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Author Topic: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis  (Read 7586 times)

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Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2021, 08:20:25 AM »
It’s almost miraculous how a thread on Vigano can somehow be converted into a BOD thread.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2021, 08:21:13 AM »
Here's my take on +Vigano.  I don't understanding this thing about not "trusting" him.  I think it's code for not liking him.  What's there to trust or not trust?  He's not actually DOing anything.  It's not like he's starting up a separate Traditional movement that would be drawing people away from the existing Traditional groups.  In his current position, he's actually opening up a lot of eyes regarding the issues with Vatican II among the conservative NO types like Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin.  I don't see him drawing any Traditional Catholics closer to the Novus Ordo; rather, I see him drawing some conservative NO Catholics closer to Tradition.  I have not known one Traditional Catholic to express the sentiment that, "ah, because of +Vigano, I should go rejoin the Novus Ordo."

He's actually gone to the RIGHT of the neo-SSPX now.  Unlike +Fellay, who claims that 95% of Vatican II is fine and that it just needs some corrections, +Vigano asserts that the entire thing is radically defective and needs to be pitched.  While +Fellay has basically agreed to applying a hermeneutic of continuity to Vatican II, +Vigano categorically rejects that and claims this is not possible.  Unlike the neo-SSPX, he has stood up against the morality of the ναccιnєs ... and even the entire scamdemic and the ɛƖɛctıon fraud, which the +Fellay-ite SSPX has refused to touch even though it desperately needs to be addressed.  He's even publicly floated the idea that Bergoglio may not be a legitimate pope (deferring in this speculation, however, to the Church's judgment -- not unlike EXACTLY what Archbishop Lefebvre did).  I have not once seen +Vigano refer to Bergoglio as Francis or Pope or Holy Father ... he constantly just calls him Bergoglio, like the most dogmatic sedevacantists do.

So I feel that +Vigano needs to be supported rather than constantly attacked.  It's fine, of course, to disagree with him one one or another of his positions, but this total rejection of +Vigano I find absurd and childish.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2021, 08:34:51 AM »
It’s almost miraculous how a thread on Vigano can somehow be converted into a BOD thread.

Please show me where the term "Baptism of Desire" is mentioned anywhere on this thread, Sean.  No, what's being discussed is whether Prots are actually real Christians ... which is actually one of the CHIEF errors of Vatican II, claiming that heretics are in fact Christians and our separated brethren.  This has precious to do with BOD except in your own mind, and this demonstrates that you have zero clue about the importance of the theological issues being debated here.

Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2021, 08:57:11 AM »
Please show me where the term "Baptism of Desire" is mentioned anywhere on this thread, Sean.
Concedo.

I got my Xavier posts/threads mixed up.

I should say:

“It’s almost miraculous how a thread on the ‘apostolic mission’ of Bishop Zendejas can end up a thread on BOD.”

Ps: Only Catholics are Christians.

Re: +Vigano on New Mass and Francis
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2021, 09:07:13 AM »
Here's my take on +Vigano.  I don't understanding this thing about not "trusting" him.  I think it's code for not liking him.  What's there to trust or not trust?  He's not actually DOing anything.  It's not like he's starting up a separate Traditional movement that would be drawing people away from the existing Traditional groups.  In his current position, he's actually opening up a lot of eyes regarding the issues with Vatican II among the conservative NO types like Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin.  I don't see him drawing any Traditional Catholics closer to the Novus Ordo; rather, I see him drawing some conservative NO Catholics closer to Tradition.  I have not known one Traditional Catholic to express the sentiment that, "ah, because of +Vigano, I should go rejoin the Novus Ordo."

He's actually gone to the RIGHT of the neo-SSPX now.  Unlike +Fellay, who claims that 95% of Vatican II is fine and that it just needs some corrections, +Vigano asserts that the entire thing is radically defective and needs to be pitched.  While +Fellay has basically agreed to applying a hermeneutic of continuity to Vatican II, +Vigano categorically rejects that and claims this is not possible.  Unlike the neo-SSPX, he has stood up against the morality of the ναccιnєs ... and even the entire scamdemic and the ɛƖɛctıon fraud, which the +Fellay-ite SSPX has refused to touch even though it desperately needs to be addressed.  He's even publicly floated the idea that Bergoglio may not be a legitimate pope (deferring in this speculation, however, to the Church's judgment -- not unlike EXACTLY what Archbishop Lefebvre did).  I have not once seen +Vigano refer to Bergoglio as Francis or Pope or Holy Father ... he constantly just calls him Bergoglio, like the most dogmatic sedevacantists do.

So I feel that +Vigano needs to be supported rather than constantly attacked.  It's fine, of course, to disagree with him one one or another of his positions, but this total rejection of +Vigano I find absurd and childish.
Perfectly stated.
👏👏👏