very disrespectful.  Neil has a good point.  It's not just about getting the spelling correct.  It shows a real lack of concern.

Matto, I want more SSPX bishops, two more, and yes, I definitely would like to see Bishop Williamson join forces with one of the sede bishops an consecrate one bishop.

[/quote]
What year was it when +W went to Argentina?  It seems like it was around
2004 or 2005 as I recall.  Now, having him out of Winona wouldn't make it
impossible for him to remain "in the rotation" for ordinations, as all the
bishops travel the world.  But he was obviously removed anyway, as this
list shows, 2004 being his last year.  Then 2008 would have been his next
turn, but +Fellay took that spot even though he had just been there two
years earlier.

Also, I read on one site that +F had ordained one priest in 2012, early in
the year at Winona (photo in previous post), even though +TdM was there
later (probably June) the same year for several ordinations.  

I'm not trying to "make any point" here.
[/quote]

Another wrinkle to add to the discussion…

In regards to Bishop Fellay being the celebrant of ordinations in 2008 rather than Bishop Williamson (when it would have been his year in the rotation) I took a look at Verbum for July 2008, which would presumably have had information about the ordinands. It appears the ordinations in June 2008 at Winona were only diaconal ordinations, as I only see deacons pictured. This could be wrong, so if that’s wrong somebody can correct me.

I do remember 2008 being the last low-number year for SSPX Priest ordinations before the large numbers coming in the post-2008 years. I wasn’t sure about that but I am sure about one other thing I hadn’t thought of…there was at least one USA ordination in 2008. It was the ordination of Rev. Fr. Benjamin Campbell at St. Vincent de Paul, and the ordaining Bishop was Bishop Williamson.

Quote from: Neil Obstat

What year was it when +W went to Argentina?  It seems like it was around
2004 or 2005 as I recall.  Now, having him out of Winona wouldn't make it
impossible for him to remain "in the rotation" for ordinations, as all the
bishops travel the world.  But he was obviously removed anyway, as this
list shows, 2004 being his last year.  Then 2008 would have been his next
turn, but +Fellay took that spot even though he had just been there two
years earlier.

Also, I read on one site that +F had ordained one priest in 2012, early in
the year at Winona (photo in previous post), even though +TdM was there
later (probably June) the same year for several ordinations.  

I'm not trying to "make any point" here.

Another wrinkle to add to the discussion…

In regards to Bishop Fellay being the celebrant of ordinations in 2008 rather than Bishop Williamson (when it would have been his year in the rotation) I took a look at Verbum for July 2008, which would presumably have had information about the ordinands. It appears the ordinations in June 2008 at Winona were only diaconal ordinations, as I only see deacons pictured. This could be wrong, so if that’s wrong somebody can correct me.

I do remember 2008 being the last low-number year for SSPX Priest ordinations before the large numbers coming in the post-2008 years. I wasn’t sure about that but I am sure about one other thing I hadn’t thought of…there was at least one USA ordination in 2008. It was the ordination of Rev. Fr. Benjamin Campbell at St. Vincent de Paul, and the ordaining Bishop was Bishop Williamson.

Thanks cath4ever, that helps fill in the gaps.  

I'd like to know if anyone out there is aware of the reasons for the low
numbers of ordinations, which decreased each year to the nadir of 2008,
as you say.  I recall hearing about that at the time.  Maybe Matthew or
one of the other members here can recall.  Why did numbers decline so?
and then all of a sudden there was a huge increase around 2009 or 10.

It sounds like +F was waiting for this 'new breed' of priest that he had
been grooming DELIBERATELY, the ones that Fr. Pfeiffer laments, that
the formation of the old style priests like his class is not there anymore,
and this new breed is different.  

How does an SG implement such changes in the output of a seminary
without anyone noticing?  He must have changed the curriculum
somehow, and I'd like to know how that was done without it being
noticed as a policy change.  This is where the real secrecy was,
then, this is how they got all geared up for not being up-front with
their changes -- it was in the seminaries of the Society where this
tactic and plan was first implemented and where the methods were
first put into place.  

There must be some kind of record of how this was
planned and implemented.  Someone on the inside must
have been wise to the goings-on.  There must be a story
here that has not been told,  one that has been
deliberately kept buried,
insomuch as to deceive (if possible)
even the elect (Matt. xxiv. 24).