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Author Topic: Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion  (Read 4494 times)

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Offline John Grace

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Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 05:37:07 PM »
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  • Quote
    a brand of 1950s Catholicism where Catholicism is relegated to Sunday but has nothing to to with the rest of our lives.


    How I approach this topic with people is to offer them a copy of an essay called "Why Catholics Are Cowards". Many people find it beneficial.

    Only the other day, somebody thanked me for advice I gave them a couple of years ago. They have become very active social teaching, Catholic Action apostle's.

    'My Life With Thomas Aquinas' or 'Action' by Ousset are books I give to people.

    I'm used to being active but I don't mean to disparage others. I feel it important to propagate.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 05:58:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    The piece from Nicholas Wansbutter, Esq  is an excellent summary of which most people would agree.


    After my dealing with novus ordo and even now neo sspx /...don't know who to trust.

    So, Nicholas wansbutter a good guy?
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Incredulous

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 06:00:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote
    He's respectful the game's facilitator "mother frump" and he doesn't get into the subject of the Jєωs.


    Not wishing to bicker but I do disagree. Even this tirade against Clare is too much.Yes, I disagreed with them over removing a certain file because I know the information to be true, and certainly would have gone to court with them had it gone that far.

    You missed the point regarding  Nicholas Wansbutter, Esq

    As for Mc Farland, who really cares.

    Whilst I don't hate Patricius, I dislike him but hopefully people pray for him.

    As for the Jєωs,it's not necessary to be foaming at the mouth about them or on about them every day. Just be aware of them.



    Sorry, I ignored your highlights and was commenting on his post in toto.

    Patricius was amiable to me.
    The forum was okay until he opened the gates to the pro-Fellayites.
    Included were 8, not so innocent members, who were on Sarto's ban list.

    I don't recall any tribe posts that were "foaming", and yes, like good serpents, we should be aware of them everyday.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline PAT317

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 06:06:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Exactly!  

    Where is the emphasis on the Social Reign of Christ?


    Here is what +F said when asked about "the Ideal State"

    Quote
    Catholic News Service interview with Bishop Fellay, 11 May 2012.


    1st part of CNS-Interview with Bishop Fellay


    “Traditionalist leader talks about his movement, Rome”

    03:06 The ideal state

    Just in itself the best situation is when you have the whole society which is going the same way. It also helps to unity, to peace, to everything. And of course religion is a major part in the human heart and if you are one in the religion, it helps to have this peace and I may say, well, that’s the commandment of our Lord to his Church: We have to go to all nations and teach them what our Lord said. Now, when you are in a situation which is a mixed situation, which is, let say, the reality, I would say, well, that's not the ideal but that's the situation which you are.  And that's, let's say, where you have to do your job, your duty as a Christian. So you have to give this witness to the others, you must try to help them. We want everybody to have that wonderful happiness of heaven and trying to bring them to this knowledge.



    What would Archbishop Lefebvre think of this answer?   :facepalm:


    Offline Marlelar

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 06:36:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote
    a brand of 1950s Catholicism where Catholicism is relegated to Sunday but has nothing to to with the rest of our lives.


    How I approach this topic with people is to offer them a copy of an essay called "Why Catholics Are Cowards". Many people find it beneficial.

     


    Where can I find the essay?

    Marsha


    Offline bowler

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #20 on: October 24, 2012, 09:32:29 PM »
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  • What American, or English speaker remembers a speech or a writing from Bishop Fellay?  I doubt any American even bothered to read what +Fellay has written. He just does not know how to communicate in English. Maybe he does in some other language?  Few English speaking persons really know +Fellay, he is just a Bishop that writes something once in a while, that no one reads all the way through.

    On the other hand, I could bring up hundreds of letters from +Williamson since I came to ther SSPX like 15 years (Same for Fr. Timothy Pfieffers letters from the Ridgefield Retreat House), which are excellent communications. In English speaking countries, there is no comparison, Bishop Willaiamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words.

    English speaking peoples will not easily side with +Fellay if he is opposed to +Williamson. Without +Williamson the SSPX becomes a distant foreign thing to them.

    Offline PAT317

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #21 on: October 24, 2012, 10:20:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    What American, or English speaker remembers a speech or a writing from Bishop Fellay?  I doubt any American even bothered to read what +Fellay has written. He just does not know how to communicate in English. Maybe he does in some other language?  Few English speaking persons really know +Fellay, he is just a Bishop that writes something once in a while, that no one reads all the way through.

    On the other hand, I could bring up hundreds of letters from +Williamson since I came to ther SSPX like 15 years (Same for Fr. Timothy Pfieffers letters from the Ridgefield Retreat House, which are excellent communications. In English speaking countries, there is no comparison, Bishop Willaiamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words.

    English speaking peoples will not easily side with +Fellay if he is opposed to +Williamson. Without +Williamson the SSPX becomes a distant foreign thing to the English speaking peoples.


    Yes, and I don't think it's just the language.  Before Fr. T. Pfeiffer, a French priest was in charge of the Ridgefield Retreat House, and he wrote a newsletter, and I learned tons from that, as well as his sermons, as I'm sure many people did.  Somehow he managed to teach in English, even though French was his first language.  

    Also, how many people of different languages around the world have learned a lot from +W?  How much have native French speakers learned from +F?   I used to read +F's letters way back when, and there were some good things in them, but I definitely can't point to anything I've learned from them, or been particularly inspired by.  It's a combination of many factors; it helps that +W is a natural born, extremely gifted teacher.  
    Part of it is that +W is a straight-shooter.  +F seems to have an increasingly difficult time saying something straightforward like, "2+2=4."  Even if he wants to say it, he seems to couch it in some excess stuff like, "we may say that 2+2 is, we may say, I really have the impression, is generally considered to be 4..."  Another part of it, I think, is that +W gives practical application.  (Likewise Fr. Tim Pfeiffer as you mentioned, and the French priest before him.)  If I hear a sermon or read a newsletter that says, "be holy," that's all very nice, but how? What should I do/stop doing/do differently?  I can't really think of any changes I've made to my life specifically because of +F's influence, but there are lots I can think of thanks to +W and other SSPX priests who give practical examples.  
     
    Another example of the phenomenon you mentioned, is that on retreat, I can recall the priests citing numerous times:  "As Bishop Williamson used to say..."   Again, part of this is because +W taught for many years, and +F never has.   All I've heard +F talk about for the last 12 years is "relations with Rome."   Plus - this could be partly the language thing - but also rarely if ever hear, "as +Bp. TdM used to say" or "as +Bp. dG used to say..."  I think it's primarily that +W realizes that there is a crisis such has never been seen before in the Church, and he wants to save souls by waking us up to it in every way possible, by teaching as much as possible, in whatever forum he can.  I thought part of the duty of a bishop was to teach.   :confused1:  I didn't think they were supposed to be just Sacrament machines.  Especially in times when all the other bishops around the world are either not teaching, or teaching badly.  
    Anyhow, I think you summed it up well:

    "Bishop Williamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words."  



    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #22 on: October 24, 2012, 11:21:05 PM »
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  • I've appreciated reading the posts in this thread.  Very good observations.



    One thing that should be addressed:

    Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    Quote from: John Grace
    The piece from Nicholas Wansbutter, Esq  is an excellent summary [with] which most people would agree.


    After my dealing with novus ordo and even now neo sspx /...don't know who to trust.

    So, Nicholas wansbutter a good guy?


    (People do not agree of a summary, they agree with a summary.)

    Nicholas Wansbutter is a soft-spoken and loyal assistant of +Williamson, who was
    the Dinoscopus editor for a long time, until such time as he had to go do other
    things, and the website was changing or whatever.  I really think there was no
    personal division going on, just different callings.  You can easily see by the tone
    and content of his post, that he bears no grudge or desires no conflict.  So yes,
    I'd say he is a "good guy."


    One observation I'd like to offer is, that among the SSPX priests now ordained,
    it is the ones formed under the guidance and tutelage of +W who are the most
    well-prepared and traditional priests in the Society.  Furthermore, all of the most
    liberal-leaning priests in the Society were trained, formed and taught by someone
    other than +W.  Therefore, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

    I really believe it would be a great boon to the Church if +W could establish
    a new seminary.  I know of several candidates who are hoping for this to happen.

    And I know there are supporters who would help financially.

    And there must be priests who have similar sentiments, but whether they are
    willing to come out saying so is another thing, unfortunately................




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    Offline Ethelred

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    Wise words about Bp Williamson expulsion
    « Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 03:35:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Bowler
    English speaking peoples will not easily side with +Fellay if he is opposed to +Williamson. Without +Williamson the SSPX becomes a distant foreign thing to them.

    Yes, that's true. And the good thing is that this applies to Catholics world-wide who still want to follow the legacy of Archbishop Lefebvre, because the brave Bishop Williamson operates international.

    In autumn of 2009, providence made the good bishop to start the international publication of his extremely important Eleison Comments: since then he publishes his weekly ECs in English, Spanish, German, Italian and French.
    Maybe he sensed that one day there will be a clash? I don't think he reckoned in 2009 that he would be expelled soon... It looks like God's plan, because now the good Bishop Williamson has a very, very solid "user base" all around the world: Catholics who're not sleeping, thanks to the bishop. The longer you read the ECs, the more solid you're in the Catholic Faith applied to the world, and so you're more fire-proof against liberalism and lies. The ECs are a lifebelt for us Catholics (priests and laypeople!), like the bishop wrote in his now published Open Letter.


    Quote from: Bowler
    What American, or English speaker remembers a speech or a writing from Bishop Fellay?  I doubt any American even bothered to read what +Fellay has written. He just does not know how to communicate in English. Maybe he does in some other language?

    Well, not in German for sure. He speaks my language worse than he speaks English. And this is surprising, because his mother was Swiss-German and his father Swiss-French. But since he was raised in the Swiss-French fifth of Switzerland, obviously German has not been his mother-language, or he has totally forgotten it.


    "Bishop Williamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words."
    Absolutely. Just look at the latter's CNS interview: it's an embarrassment. All the more when you watch its video and see the countenance.

    Let's follow Bishop Williamson. He's got a clear mind and a clear language, understandable in many parts of the world due to his linguistic talent. He's an ideal instrument of God. And his new Open Letter shows that he's now "freer" than ever, and so he can now fight with both hands! So far his right arm was cuffed behind the back by Menzingen... :-)