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Author Topic: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis  (Read 7479 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #75 on: April 08, 2021, 09:36:51 PM »
PS: As an aside, after BXVI was elected (ie., the first pope to be elected who was consecrated according to the new rite), a firestorm of debate regarding the validity of the new rite ensued.  

I would have to go back and refresh my memory regarding all the arguments coming from the SSPX and Avrille in defense of validity, and Fr. Cekada and Rore Sanctifica against validity, but I do not recall either side  alleging that the new rite of episcopal consecration was covered by infallibility, indefectibility, or as a secondary object of infallibility.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seemed most of the debate centered around whether or not the essential form was sufficiently univocal or invalidly ambiguous.

If my memory is correct in this regard, it is an interesting concession by both sides.
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Offline Nadir

Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #76 on: April 08, 2021, 10:14:52 PM »
Quote from: songbird on April 08, 2021, 08:54:02 PM
Mysterium Fidei:  Vigano appears to be invalidly ordained.  I believe it is from 1967? when the rites were changed of the New Order.  If so, the pope is also invalidly ordained.
I believe that rite was changed in 1968. Arch+ Vigano's  ordination was 24th March 1968.

Bergoglio was ordained 13 December 1969

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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2021, 04:52:09 AM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 08, 2021, 07:25:38 AM
Totally Vatican II, sickening, a religion that is like a bottle of strawberry jam on a crumb of bread. Totally effeminate, devoid of all Catholic militancy.   It is the mindset that got us to the ʀɛʋօʟutιօn of the 1960's.

To bring Catholicism back in order, one needs to get away from 20th century teachings. Feelings oriented people like the writer above should be avoided like the plague.
Very well said!
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2021, 07:49:33 AM »
Quote from: Nadir on April 08, 2021, 10:14:52 PM
I believe that rite was changed in 1968. Arch+ Vigano's  ordination was 24th March 1968.

Bergoglio was ordained 13 December 1969

Vigano was ordained on March 24, 1968.

The new rite of priestly ordination was not imposed until June 18, 1968.

http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2021, 08:13:34 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 09, 2021, 07:49:33 AM
Vigano was ordained on March 24, 1968.

The new rite of priestly ordination was not imposed until June 18, 1968.

http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html

And then I'm sure it took a while before copies of the New Rite were printed and distributed, and even then some bishops probably lagged behind in implementing it, sticking with the old familiar rite for a while longer.  But anyone ordained before June 18, 1968 would certainly be valid.
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