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Author Topic: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes  (Read 7257 times)

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Offline Marion

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2022, 04:16:41 PM »
"We aren't the Church, but we truely represent the Church" sounds odd. 
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Offline s2srea

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2022, 09:23:47 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 04, 2022, 01:30:00 PM
This, the "pope is human" answer is one of the least Catholic things I've seen here in a while ... in how you're applying it.  We're not talking about pope as human being but the pope as the Rock of the Church, in his Magisterium, which has always been taught to be protected by the Holy Spirit.  Obviously the pope is human, but he's also the Vicar of Christ, and with that come certain promises of Our Lord regarding the indefectibility of the Magisterium.

These stupid "pop" armchair theological maxims do a lot of damage and they're applied in a decidedly un-Catholic manner.  Your "EASY" ends up being heretical in its implications.

Do you even believe in the indefectibility of the Church and the protection of the Holy Spirit over the Church, or do you believe it to be a PURELY human institution that can fail and falter as any human being might.

If Bergoglio and his predecessors were going around worshipping in pachamama temples on their own and Vatican II and the NOM had not happened, most of us would hardly care less; it's not our problem and let the Cardinals and bishops deal with him.  Where it becomes our problem is when they're trying to impose a false Magisterium and blasphemous Rite of Worship on the entire Body of the Church, and we're left in the position of determining whether we can stay subject to them, as there's no salvation without subjection to the Holy Father.
If my "pop" answer seemed gratuitous , maybe you should circle back to the question. "A gratuitous question deserves...". Something like that. You know the rest.

As far as the idea of "armchair theological maxims", I've noticed sedevecantists on this forum seem to engage in them rabbidly(again see the question in question, please). In the past few days of browsing through here again I've found plenty of examples of this. I imagine no one normally responds in kind so they don't have to engage in the endless polemics sv'ers are so often known for (I.e. Your reply). 

I didn't come here for a full blown debate. I responded to a one liner with a one liner.  And that's okay. Sometimes you have a friend with an especially annoying habit. You normally overlook it because, well, you're friends. It's always good to ask yourself if you're that annoying friend. I find I often am.
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Offline Meg

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2022, 10:28:41 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 04, 2022, 01:38:14 PM
No, Traditional Catholics agree with where the Church is.  That's nonsense.  We disagree on various legal matters, but Archbishop Lefebvre clears it up.


Archbishop Lefebvre repeatedly stated that the Conciliar Church lacks the marks of the Catholic Church, and that Traditional Catholics are the ones who have them.

Not to mince words, but more often than not, sedes don't care what +ABL said. Though some do. When asked where the Church is, some of the sedes don't have an answer. How do you account for that? And some sedes (certainly not all) believe that there are no Catholics left in the conciliar church. +ABL did not take that stance. He believed that Rome is in apostasy, but he did not mean that the whole Church had apostasized (sp?). He didn't think about the situation like an American would. Americans sometimes have trouble relating to what +ABL believed, since he didn't have the anti-authoritarian mindset that Americans sometimes do. Sedevacantism is mainly an American phenomena. Not that I blame Sedes for believing that Francis isn't a pope. Francis is of course a horrible heretic. But he's also a modernist, and +ABL knew quite a lot about Modernism. 

Even though +ABL believed that the conciliar church lacks the four marks, he did not believe that Rome is not where the Church is. Which may seem odd, but there it is. +ABL admitted that he didn't have all of the answers for the situation of the Crisis in the Church, and in fact he said so, many times. He was humble enough to know that. That's one of the reasons why I adhere to his view of the situation.

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