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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 12:28:48 PM

Title: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 12:28:48 PM
1) Is Vatican II compatible with Tradition?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


2) Do you say the new Mass, ever?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


3) Is the conciliar church the Catholic Church?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


4) Were you ordained in the old rite?

Strickland: No
Vigano: Yes


5) Should we reinstitute the old sacramental rites?

Strickland: No
Vigano: Yes


6) Was Vatican II a true ecuмenical council?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


7) Is Francis a true pope?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


8) Are all the conciliar pontificates questionable?

Strickland: No
Vigano: Yes


9) Should we go back to the pre-Pian Holy Week?

Strickland: No
Vigano: Yes


10) Can Vatican II be corrected to make it traditional?

Strickland: Yes
Vigano: No


The same could be largely said of all the other conservatives: Muller, Schneider, Burke, Sarah, etc.  

It is THEY who are the controlled opposition.  Vigano, on the other hand, is cut from a different cloth.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Meg on November 12, 2023, 12:45:12 PM
Strickland has never said that he is a traditionalist, and it is obvious that he isn't a traditionalist. There's no indication that he has any interest in being a traditionalist, or in being a spokesman for Tradition, as Vigano is. (though Strickland has learned the TLM recently). He's a conservative. Still, he stood up for certain true doctrines, and complained about and criticized Francis, and for that he got into hot water. 


Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 12:47:12 PM
Strickland has never said that he is a traditionalist, and it is obvious that he isn't a traditionalist. There's no indication that he has any interest in being a traditionalist, or in being a spokesman for Tradition, as Vigano is. (though Strickland has learned the TLM recently). He's a conservative. Still, he stood up for certain true doctrines, and complained about and criticized Francis, and for that he got into hot water.

Meg-

Please show me where Strickland says he’s a traditionalist.  He’s not.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Meg on November 12, 2023, 12:48:46 PM
Meg-

Please show me where Strickland says he’s a traditionalist.  He’s not.

Say what? Where did I say that Strickland is a traditionlist? did you even read my post? 
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 12:50:47 PM
Say what? Where did I say that Strickland is a traditionlist? did you even read my post?

I’m not sure why you’re defending him.  He ends his prayers with “Amen” (which in Italian is “so be it,” a clear Masonic reference and signal).  Quit trying to make him out as traditional.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on November 12, 2023, 12:53:38 PM
I’m not sure why you’re defending him.  He ends his prayers with “Amen” (which in Italian is “so be it,” a clear Masonic reference and signal).  Quit trying to make him out as traditional.

😂
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Meg on November 12, 2023, 12:55:49 PM
I’m not sure why you’re defending him.  He ends his prayers with “Amen” (which in Italian is “so be it,” a clear Masonic reference and signal).

Given that you only respond emotionally, I shouldn't even reply to you. 

You are the one who is comparing Strickland and Vigano. Isn't it obvious that Vigano considers himself to be a trad, and a spokesman for Tradition, and Strickland does not think of himself in that manner? 

Obviously, Strickland is not a trad. Do you understand what I mean when I say this? Or is it too difficult to understand? 

Go ahead and compare them, but at least be realistic. They are both very different. 
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 01:03:21 PM
Given that you only respond emotionally, I shouldn't even reply to you.

You are the one who is comparing Strickland and Vigano. Isn't it obvious that Vigano considers himself to be a trad, and a spokesman for Tradition, and Strickland does not think of himself in that manner?

Obviously, Strickland is not a trad. Do you understand what I mean when I say this? Or is it too difficult to understand?

Go ahead and compare them, but at least be realistic. They are both very different.

Defend Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ all you want, but Strickland is no trad, no matter how emotional you get.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Meg on November 12, 2023, 01:08:30 PM
Defend Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ all you want, but Strickland is no trad, no matter how emotional you get.

Okay, I get it. Don't worry, I won't post on your thread again. :laugh1:
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 01:12:31 PM
Okay, I get it. Don't worry, I won't post on your thread again. :laugh1:

You can post all you want, as long as you quit defending Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and trying to pass Strickland off as a trad.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: MiserereMei on November 12, 2023, 08:45:57 PM
You can post all you want, as long as you quit defending Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and trying to pass Strickland off as a trad.
In her post Meg said he was conservative, not trad.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
In her post Meg said he was conservative, not trad.

I agree that she is wrong to consider him a trad.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: hgodwinson on November 12, 2023, 09:11:41 PM
I’m not sure why you’re defending him.  He ends his prayers with “Amen” (which in Italian is “so be it,” a clear Masonic reference and signal).  Quit trying to make him out as traditional.
Is this a joke? I end every prayer with Amen.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 12, 2023, 09:19:07 PM
Is this a joke? I end every prayer with Amen.
Meg and Miser have exposed it as a Masonic plot.  They are currently in hiding for their lives, eluding Viganò’s hit squads.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Stubborn on November 13, 2023, 04:15:27 AM
I agree that she is wrong to consider him a trad.
Strickland has never said that he is a traditionalist, and it is obvious that he isn't a traditionalist. There's no indication that he has any interest in being a traditionalist, or in being a spokesman for Tradition, as Vigano is. (though Strickland has learned the TLM recently). He's a conservative. Still, he stood up for certain true doctrines, and complained about and criticized Francis, and for that he got into hot water.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 13, 2023, 05:21:42 AM
Thanks for highlighting my refutation of Meg’s false position, Stubborn!  There’s no way Strickland is a trad (and his use of the Masonic “Amen” is deeply concerning).  Pure Rosicrucian Opus Deism!

Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Barry on November 13, 2023, 06:24:00 AM
Meg said:


Quote
Strickland has never said that he is a traditionalist, and it is obvious that he isn't a traditionalist. 


Do you agree or disagree with this statement?  Yes or no.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on November 13, 2023, 06:52:04 AM
Thanks for highlighting my refutation of Meg’s false position, Stubborn!  There’s no way Strickland is a trad (and his use of the Masonic “Amen” is deeply concerning).  Pure Rosicrucian Opus Deism!

In fairness to Meg, she never said that he was a trad.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Ladislaus on November 13, 2023, 06:54:58 AM
It is THEY who are the controlled opposition.  Vigano, on the other hand, is cut from a different cloth.

I'm not sure these other conservative Conciliars are controlled opposition.  In my mind, the leading candidate for such a role is Athanasius Schneider.  He'll go most of the way there, and then gate-keep.  He promotes Traditional things but then asserts that V2 could be fixed with one or two slight corrections.  It was that position against which +Vigano famously came out on June 9, 2020 as a full Traditionalist.  Recently, Schneider issued a paper promoting an opinion that has not been held by anyone since St. Robert Bellarmine refuted it, namely, that there's no way for a heretical pope to be removed either by God or ministerially by the Church.  Seems to be protecting Bergoglio while promoting various Traditional Catholic principles.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Ladislaus on November 13, 2023, 06:57:35 AM
While +Strickland is no Trad, he did take a significant step in the right direction, using language similar to +Lefebvre's in the early days, where he said that those who defend Tradition and the deposit of faith are not the schismatics, but rather those who undermine it.  Now that he's been cancelled by Jorge, my hope is that he gets in touch with +Vigano and may be influenced in the right direction.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 13, 2023, 06:58:23 AM
Meg said:



Do you agree or disagree with this statement?  Yes or no.

This is a highly emotional statement designed to cover legitimate concerns regarding Strickland, which Meg would prefer we overlooked, to pass him off as a traditionalist.

PS: I hope my exposure of Strickland will not result in my demise.  If anything should happen to me, look there first!
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 13, 2023, 06:59:25 AM
In fairness to Meg, she never said that he was a trad.

I agree Meg should not be passing Strickland off as a trad!
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Stubborn on November 13, 2023, 07:03:40 AM
In fairness to Meg, she never said that he was a trad.
I agree Meg should not be passing Strickland off as a trad!
This does not compute. What am I missing?
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Barry on November 13, 2023, 08:01:12 AM
All, is there anyone here who disagrees with this statement of Meg's (regardless of any other statements)?


Quote
Strickland has never said that he is a traditionalist, and it is obvious that he isn't a traditionalist. 

Are we all in agreement that this statement is true (even if we don't agree on other things)?
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Stubborn on November 13, 2023, 08:06:01 AM
All, is there anyone here who disagrees with this statement of Meg's (regardless of any other statements)?


Are we all in agreement that this statement is true (even if we don't agree on other things)?
I want to say we all agree except Sean who is trying to pass Strickland off as a trad lol
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 13, 2023, 08:06:43 AM
This does not compute. What am I missing?

You are missing that which Meg understand way back in her 2nd response:

This is a trolling exercise, designed to help Meg (and Miser) experience the frustration they cause others with regard to Vigano, by tirelessly repeating the same refuted arguments over and over, as though they hadn’t been addressed at all.

I thought that was pretty obvious, but apparently not.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Ladislaus on November 13, 2023, 09:05:20 AM
I thought that was pretty obvious, but apparently not.

I saw what you were doing right out of the gate.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on November 13, 2023, 09:38:21 AM
“So mote it be”is Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ jargon.

Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: B from A on November 13, 2023, 09:44:04 AM

I thought that was pretty obvious, but apparently not.

It was to me.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on November 13, 2023, 09:44:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OCHKEkV.png)
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Ladislaus on November 13, 2023, 09:44:58 AM
You are missing that which Meg understand way back in her 2nd response:

This is a trolling exercise, designed to help Meg (and Miser) experience the frustration they cause others with regard to Vigano, by tirelessly repeating the same refuted arguments over and over, as though they hadn’t been addressed at all.

I thought that was pretty obvious, but apparently not.

You forgot to add that Bishop Williamson is a Rosicrucian because he has a rose and a cross on his coat of arms.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Ladislaus on November 13, 2023, 09:52:12 AM
“So mote it be”is Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ jargon.

See, these slanders persist because the original culprits have refused to retract them.

1) +Vigano did not use the term "mote".
2) +Vigano did not use any such terms, since he was writing in Italian.
3) Translator rendered an Italian expression "So may it be."
4) This is a typical translation of "Amen" in Italian.
5) We had someone here post a picture of a pre-Vatican II Tridentine Italian Missal that showed the Latin "Amen" as translated to the Italian equivalent of "So may it be."
6) Same poster attested to the fact that his Traditional Catholic Italian priest concludes his sermons with the the Italian "So may it be."
7) You do realize, right?, that Masons rip off expressions from various religious, including Catholic, Jєωιѕн, etc. and just because a Mason has appropriated a term doesn't mean it's inherently Masonic.

Can we put this stupidity to bed and have the original slanderers retract this nonsense?

See, this is why sins of detraction, calumny, and slander are so vicious, because once they're unleashed, it's very difficult to undo the damage done even with retractions.  Once something is out there, it stays out there ... so good luck repairing the damage done to someone's reputation.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Catholic Knight on November 14, 2023, 06:53:57 AM
Recently, Schneider issued a paper promoting an opinion that has not been held by anyone since St. Robert Bellarmine refuted it, namely, that there's no way for a heretical pope to be removed either by God or ministerially by the Church. 
 
Bishop Schneider holds to the Third Opinion of the Five Opinions expounded upon by St. Robert Bellarmine.  Unfortunately, there are others, even with the so-called Resistance, who hold to the Third Opinion.  This opinion has probably never enjoyed as much success as it does today.  Sad but true.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Meg on November 14, 2023, 07:15:14 AM
See, these slanders persist because the original culprits have refused to retract them.

1) +Vigano did not use the term "mote".
2) +Vigano did not use any such terms, since he was writing in Italian.
3) Translator rendered an Italian expression "So may it be."
4) This is a typical translation of "Amen" in Italian.
5) We had someone here post a picture of a pre-Vatican II Tridentine Italian Missal that showed the Latin "Amen" as translated to the Italian equivalent of "So may it be."
6) Same poster attested to the fact that his Traditional Catholic Italian priest concludes his sermons with the the Italian "So may it be."
7) You do realize, right?, that Masons rip off expressions from various religious, including Catholic, Jєωιѕн, etc. and just because a Mason has appropriated a term doesn't mean it's inherently Masonic.

Can we put this stupidity to bed and have the original slanderers retract this nonsense?

See, this is why sins of detraction, calumny, and slander are so vicious, because once they're unleashed, it's very difficult to undo the damage done even with retractions.  Once something is out there, it stays out there ... so good luck repairing the damage done to someone's reputation.

It is only slander when a person knows that the person criticized is not guilty of any wrongdoing, but promotes the wrongdoing anyway. You know this.
In fact, you are the one slandering those of us who have serious concerns about Vigano, because you know that we mean what we say, and still you persist with the slander, detraction, and calumny accusation. It isn't right that you do this. There are problems with Vigano, and we will keep pointing them out. 
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 14, 2023, 07:48:27 AM
It is only slander when a person knows that the person criticized is not guilty of any wrongdoing, but promotes the wrongdoing anyway. You know this.
In fact, you are the one slandering those of us who have serious concerns about Vigano, because you know that we mean what we say, and still you persist with the slander, detraction, and calumny accusation. It isn't right that you do this. There are problems with Vigano, and we will keep pointing them out.

I disagree with you that Strickland is a trad.
Title: Re: Vigano vs Strickland
Post by: Yeti on November 14, 2023, 10:13:26 AM
I disagree with you that Strickland is a trad.
.

I think Strickland's crime was more his support of the natural law and his opposition to the jab, not so much matters of supernatural revelation. It shows you what a state the Novus Ordo sect is in that that's all it takes to get a bishop removed.