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Author Topic: + Vigano online conference Dec 9  (Read 19179 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2023, 06:23:26 AM »
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  • This was posted about a month ago.  At the time, Vigano had not mentioned it in his tweets nor on his exsurgedomine website. He still hasn't, so I still wonder if he is really going to be part of this conference.


    Offline Ekim

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #2 on: November 25, 2023, 07:39:48 AM »
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  • This was posted about a month ago.  At the time, Vigano had not mentioned it in his tweets nor on his exsurgedomine website. He still hasn't, so I still wonder if he is really going to be part of this conference.
     I emailed Dr Mazza .  If I get a reply I will inquire.  I was surprised that I didn’t see this mentioned anywhere else….

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #3 on: November 25, 2023, 12:51:39 PM »
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  • The angle of the advertised conference is benevacantist. By December 9th, Vigano might prefer some other line of attack more effective to whatever he's thinking. Till then, here's the old general's latest.

    Quote
    A strategy that is disconcerting, to say the least, in its blatant maliciousness. 

    First Bergoglio foments the initiatives of the German Bishops' Conference on issues not subject to discussion because they are already defined by the Magisterium: divorce, polygamy, sodomy, female priesthood, celibacy. Next, he fuels with the Synod on Synodality the autonomist thrusts of the national churches in doctrinal and moral matters. And then, when the slow subversive gear begins to move, the Argentine Jesuit has his Secretary of State send a letter hypocritically reminding them that Catholic teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and priesthood is not up for discussion. And yet at the same time he is arranging a series of meetings of the German Episcopate with the main Roman Dicasteries at the Vatican, aimed at “verifying” what is immutable and what is not of that newly reaffirmed teaching. 

    This is the typical procedure of Luciferian Peronism: inducing the subordinates to take steps - apparently "spontaneous" and "coming from the grassroots” but in reality cleverly planned from above - to introduce doctrinal, moral and liturgical deviations contrary to the Catholic Faith. At the same time, he sends them a "green light," making it clear that their requests will be accepted. In this way, when the ultaprogressive bishops demand 100, Bergoglio has already decided to pretend to be a moderate and grant 50, which is what he wanted to get from the beginning. 

    Bergoglio is the fulcrum around which the entire attack on the Church of Christ revolves.

    https://riposte-catholique.fr/archives/184420

    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Emile

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #4 on: November 25, 2023, 02:11:14 PM »
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  • I emailed Dr Mazza .  If I get a reply I will inquire.  I was surprised that I didn’t see this mentioned anywhere else….
    It would be good to get verification from him.

    Here's the other thread, in case of interest:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/vigano-to-speak-at-bennyvacantist-conference/
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #5 on: November 25, 2023, 02:27:57 PM »
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  • By December 9th, Vigano might prefer some other line of attack more effective to whatever he's thinking.

    .

    :laugh1:

    I just got off the Vigano train, myself. When I saw his post on Twitter that his arguments should not be interpreted to mean he agrees with the arguments of sedevacantists.

    For nearly two years he's been talking incessantly about all kinds of things, mostly not related to the Faith, and people have been arguing that he is secretly sedevacantist because he always refers to Francis as "Bergoglio". We have had to try to read his mind to figure out if he is sedevacantist or not. Why couldn't he just tell us? Why all the mind games? But during all that time, it's true, he WAS giving all kinds of arguments that would support sedevacantism, without saying he believed the seat was empty.

    Then, finally, a week or two ago he comes out and says (FINALLY) that he doesn't think Francis is the pope. Finally.

    But wait! Days later, he responds to Schneider, who had responded to the previous statement, and tells Schneider on Twitter all kinds of reasons why Francis can't be the pope, but then .... concludes with the statement that his words should not be interpreted to mean he agrees with the opinions of sedevacantists.

    What??! :facepalm:

    I'm tired of him playing these sorts of mind games, and I don't know what he believes, and neither does anyone else, probably including him, so there's no point listening to him anymore. That's what I've concluded.

    Wake me up when he's trying to organize a council to have Francis excommunicated and deposed.

    Until then, I'm not going to have him messing with my head anymore. I've had enough of this nonsense.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #6 on: November 25, 2023, 02:53:10 PM »
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  • .

    Until then, I'm not going to have him messing with my head anymore. I've had enough of this nonsense.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #7 on: November 25, 2023, 03:05:49 PM »
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  • .

    :laugh1:

    I just got off the Vigano train, myself. When I saw his post on Twitter that his arguments should not be interpreted to mean he agrees with the arguments of sedevacantists.

    For nearly two years he's been talking incessantly about all kinds of things, mostly not related to the Faith, and people have been arguing that he is secretly sedevacantist because he always refers to Francis as "Bergoglio". We have had to try to read his mind to figure out if he is sedevacantist or not. Why couldn't he just tell us? Why all the mind games? But during all that time, it's true, he WAS giving all kinds of arguments that would support sedevacantism, without saying he believed the seat was empty.

    Then, finally, a week or two ago he comes out and says (FINALLY) that he doesn't think Francis is the pope. Finally.

    But wait! Days later, he responds to Schneider, who had responded to the previous statement, and tells Schneider on Twitter all kinds of reasons why Francis can't be the pope, but then .... concludes with the statement that his words should not be interpreted to mean he agrees with the opinions of sedevacantists.

    What??! :facepalm:

    I'm tired of him playing these sorts of mind games, and I don't know what he believes, and neither does anyone else, probably including him, so there's no point listening to him anymore. That's what I've concluded.

    Wake me up when he's trying to organize a council to have Francis excommunicated and deposed.

    Until then, I'm not going to have him messing with my head anymore. I've had enough of this nonsense.

    But Catholic Knight says there’s no pope, but that doesn’t mean he’s a sedevacantist either (lord knoweth how).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #8 on: November 25, 2023, 03:07:32 PM »
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  • I'm tired of him playing these sorts of mind games, and I don't know what he believes, and neither does anyone else, probably including him, so there's no point listening to him anymore. That's what I've concluded.


    This is actually a very important point.  Assuming he is still figuring things out (and that is definitely how he comes across), then it would be best if he did so privately.  Then when he's figured it out (as much as anyone can), go public. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #9 on: November 25, 2023, 04:42:08 PM »
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  • But Catholic Knight says there’s no pope, but that doesn’t mean he’s a sedevacantist either (lord knoweth how).

    We're dealing with a group of bad-willed and uncharitable individuals here.  By saying that he's not a "sedevacantist", he hasn't concluded ... YET ... that the pre-Bergoglian papal claimants are non-popes.  He hasn't reasoned that out.  Some time ago, he also explicitly kept away from holding that Jorge was a non-pope, simply saying that questions about his legitimacy need to be investigated.  He's taking his time and praying about each conclusion he arrives at.  You don't get the same kind of rancor against Archbishop Lefebvre as what we've seen against +Vigano.  These senitments against +Vigano are coming from a "bad place," various resentments over the fact that he's only recently become a Traditional Catholic and has nevertheless had the "spotlight" put on him.  Strangely, you do find this same attitude from the sedevacantist clergy, who truly have been laboring for decades in relative obscurity.  There's nothing of substance here, and nothing but bad will and lack of charity.  It's the same motivation we find in the Sacred Scriptures from the guys who toiled all day and then got the same pay as the guy who showed up later in the day.  Our Lord's answer is that the Master freely gives.  We ourselves became Traditional Catholics, as did the Trad clergy, by the same free and unmerited grace of God that He now has bestowed upon +Vigano.  But it's this same pathetic resentment that's at work among some of these bad-willed individuals.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #10 on: November 25, 2023, 05:49:47 PM »
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  • These senitments against +Vigano are coming from a "bad place," various resentments over the fact that he's only recently become a Traditional Catholic and has nevertheless had the "spotlight" put on him.  

    Not sure what you mean by "spotlight put on him." After all, Vigano has for the most part put the spotlight on himself. Over the last few years (five years or so?) he has published his communications through quite a few different news sources and journalists, some of whom are affiliated with Opus Dei. Since he has put himself out there as an authority on all church matters having to do with the Crisis, then he's gonna get some scrutiny. That's just how it is. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Ekim

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #11 on: November 25, 2023, 09:24:20 PM »
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  • Dr Mazza did reply to the email.  The conference is still on.  I believe you need to register via email.  Perhaps this is his way of screening attendees and avoiding +Vigano contractors?  He also said he will try to make it available on video for those who miss it but did not mention by which platform.

    Offline Emile

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #12 on: November 25, 2023, 09:45:46 PM »
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  • Dr Mazza did reply to the email.  The conference is still on.  I believe you need to register via email.  Perhaps this is his way of screening attendees and avoiding +Vigano contractors?  He also said he will try to make it available on video for those who miss it but did not mention by which platform.
    Thank you, Ekim
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #13 on: November 26, 2023, 03:07:43 AM »
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  • Dr Mazza did reply to the email.  The conference is still on.  I believe you need to register via email.  Perhaps this is his way of screening attendees and avoiding +Vigano contractors?  He also said he will try to make it available on video for those who miss it but did not mention by which platform.
    So he is still asserting that Vigano will be taking part?  Seems odd that Vigano has made no mention of it.  

    Offline Ekim

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    Re: + Vigano online conference Dec 9
    « Reply #14 on: November 26, 2023, 03:31:55 AM »
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  • So he is still asserting that Vigano will be taking part?  Seems odd that Vigano has made no mention of it. 
    I didn’t say that.  I said the conference is still a go.  +Vigano has not been removed from the promotion page.  I’m sure you can email Dr Mazza if you feel the need to confirm.