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Author Topic: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes  (Read 7280 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2022, 03:07:23 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 03, 2022, 06:09:00 AM
+Vigano needs to come out and declare the See vacant.  He's flirting with it by citing Bishop Lenga, who has done precisely that ... albeit from the SedepleneBennyBergogliovacantist angle.  If you denounce Bergoglio for all the evils of V2, how do you absolve his Conciliar predecessors?
He will do that when Ratzinger and Bergoglio die....if he outlives them.  
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2022, 03:11:00 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 03, 2022, 11:04:42 AM
No one has the authority of course to bind consciences with such a declaration, but I am a firm believer that if someone of +Vigano's stature started the ball rolling, any Catholic who still has faith left will come to agree after some time has passed.  Then if there's a Universal Consensus that the See is vacant, there could then be an election.  Problem with the Conclavism of the past that brought us the likes of Pope Michael and Pius XIII and Linus II is that such a thing requires a near-universal consensus.  It has to be an act of the entire Church, not David Bawden's mom and ex-girlfriend.  As it is, most Catholics recognize that Bergoglio is not a Catholic pope and not their rule of faith ... but just differ regarding the legalities.  Heck, many of the Modernists who were excommunicated by St. Pius X would themselves excommunicate Bergoglio for heresy.
I think most people who currently hold him in high regard would drop him like a hot potato if he went sede.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2022, 03:22:57 PM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on January 03, 2022, 03:11:00 PM
I think most people who currently hold him in high regard would drop him like a hot potato if he went sede.

Initially, but it would build momentum over time.  You'd have the sedevacantists of course joining him, and the possibly bringing in the Resistance, and perhaps large portions of those who currently got to SSPX Masses but are really sedevacantists at heart.  Then, as their numbers grew, more would eventually join the movement.  Bergoglio is so bad that it would just take one person to point out that the emperor has no clothes.
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Offline Tradman

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Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2022, 03:45:17 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 03, 2022, 06:13:52 AM
No, he needs to say that the Church needs to elect a Pope NOW.  Anyone who has the faith left repudiates Jorge Bergoglio and does not recognize him as a Catholic.  There's clearly a de facto Universal Rejection of Bergoglio as a rule of faith, despite the fact that there are some who give too much weight to the material occupation of the Holy See.
Unless he's called by God, Vigano cannot attempt to do more to oust Bergog. It remains unproven that one man can call a council to depose a pope because he's a heretic.  Unless God calls for it specifically.  It's one thing to see Bergog is spouting heresy, it's another for a person or persons to do something about it.  Who's going to listen to him/them?  A few hundred or thousand trads?  Another problem is the cardinals will elect the same or worse.  What is Vigano going to do? Force good cardinals to vote, and forbid bad cardinals from voting?  Vigano is not in a position to manipulate that many circuмstances in the Church with his level of authority, even for Her betterment. He's humbly calling Catholics to prayer and penance for the remaining chastisement still to come.  Because God allows such things to His greater glory, it won't be just a man or men who fixes this.   
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Offline Meg

Re: +Vigano on the Responsa to Traditionis Custodes
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2022, 03:49:24 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 03, 2022, 03:22:57 PM
Initially, but it would build momentum over time.  You'd have the sedevacantists of course joining him, and the possibly bringing in the Resistance, and perhaps large portions of those who currently got to SSPX Masses but are really sedevacantists at heart.  Then, as their numbers grew, more would eventually join the movement.  Bergoglio is so bad that it would just take one person to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

Yes, but for the Resistance to go sede, Bp. Williamson would have to go sede, and the problem with that is that the SAJM would not likely go along with it. There would be a serious division.

There's always a small possibility the +W will go sede, but he never has in the 30+ years he's been a bishop. He also wrote two articles on sedevacantism five+ years ago. It's possible he's softened his position since then, but I haven't seen evidence of it.

Article 1:
Again, Sedevacantism – I | St. Marcel Initiative (stmarcelinitiative.com)

Article 2:
Sedevacantism Again – II | St. Marcel Initiative (stmarcelinitiative.com)
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