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Interview with Aldo Maria Valli
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/5342-interview-of-aldo-maria-valli-with-mons-carlo-maria-vigano
Your Excellency, through your repeated interventions and the activity of various blogs we are denouncing in every way the apostasy that is spreading in the Church just like the tyranny imposed by the ideology of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, to which the Hierarchy of the Church seems to be in total submission.
With respect to these themes, a division is noted, that is ever more accentuated, within families and also between friends. With respect to the affairs of the world and the Church there is a radically divided judgment, with a polarization that seems to admit no mutual understanding. It is as if two different cultures have emerged, two different anthropologies, and even two different faiths. Thus, how should we behave in this situation if we wish to safeguard love for the truth?
You are right: the establishment of the New Order, begun under the pretext of the so-called pandemic, makes the loss of inner peace and serenity perceptible to many; it makes us perceive an evil that overwhelms us and before which we feel powerless; it sharpens divisions and disputes between family members, relatives, and friends. Very often we are saddened to see how the lie succeeds in convincing people close to us whom we had believed to be mature and capable of discerning good from evil. It seems incredible to us that our friends have allowed themselves to be deceived, indeed I would almost say to be hypnotized, by the drumbeat of the mainstream mєdια: doctors whom we considered conscientious seem to have cancelled their own scientific knowledge by abdicating rationality in the name of a sort of crazy superstition; acquaintances who up until yesterday condemned the horrors of nαzιsm and ƈσmmυɳιsm do not realize how much the horrors of those dictatorships are being re-proposed in an even more inhuman and ruthless form, replicating on a wider scale the experimentation of the cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρs and the violation of the natural rights of the world population. We cannot understand how it can be that our parish priest speaks to us about CÖVÌD as if it were a plague, that the mayor behaves like a hierarch, that a neighbor calls the police because a family organizes a barbecue on the terrace. Elderly people who once fought valiantly and risked their lives are now literally terrorized by a treatable flu. Fathers of families with solid moral principles tolerate their children being indoctrinated into vice and perversion, as if what has been passed on to them and what they believe in no longer has any value. Speaking about love of one’s country, the defense of national borders, and national sovereignty is now considered fascist. And we ask ourselves: where is the Italy that we have loved? Where is the Church that instructed us in the Faith and made us grow in the Grace of God? Is it possible that all of this has been cancelled in just a few years?
It is obvious that what is now happening has been planned for decades, both in the civil sphere as well as the religious. And many people, very many, have been deceived: first by convincing them to grant rights to those who share neither our Faith nor our values, then by making them feel almost guilty for the fact of being Catholic, for their ideas, for their past. Today we have reached the point of being barely tolerated as retrogrades and fanatics, while there are those would like to make it a crime to do what has constituted the basis of civilized life for millennia and declare every behavior against God, against nature, and against our identity not only licit but obligatory.
In the face of this upheaval that involves our entire society, the division that emerges between the children of light and children of darkness appears increasingly clear: this is a grace that is granted to us by God in order to make a courageous and decisive choice. Let us recall the words of Our Lord: “Do not believe that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace but a sword” (Mt 10:34). The pacifism we have been hearing about for decades only serves to disarm the good and set the wicked free to do their iniquitous works. Therefore even the division and polarization between those who belong to the City of God and those who serve the prince of this world is welcome, if it serves to open our eyes. Love for the truth necessarily implies hatred of lies, and it would be ill-considered and illusory to believe that two masters can be served. If today we are asked to choose between the Kingdom of Christ and the tyranny of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, we cannot avoid this choice and must carry it out consistently, asking the Lord for the strength to bear witness to Him even to the point of martyrdom. Whoever tells us that the Gospel can be reconciled with the anti-Gospel of globalism is lying, just as those who offer us a world without wars in which all religions can live together in peace also lie. There is no peace except in the Kingdom of Christ: pax Christi in regno Christi. Of course, in order to conduct our combat successfully we should be able to count on generals and commanders who guide us: if almost all of them have preferred desertion and betrayal, we can however count on an invincible Leader, the Most Holy Virgin, invoking Her protection over Her children and the entire Church. Under Her powerful guidance we should not fear anything, because it is She who will strike the head of the ancient serpent, restoring the order that the pride of Satan has broken.
Let us speak of the liturgy and the Holy Mass. Not all faithful Catholics, however well-intentioned, have the possibility of participating at Vetus Ordo Masses and must “content themselves” with the Masses that are celebrated in their parishes, often marked by liturgical rudeness if not true and proper abuses. In these Masses Communion is received on the hand, standing, the Our Father is recited according to the new formula [at Masses celebrated in Italian], those present are invited to exchange the “glance of peace,” [instead of the sign of peace], preaching is heard that is in line with Bergoglianism (to touch on only a few aspects). In the end, they leave Mass feeling sad, to put it mildly, rather than peaceful and reconciled with God and their brothers. So what should they do?
We should first ask ourselves how it can be possible that the supreme act of worship, instituted by Our Lord to perpetuate in an unbloody manner on our altars the infinite graces of the Sacrifice of Calvary, has become an obstacle to the sanctification of the faithful rather than an occasion of spiritual progress and interior peace. In other times, the Mass offered a glimpse of Heaven amidst the trials and chaos of the world; today it seems that the clamor of the world is an indispensable element to banish silence, prayerful adoration, and the sense of the sacred and the presence of God. But if in the natural order it is our duty to nourish the body with healthy food and avoid those that are poisoned or adulterated, all the more so is it our duty in the supernatural order to feed our souls with healthy nourishment, keeping ourselves away from what can spiritually poison us.
Obviously I understand the difficulty of the faithful in finding churches in which the traditional Holy Mass is celebrated, but I think that the Lord also knows how to appreciate the good will of those who are aware of the importance that the Holy Sacrifice has for our soul, especially in moments of great crisis like the ones we are going through, and for this reason they know how to make a small effort, at least on Sundays, to sanctify the Lord’s Day worthily. There have been times and places in which Catholics were persecuted and assisting at the Mass was difficult and dangerous, and yet the faithful succeeded in gathering clandestinely in the woods, in cellars, or in attics in order to honor God and nourish themselves with the Bread of Angels: we have the duty to be worthy of these our brothers in the Faith, without making excuses or pretexts. On the other hand, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм recognizes the right of the faithful – a right, not a privilege – to have the traditional Mass, and if this does not happen everywhere it is in large part because the faithful do not know how to impose themselves. It is not a question of concern for aesthetics, of love for Latin or Gregorian chant, or a form of nostalgia for one’s own past; here what is in question is the heart of the life of the Church, the soul of the supernatural life of Catholics, the very good of the world.
(https://remnant-tv.com/)
I understand that many of the faithful find themselves in a situation of difficulty, at least from the human point of view, at the moment when they must decide whether to abandon the life of their parish in order to seek out a traditional Mass which is sometimes miles away. The faithful have a grave moral duty at least to seek out a Mass celebrated with decorum and respect by a pious priest who administers Holy Communion on the tongue.
The pandemic has given the pretext for abusively imposing restrictions on liturgical functions: let us not make ourselves sharers in responsibility for these abuses by our silence and our resignation in allowing indecorous or sacrilegious Masses to be imposed on us. God is also offended by the indolence and indifference with which we repay His love for us: an indolence that is increasingly perceptible in the faithful who even allow themselves to be ναccιnαted in church on Holy Saturday, replacing meditation on the Last Things with the groundless fear of physical death. In the face of these manifestations of the enslavement of the Clergy and the Hierarchy to the diktats of a corrupt and corrupting authority, raising one’s voice aloud is not only a moral duty but also a brake on the excesses of so many ecclesiastics who have forgotten the sense of their Priesthood and the soul of their vocation. They should seriously consider how grave their cooperation with the CÖVÌD narrative is, above all when pseudo-scientific superstition becomes the only possible form of faith, appropriating the symbology, lexicon, and rituality of a religion. Let whoever has ears to hear, understand.
Let us therefore ask our priests to celebrate the Holy Mass as if it was the first and last Mass of their lives, to do away with these worldly rites, and to give back to us the treasure that they stubbornly keep hidden. Let us not forget to give material and spiritual help to priests who courageously and consistently celebrate the traditional liturgy, remembering that one day soon they will be the ones to rebuild the fabric that will restore Christian society. And if we ourselves cannot assist with regularity at the Holy Sacrifice in the rite handed down to us by the Apostles, let us keep our distance from those who profane the Blessed Sacrament and use the pulpit to corrupt Faith and Morals. I would like to reiterate, however, out of a duty of conscience, that wherever it is possible to assist at the Tridentine Mass without serious inconvenience, this must certainly be preferred to the reformed Mass.
Undoubtedly you have seen, Your Excellency, that once again the question of “who is pope and who is not pope” has been raised. There are those who say: given that Bergoglio was elected on the basis of manipulations of the Saint Gallen Mafia and perhaps with irregularities during the Conclave, he is not pope. Instead, Ratzinger is said to be pope, because it is said that he did not renounce the throne freely, but rather because he was forced by strong pressures, and because he supposedly deliberately wrote the Latin text of the resignation incorrectly in order to render it invalid. Is this “fantasy church”? Or is there any element to take into serious consideration?
Multiple causes – strong and undue pressures both external to the Church as well as by eminent members of the Hierarchy, as well as the personal character of Joseph Ratzinger – are said to have induced Benedict XVI to formulate a declaration of resignation in a completely irregular way, leaving the Church in a state of grave uncertainty and confusion; maƈhınątions of a group of progressive conspirators are said to have indicated Bergoglio as the candidate then elected in the course of a conclave marked by infringements of the Apostolic Constitution Universi Dominici Gregis which regulates the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman Pontiff: these elements are said to be such as to make the abdication of Ratzinger null and void, the Conclave of 2013 null and void, and the ɛƖɛctıon of the successor also null and void. However, although there is widespread and undeniable talk about them, these elements need confirmation and above all a declaration by the supreme authority of the Church. Any pronunciation made by those who do not have the authority to do so would be rash. I also believe that, in the present situation, the dispute over who is the reigning Pope serves only to weaken the already fragmented healthy part of the ecclesial body, sowing division among the good.
Let us confidently pray to the Lord to bring the truth to light and show us the path to follow. For now, strong in the virtue of Prudence, which orders means towards the ultimate end, let us remain faithful and jealously guard that which the Church has always believed: quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus creditum est.
During this time that is, in many respects, so complicated and confused, what is your prayer? Would you like to suggest to us how to turn to Our Lord?
What is happening today is because of the public sins of nations, the sins of individuals, and – terrible as it may sound – the sins of the men of the Church. We cannot intervene for the sins of nations nor for those of the Hierarchy, but we can begin with humility and with the spirit of true conversion to amend our sins, our infidelities, and our lukewarmness. Thus, while the new Pharisees delight in the world’s appreciation, in addition to praying for their conversion, we must implore the Lord’s mercy for ourselves with the words of the Gospel: “O God, have mercy on me, a sinner” (Lk 18:13). Society, and even more so the Church, will benefit greatly from our fidelity and our walking along the path of holiness that has been prepared for us, with the Grace of God and under the protection of the Most Holy Virgin. Let us not deprive ourselves of trusting recourse to Her whom Our Lord gave to us on the Cross as our Mother, and who as such will not deny us Her help in our trials.
We are approaching Easter: despite everything, the Lord rises. We want to find reasons for hope. This is a difficult undertaking, but can we try?
Not only can we try: we must have Faith and also exercise the virtue of Hope, according to which we know that the Lord grants us the Graces necessary to avoid sin, carry out the good, and merit the eternal beatitude of Heaven. Let’s not forget that we are pilgrims in hac lacrimarum valle, and that our homeland is the heavenly Jerusalem, along with the Angels and Saints, in the glory of the Most Holy Trinity. Surrexit Dominus vere, the Easter liturgy proclaims: He has Risen once and for all, conquering Satan and snatching from him the chirograph that Adam signed with original sin. The present trials, the fear of being abandoned and alone against a powerful alignment that seems to crush us and overcome us, should not frighten us but spur us on to renew our trust in Him who said of Himself: “I have told you these things, so that you may have peace in Me. In the world you will have tribulation; but take courage, I have conquered the world” (Jn 16:33).
May this Holy Easter spur us on to a return to God, offering our trials and tribulations with a spirit of expiation and reparation for the conversion of sinners, so that after we too have shared the chalice of Gethsemane we may make ourselves worthy of the glory of the Resurrection.
Holy Thursday 2021
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[THIS PART OF THE INTERVIEW INSPIRES A GREAT DEAL MORE FOR THOSE WHO MUST DISCERN IN ORDER TO SAVE HIS AND HER SOULS IN THIS EVIL AGE] -
''Let us recall the words of Our Lord: “Do not believe that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace but a sword” (Mt 10:34).
The pacifism we have been hearing about for decades only serves to disarm the good and set the wicked free to do their iniquitous works. Therefore even the division and polarization between those who belong to the City of God and those who serve the prince of this world is welcome, if it serves to open our eyes. Love for the truth necessarily implies hatred of lies, and it would be ill-considered and illusory to believe that two masters can be served.''
[SAY WHAT CONTRADICTORY WISE???]-
''However, although there is widespread and undeniable talk about them, these elements need confirmation and above all a declaration by the supreme authority of the Church. Any pronunciation made by those who do not have the authority to do so would be rash. I also believe that, in the present situation, the dispute over who is the reigning Pope serves only to weaken the already fragmented healthy part of the ecclesial body, sowing division among the good.''
[WHICH FIRST SPEAKS OF THIS TRUTH IN THE INTERVIEW]-
''Multiple causes – strong and undue pressures both external to the Church as well as by eminent members of the Hierarchy, as well as the personal character of Joseph Ratzinger – are said to have induced Benedict XVI to formulate a declaration of resignation in a completely irregular way, leaving the Church in a state of grave uncertainty and confusion; maƈhınątions of a group of progressive conspirators are said to have indicated Bergoglio as the candidate then elected in the course of a conclave marked by infringements of the Apostolic Constitution Universi Dominici Gregis which regulates the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman Pontiff: these elements are said to be such as to make the abdication of Ratzinger null and void, the Conclave of 2013 null and void, and the ɛƖɛctıon of the successor also null and void.''
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This is fine and dandy, pretty good I must say - a condemnation of the Conciliar Church and the New Mass and being in league with the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
But why does he leave the door open to attending the New Mass? The New Mass is the highest expression of this evil he is condemning and he doesn't seem to understand that you SHOULD NOT ASSIST AT ONE. He even discusses how to keep Sunday holy without Mass. This is something the SSPX et all have been teaching since the beginning, but a "Conservative" Novus Ordo is still permissible?
:confused: :confused: :confused:
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This is fine and dandy, pretty good I must say - a condemnation of the Conciliar Church and the New Mass and being in league with the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
But why does he leave the door open to attending the New Mass? The New Mass is the highest expression of this evil he is condemning and he doesn't seem to understand that you SHOULD NOT ASSIST AT ONE. He even discusses how to keep Sunday holy without Mass. This is something the SSPX et all have been teaching since the beginning, but a "Conservative" Novus Ordo is still permissible?
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Yeah, that part was disappointing, where he said people should go to the NOM that's properly offered.
He just hasn't come to full terms with the problem. He's still waiting for the Church's "highest authority" to address the issue, whereas that highest authority has been totally infiltrated and taken over. They are the ones promoting these evils.
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Yeah, that part was disappointing, where he said people should go to the NOM that's properly offered.
He just hasn't come to full terms with the problem. He's still waiting for the Church's "highest authority" to address the issue, whereas that highest authority has been totally infiltrated and taken over. They are the ones promoting these evils.
I’m not saying that I believe this, but it is possible that he’s controlled opposition. We all should remain vigilant and be hesitant to jump on board too readily. I hope he’s the real deal, but things like this make me question him.
I’m not ready to admit that Tɾυmρ was controlled opposition, but I do think that, if he wasn’t a useful idiot, he was, at the very least, a near total failure.
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https://akacatholic.com/opus-deis-role-in-the-vigano-affair/
Opus Dei’s Role in the Viganò Affair
By: Randy Engel December 11, 2018
The following is an EXCERPT FROM PART IV OF A FOUR PART SERIES which discusses Aldo Valli among other individuals and entities of interest:
''Rather, this article is an in-depth look at the hidden hand of Opus Dei in the Viganò affair and the role that the Prelature has played in bringing the affair to world-wide attention with such astonishingly speed and continuality. The Viganò affair is not a matter of the usual slow Vatican “leaks,” but a carefully orchestrated and coordinated “tsunami” of “The Work,” which acts in secret and hides behind its unidentified members and “apostolates.”
[FROM 54rosary- We are interested in the TRUTH. We were hoping that Archbishop Vigano is the real deal. The TRUTH matters especially today in a world of devastating soul-killing lies and deceptions.]
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The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable, but not disturbing to those like me who have tracked his trajectory into tradition since 2018.
Just in that span of three years, Vigano has:
1) Acknowledged and explained (and apologized for) his fault for not rejecting the conciliar revolution decades ago;
2) Laid the blame at the conciliar and post-conciliar docuмents themselves (which he says contain not mere ambiguities, but actual doctrinal errors);
3) Acknowledged the righteousness of Lefebvre and his apostolate;
4) Rejected the conciliar church (calling it a counterfeit church);
5) Questioned whether Vatican II is even a bona fide ecuмenical council;
6) Left the door open to the possibility that Francis is not a true pope;
7) Encouraged everyone to abandon the new Mass and new Mass clergy;
8) Made contact with Bishop Williamson and the Resistance;
9) Advised faithful to stay home on Sunday if the Mass they would attend does not sanctify Sunday.
His list of blunders pales in comparison:
1) An ill-advised telespeech at the Jehrico march.
As regards his leaving the door open a crack to attend a pius new Mass (if no traditional Mass is available), I will bet one year from now, that same crack will be half as wide, and will end up only remaining open for those in grave necessity (eg., Archbishop Lefebvre’s famous “cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ” exception).
To me, this man is a gift from God to strengthen wavering souls.
As for those who criticize him for “not doing anything,” you are blind. Teaching the faith is the most important and most needed thing right now, and I believe God has awoken him to fulfill that roll.
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We need to know if he is being handled by Opus Dei or not?
This last interview with Aldo Valli raises questions and concerns for sure.
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We need to know if he is being handled by Opus Dei or not?
This last interview with Aldo Valli raises questions and concerns for sure.
What?
Are you on drugs?
Maybe YOU are being handled by Opus Dei?!
I find your methods very similar to theirs.
I need immєdιαte proof that you are not an Opus Dei operative.
If you cannot provide it, then we have our answer.
See how easy it is to play your moderated?
The Aldo Valli interview raises serious questions about you!
What a moderated abbreviation.
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Yeah, that part was disappointing, where he said people should go to the NOM that's properly offered.
He just hasn't come to full terms with the problem. He's still waiting for the Church's "highest authority" to address the issue, whereas that highest authority has been totally infiltrated and taken over. They are the ones promoting these evils.
Isn't he part of the "hierarchy"? I keep hearing how the traditional bishops are not part of the hierarchy. Why can't he address the issue? Is it... he can't? Or is it.... he won't?
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Isn't he part of the "hierarchy"? I keep hearing how the traditional bishops are not part of the hierarchy. Why can't he address the issue? Is it... he can't? Or is it.... he won't?
Is he...retired?
Is he...in hiding?
Did he...already answer your question by explaining only a pope can resolve the question?
Are you...intentionally blind?
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The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable
15 minutes later:
What?
Are you on drugs?
I too have struggled with unreasonable and unregulated anger. Spending 20 minutes of meditation every day with our Lady has helped me tremendously. (and of course regular confession)
This conference I have also found helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdIRQ2sQjdQ
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What?
Are you on drugs?
...
You should be ashamed of your previous [now moderated] response, that has been moderated by my request.
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The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable, but not disturbing to those like me who have tracked his trajectory into tradition since 2018.
Just in that span of three years, Vigano has:
1) Acknowledged and explained (and apologized for) his fault for not rejecting the conciliar ʀɛʋօʟutιօn decades ago;
2) Laid the blame at the conciliar and post-conciliar docuмents themselves (which he says contain not mere ambiguities, but actual doctrinal errors);
3) Acknowledged the righteousness of Lefebvre and his apostolate;
4) Rejected the conciliar church (calling it a counterfeit church);
5) Questioned whether Vatican II is even a bona fide ecuмenical council;
6) Left the door open to the possibility that Francis is not a true pope;
7) Encouraged everyone to abandon the new Mass and new Mass clergy;
8) Made contact with Bishop Williamson and the Resistance;
9) Advised faithful to stay home on Sunday if the Mass they would attend does not sanctify Sunday.
His list of blunders pales in comparison:
1) An ill-advised telespeech at the Jehrico march.
Great summary, Sean.
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15 minutes later:
I too have struggled with unreasonable and unregulated anger. Spending 20 minutes of meditation every day with our Lady has helped me tremendously. (and of course regular confession)
This conference I have also found helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdIRQ2sQjdQ
Thank you for your virtue signaling :facepalm:
When I mentioned reasonable criticism, idiots declaring Vigano an Opus Dei puppet did not qualify.
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This 66 year old woman does not know what DB stands for.
You should be ashamed of your response.
A 66 year-old woman ought to know better than to cast such irresponsible aspersions!
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A 66 year-old woman ought to know better than to cast such irresponsible aspersions!
You are not by any means honestly responding by throwing further insults.
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Thank you for your virtue signaling :facepalm:
When I mentioned reasonable criticism, idiots declaring Vigano an Opus Dei puppet did not qualify.
Whether you believe it or not, my post was offered in Christian Charity. I too struggle with the vice of anger. It is very apparent that you do as well.
I sincerely wish you well regardless of what accusations you hurl or downthumbs you give.
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You are not by any means honestly responding by throwing further insults.
Your first 3 posts were irresponsible BS.
The rest of your posts are whining that you are offended.
None of them has any value.
Move along.
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Whether you believe it or not, my post was offered in Christian Charity. I too struggle with the vice of anger. It is very apparent that you do as well.
I sincerely wish you well regardless of what accusations you hurl or downthumbs you give.
More sede virtue signaling. :facepalm:
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More sede virtue signaling. :facepalm:
I'm a sede? I wasn't aware of that.
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The speech at the Jericho March where a Jєωιѕн Shofar was blown and where he ecuмenically prayed with all attendees as "brothers and sisters", "Children of Light", and "citizens of Heaven":
JERICHO MARCH
“LET THE CHURCH ROAR!”
December 12, 2020
Dear brothers and sisters,
I greet all of you on this day dedicated to prayer for our beloved Nation, the United States of America. Let’s ask God to make truth and justice triumph! Let’s ask Him to dispel the lies and deceptions of the children of darkness!
You have organized these marches in many cities in America, and named them after a Biblical event: the siege of Jericho. Jericho was the first city that the people of Israel came to after they crossed the Jordan River and entered the Promised Land. The way that God commanded the Hebrew people to conquer Jericho shows us the wonderful ways of the Lord, which are so different from our ways! The Book of Joshua tells us that Jericho was walled up and completely closed – it appeared to be an impregnable fortress! It appeared that a long siege would be necessary to conquer it by hunger, or else that huge weapons of war would be needed to break down its walls. And yet the only thing God commanded was that the people walk around the city with the Ark of the Covenant, blowing the Jubilee Trumpets, as the soldiers and people followed in perfect silence, for seven days.
God did not want to make the city of Jericho fall immediately, in order to show mercy to its inhabitants and invite them to do penance. As Saint John Chrysostom says, “The Lord, who took six days to create the heavens and the earth, took seven days to destroy a sinful city.” The Jubilee Trumpets that sounded around the city were used by the Jews to announce pardon and forgiveness. God would not have made them sound without an ending that was full of goodness. In the same way, an ending that is full of goodness inspires our prayer today, for our Country and for our President!
Even the little children walked with their mothers around the city: those little ones were the most chosen portion of all, because they embodied the innocence that overwhelmed wickedness. Thus, moral strength fought against brutal violence, faith fought against unbelief, obedience fought against arrogant rebellion, humility fought against pride, and faith in the Lord fought against the presumption of man. God revealed the superiority of the power of Good over the power of Evil through an astonishing intervention.
We too, in this hour of great tribulation for our Nation, are praying that truth will triumph over lies, justice over abuse and fraud, honesty over corruption, honor over infamy, faithfulness over betrayal, and that order will triumph over destruction.
We are the silent army of the children of Light, the humble ranks who overthrow evil by invoking God, the praying army that walks around the walls of lies and betrayal in order to bring them down.
We fight the battles of the Lord with faith and courage, carrying the Ark of the Covenant in our hearts, remaining faithful to the teachings of the Gospel of Our Lord! We do not need material strength to fight, because we have the Lord of Armies at our side! Nothing can resist the power of the prayer. The walls of the Deep State, behind which evil is barricaded, will come crashing down!
Jericho was also the place where Jesus Christ converted the tax collector Zaccheus (Luke 19: 1-10). We pray for the conversion of public officials who have become complicit in public fraud and have betrayed their oath to serve our Nation.
Along the road that led from Jerusalem to Jericho, the Good Samaritan stopped to help and care for the traveler who was attacked by robbers (Luke 10:25-37). May his fraternal charity be an example for Patriots who are called to serve our homeland that has been attacked and wounded by both internal and external enemies.
It was also in Jericho that the Lord healed Bartimaeus of his blindness (Mark 10:46-53). May the blind man’s faith spur us on to conversion, so that we place our trust once again in God and that He may hear the cry of our prayer for our beloved Nation.
We are citizens of Heaven: this is the homeland that awaits us for eternity. On this earth we are also children of a homeland that gave us birth and in which we were raised and educated, a homeland we have served with dedication and courage. Be proud, as Christians and as Patriots, to be able to give witness today to your faith in God and your love for the United States of America, for its Constitution, and for its President Donald J. Trump.
Let us pray…
O Lord, Almighty God, prostrate before Thee we invoke Thy powerful protection in this hour of great turmoil, when darkness seems to be spreading over our beloved Nation.
Make vain the assaults of those who, blinded by vice and hatred of Thee, wish to subject our Nation and the whole world to the tyranny of sin and rebellion. Grant wisdom and courage to those who are called to decide the fortunes of the United States of America, and to those who serve their country with fidelity and honor.
Lord, bless our President and our public officials. For those who exercise the power entrusted to them from above, obtain the graces necessary to carry out their duties with integrity and justice.
O Almighty God, who many times hast manifested the power of Thy right hand at the side of Christian armies, place Thyself at the head of this army of Thy children. Let the prayer we address to Thee through the intercession of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Patroness of the Americas, rise up to Thee, so that we may attain the freedom and peace that Thou hast promised us.
And just as in the time of Joshua, raise up holy heroes and courageous witnesses of the Faith, so also today hear the prayer we raise to Thee, and break down the walls of the City of darkness, granting victory to those who serve under Thy holy banner. Amen.
GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
ONE NATION UNDER GOD
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop
Former Apostolic Nuncio in the United States of America
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I'm a sede? I wasn't aware of that.
Thank you for not denying the virtue signaling! :laugh2: :laugh1:
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Your first 3 posts were irresponsible BS.
The rest of your posts are whining that you are offended.
None of them has any value.
Move along.
SHAMEFUL.
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The speech at the Jericho March where a Jєωιѕн Shofar was blown and where he ecuмenically prayed with all attendees as "brothers and sisters", "Children of Light", and "citizens of Heaven":
JERICHO MARCH
“LET THE CHURCH ROAR!”
December 12, 2020
Dear brothers and sisters,
I greet all of you on this day dedicated to prayer for our beloved Nation, the United States of America. Let’s ask God to make truth and justice triumph! Let’s ask Him to dispel the lies and deceptions of the children of darkness!
You have organized these marches in many cities in America, and named them after a Biblical event: the siege of Jericho. Jericho was the first city that the people of Israel came to after they crossed the Jordan River and entered the Promised Land. The way that God commanded the Hebrew people to conquer Jericho shows us the wonderful ways of the Lord, which are so different from our ways! The Book of Joshua tells us that Jericho was walled up and completely closed – it appeared to be an impregnable fortress! It appeared that a long siege would be necessary to conquer it by hunger, or else that huge weapons of war would be needed to break down its walls. And yet the only thing God commanded was that the people walk around the city with the Ark of the Covenant, blowing the Jubilee Tɾυmρets, as the soldiers and people followed in perfect silence, for seven days.
God did not want to make the city of Jericho fall immєdιαtely, in order to show mercy to its inhabitants and invite them to do penance. As Saint John Chrysostom says, “The Lord, who took six days to create the heavens and the earth, took seven days to destroy a sinful city.” The Jubilee Tɾυmρets that sounded around the city were used by the Jews to announce pardon and forgiveness. God would not have made them sound without an ending that was full of goodness. In the same way, an ending that is full of goodness inspires our prayer today, for our Country and for our President!
Even the little children walked with their mothers around the city: those little ones were the most chosen portion of all, because they embodied the innocence that overwhelmed wickedness. Thus, moral strength fought against brutal violence, faith fought against unbelief, obedience fought against arrogant rêbêllïon, humility fought against pride, and faith in the Lord fought against the presumption of man. God revealed the superiority of the power of Good over the power of Evil through an astonishing intervention.
We too, in this hour of great tribulation for our Nation, are praying that truth will triumph over lies, justice over abuse and fraud, honesty over corruption, honor over infamy, faithfulness over betrayal, and that order will triumph over destruction.
We are the silent army of the children of Light, the humble ranks who overthrow evil by invoking God, the praying army that walks around the walls of lies and betrayal in order to bring them down.
We fight the battles of the Lord with faith and courage, carrying the Ark of the Covenant in our hearts, remaining faithful to the teachings of the Gospel of Our Lord! We do not need material strength to fight, because we have the Lord of Armies at our side! Nothing can resist the power of the prayer. The walls of the Deep State, behind which evil is barricaded, will come crashing down!
Jericho was also the place where Jesus Christ converted the tax collector Zaccheus (Luke 19: 1-10). We pray for the conversion of public officials who have become complicit in public fraud and have betrayed their oath to serve our Nation.
Along the road that led from Jerusalem to Jericho, the Good Samaritan stopped to help and care for the traveler who was attacked by robbers (Luke 10:25-37). May his fraternal charity be an example for ραƚɾισts who are called to serve our homeland that has been attacked and wounded by both internal and external enemies.
It was also in Jericho that the Lord healed Bartimaeus of his blindness (Mark 10:46-53). May the blind man’s faith spur us on to conversion, so that we place our trust once again in God and that He may hear the cry of our prayer for our beloved Nation.
We are citizens of Heaven: this is the homeland that awaits us for eternity. On this earth we are also children of a homeland that gave us birth and in which we were raised and educated, a homeland we have served with dedication and courage. Be proud, as Christians and as ραƚɾισts, to be able to give witness today to your faith in God and your love for the United States of America, for its Constitution, and for its President Donald J. Tɾυmρ.
Let us pray…
O Lord, Almighty God, prostrate before Thee we invoke Thy powerful protection in this hour of great turmoil, when darkness seems to be spreading over our beloved Nation.
Make vain the assaults of those who, blinded by vice and hatred of Thee, wish to subject our Nation and the whole world to the tyranny of sin and rêbêllïon. Grant wisdom and courage to those who are called to decide the fortunes of the United States of America, and to those who serve their country with fidelity and honor.
Lord, bless our President and our public officials. For those who exercise the power entrusted to them from above, obtain the graces necessary to carry out their duties with integrity and justice.
O Almighty God, who many times hast manifested the power of Thy right hand at the side of Christian armies, place Thyself at the head of this army of Thy children. Let the prayer we address to Thee through the intercession of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Patroness of the Americas, rise up to Thee, so that we may attain the freedom and peace that Thou hast promised us.
And just as in the time of Joshua, raise up holy heroes and courageous witnesses of the Faith, so also today hear the prayer we raise to Thee, and break down the walls of the City of darkness, granting victory to those who serve under Thy holy banner. Amen.
GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
ONE NATION UNDER GOD
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop
Former Apostolic Nuncio in the United States of America
Great speech; thanks for posting!
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SHAMEFUL.
BORING.
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BORING.
shameful sean.
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shameful sean.
Are you REALLY going to waste our time with your blather???
Did not!
Did so!
And you're 66???
I leave the "Wailing Women" to their misery.
This whole 2nd page is nothing but you whining that you're offended. Thanks for the great content!
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Great speech; thanks for posting!
What is great about it Sean?
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What is great about it Sean?
What's not to like?
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Are you REALLY going to waste our time with your blather???
Did not!
Did so!
And you're 66???
I leave the "Wailing Women" to their misery.
That is just shameful projection sean because you are WASTING YOUR OWN TIME.
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That is just shameful projection sean because you are WASTING YOUR OWN TIME.
Just SHAMEFUL!
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What's not to like?
:facepalm:
You've lost it Sean.
Take heed all.
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:facepalm:
You've lost it Sean.
Take heed all.
I guess that’s better than a response? :facepalm:
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:facepalm:
You've lost it Sean.
Take heed all.
Why take heed? Are you giving us some sort warning that someone in our midst isn't the perfect example of a trad, according to sedeism?
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I guess that’s better than a response? :facepalm:
The same speech you call ill-advised you then later say is a great speech.
Your emotion has taken over your ability to reason.
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Why take heed? Are you giving us some sort warning that someone in our midst isn't the perfect example of a trad, according to sedeism?
She doesn’t like him because he’s not a sede.
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The same speech you call ill-advised you then later say is a great speech.
Your emotion has taken over your ability to reason.
Actually, you haven’t the intellect to be speaking on the matter:
The choice of VENUE was ill-advised.
The SPEECH itself is excellent.
Talk less, pray more.
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She doesn’t like him because he’s not a sede.
No, I don't like him nor trust him because he still follows the Religion of Ecuмenism. Apparently you do too since you think his ecuмenical prayer was GREAT! Between that and your behavior in this thread, I've lost a lot of respect for you.
But I'll leave you two rabid anti-sedes to continue your foaming at the mouth.
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No, I don't like him nor trust him because he still follows the Religion of Ecuмenism. Apparently you do too since you think his ecuмenical prayer was GREAT! Between that and your behavior in this thread, I've lost a lot of respect for you.
But I'll leave you two rabid anti-sedes to continue your foaming at the mouth.
Conflating once again:
The VENUE was somewhat ecuмenical.
The SPEECH was Catholic.
If the same speech is given somewhere else, nobody complains.
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No, I don't like him nor trust him because he still follows the Religion of Ecuмenism. Apparently you do too since you think his ecuмenical prayer was GREAT! Between that and your behavior in this thread, I've lost a lot of respect for you.
But I'll leave you two rabid anti-sedes to continue your foaming at the mouth.
The ecuмenism is a problem, but you seem to expect absolute perfection from someone who has embraced tradition fairly recently. It takes time to understand the full extent of tradition.
When you discovered tradition, did you fully and completely understand it right away? I certainly didn't.
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Thank you for not denying the virtue signaling! :laugh2: :laugh1:
You remind me of my father, Sean. He let his anger run him, he thought it made him strong and right.
In reality when he gave into uncontrolled anger he was weak, blind to his own faults, and sinfully unreasonable.
But he changed dramatically when he almost died. He was truly a changed man the last few years of his life, someone to admire.
It's likely that God will have to do the same thing to you as well Sean.
When He does, don't despair. He loves you and our Lady prays for you.
But also remember that you earned every bit of the suffering.
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Emile, GOD BLESS YOU for your charity, respectfulness, and good will.
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You remind me of my father, Sean. He let his anger run him, he thought it made him strong and right.
In reality when he gave into uncontrolled anger he was weak, blind to his own faults, and sinfully unreasonable.
But he changed dramatically when he almost died. He was truly a changed man the last few years of his life, someone to admire.
It's likely that God will have to do the same thing to you as well Sean.
When He does, don't despair. He loves you and our Lady prays for you.
But also remember that you earned every bit of the suffering.
Emile-
I will pray you can pull out of your pride and vanity.
Always remember it is possible!
It need not control your life.
I’ve even seen worse cases than yours make a turnaround, so don’t despair!
You may have to pay the price, but it will be worth it in the end.
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You are behaving as a shameful bully and with ill will, sean johnson.
We pray for all and their families of CathInfo., and you are in a sorry state.
We will pray that you will stop your poor behavior, grow up, and realize that you
are not pleasing GOD but are the one who is hurting others with your ill will.
WAKE UP, SEAN JOHNSON.
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You are behaving as a shameful bully and with ill will, sean johnson.
We pray for all and their families of CathInfo., and you are in a sorry state.
We will pray that you will stop your poor behavior, grow up, and realize that you
are not pleasing GOD but are the one who is hurting others with your ill will.
WAKE UP, SEAN JOHNSON.
Oh, shut up already. Sheesh!
All you’ve done for 2 pages (!!) is whine about your being insulted.
PUHLEASE!
Too bad you didn’t worry about insulting an archbishop, whom you stupidly suspect of being controlled by Opus Dei.
Repent, or quit wasting all our time.
Maybe you can start a new thread titled, “I’m Really Outraged by Sean Johnson, But I Don’t Think Twice About Slandering Archbishops.”
Get lost, lady.
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Oh, shut up already. Sheesh!
All you’ve done for 2 pages (!!) is whine about your being insulted.
PUHLEASE!
Too bad you didn’t worry about insulting an archbishop, whom you stupidly suspect of being controlled by Opus Dei.
Repent, or quit wasting all our time.
Maybe you can start a new thread titled, “I’m Really Outraged by Sean Johnson, But I Don’t Think Twice About Slandering Archbishops.”
Get lost, lady.
THE GRUMPIES IN YOUR STOMACH are causing you to make up things, and these things are right here in your quote above and elsewhere in this topic.
Now it seems you think that you are so important that your request for a new thread in your name is called for.
Did I not tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself, sean johnson.
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THE GRUMPIES IN YOUR STOMACH are causing you to make up things, and these things are right here in your quote above and elsewhere in this topic.
Now it seems you think that you are so important that your request for a new thread in your name is called for.
Did I tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself, sean johnson.
I don’t think I can help you.
Shaking off the dust...
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I don’t think I can help you.
Shaking off the dust...
GOD BLESS YOU, sean johnson.
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I'm pretty sure that Carlo Maria Viganò was consecrated in the new Novus Ordo rite, so I'm not so sure about "insulting an archbishop" part. I would say it's doubtful, at best. Maybe more like insulting Fr. Vigano.
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I hope Vigano's legit. But I don't follow him closely. I heard him talk about the "deep state" and the "deep Church". Does he name the Jew as the main enemy?
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The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable, but not disturbing to those like me who have tracked his trajectory into tradition since 2018.
Just in that span of three years, Vigano has:
1) Acknowledged and explained (and apologized for) his fault for not rejecting the conciliar ʀɛʋօʟutιօn decades ago;
2) Laid the blame at the conciliar and post-conciliar docuмents themselves (which he says contain not mere ambiguities, but actual doctrinal errors);
3) Acknowledged the righteousness of Lefebvre and his apostolate;
4) Rejected the conciliar church (calling it a counterfeit church);
5) Questioned whether Vatican II is even a bona fide ecuмenical council;
6) Left the door open to the possibility that Francis is not a true pope;
7) Encouraged everyone to abandon the new Mass and new Mass clergy;
8) Made contact with Bishop Williamson and the Resistance;
9) Advised faithful to stay home on Sunday if the Mass they would attend does not sanctify Sunday.
His list of blunders pales in comparison:
1) An ill-advised telespeech at the Jehrico march.
As regards his leaving the door open a crack to attend a pius new Mass (if no traditional Mass is available), I will bet one year from now, that same crack will be half as wide, and will end up only remaining open for those in grave necessity (eg., Archbishop Lefebvre’s famous “cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ” exception).
To me, this man is a gift from God to strengthen wavering souls.
As for those who criticize him for “not doing anything,” you are blind. Teaching the faith is the most important and most needed thing right now, and I believe God has awoken him to fulfill that roll.
He sounds like any Novus Ordo lay person that finally gets it, changes his ways, and starts to go to the trad mass and listen to traditionalist that left decades ago. He has a long way to go. No new arrival has ever been anything but a novice, with a long way to go. I think that "trads" are desperate to crown anyone of importance that comes to realize what we have known for 60 years now. Just like any other Novus Ordo convert, time will tell with Vigano.
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The new mass is the head of the V2, anti-Christ serpent. It must be cut off and destroyed! Once the new mass is 100% abolished, the Church will re-flourish. The new mass is the “test of faith” of our times.
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Until +Vigano realizes this, he cannot be relied upon as having a clear direction out of the murky, V2 forest. If he truly understood the abomination that it is, then his advice to “conservative” novus ordo-ites would be this:
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“Avoid the new mass 100%, as it is a danger to your faith and is an utter blasphemy against God’s true sacrifice on the cross. From now on, all true Catholics should only attend the Latin mass, no exceptions.
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If you do not have a Latin mass within 1 hour of you, pray to Almighty God for guidance on where to go and make plans to move. Offer up this sacrifice for all the blasphemies which occur every Sunday and for the conversion of the pope. Our Lady will guide you in this most Holy need.”
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I thought that I had read that +Vigano recommended that the faithful avoid the N.O.M.
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Brothers, Sisters, Friends, People. We're all Catholics and Christians here.
I just want to point out to you that Catholics are the only true Christians.
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Hi, Quo Vadis. So do you disagree with the Catholic Encyclopedia then?
I hold that validly baptized Christians, who believe explicitly in the Trinity and Incarnation, confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and err in good faith, are real Christians. Msgr. Fenton says such can be saved if they are in good faith.
CE: "The Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) Church (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) of the twentieth century is vastly in advance of that of the sixteenth. She has made up her loss in political power and worldly wealth (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15571a.htm) by increased spiritual influences and efficiency; her adherents are more widespread, more numerous, more fervent (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15753a.htm) than at any time in her history (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07365a.htm), and they are bound to the central Government at Rome (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm) by a more filial affection and a clearer sense of duty (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05215a.htm). Religious (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11164a.htm) education (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05295b.htm) is abundantly provided for clergy (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04049b.htm) and laity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08748a.htm); religious practice, morality (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10559a.htm), and works of charity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03592a.htm) are flourishing; the Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) mission-field is world-wide and rich in harvest. The hierarchy (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07322c.htm) was never so united, never so devoted to the pope (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm). The Roman (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm) unity is successfully resisting the inroads of sects (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13674a.htm), of philosophies (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12025c.htm), of politics.
Can our separated brethren tell a similar tale of their many Churches, even in lands where they are ruled and backed by the secular power (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm)? We do not rejoice at their disintegration, at their falling into religious indifference (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm), or returning into political parties. No, for any shred of Christianity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) is better than blank worldliness. But we do draw this conclusion: that after four centuries the Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) principle of authority is still working out the salvation (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13407a.htm) of the Church (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm), whereas among Protestants the principle of Subjectivism is destroying what remains of their former faith (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm) and driving multitudes into religious indifference (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm) and estrangement from the supernatural (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14336b.htm)." https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm
"Any shred of Christianity is better than blank worldliness". They have a partial Christianity that will always be incomplete in itself.
Catholic Christianity is Complete Christianity, the full 100% Catholic and Apostolic Faith. But other Christians have valid Baptism etc.
Every effort should be made to bring separated Christians back to the Catholic and Apostolic Church. They remain deprived of many gifts.
God Bless.
Totally Vatican II, sickening, a religion that is like a bottle of strawberry jam on a crumb of bread. Totally effeminate, devoid of all Catholic militancy. It is the mindset that got us to the ʀɛʋօʟutιօn of the 1960's.
To bring Catholicism back in order, one needs to get away from 20th century teachings. Feelings oriented people like the writer above should be avoided like the plague.
St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant
People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!
St. Peter Julian Eymard
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I hold that validly baptized Christians, who believe explicitly in the Trinity and Incarnation, confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and err in good faith, are real Christians. Msgr. Fenton says such can be saved if they are in good faith.
You "hold" error. No, they are not REAL Christians. Here you go again subjectivizing faith. Those "Christians" can believe anything they want, but if they don't believe it on the basis of the proper rule of faith, they do not have the proper formal motive of faith. St. Thomas clearly teaches this, that even though such people materially happen to believe some true doctrine, if they do not hold it with the correct rule of faith, then they do not have the supernatural virtue of faith. Whether they are in good faith or bad faith, if they lack a supernatural faith based upon the rule of faith established by God, then their rule of faith ultimately reduces to believing what they want to believe. If they are in good faith, then God will undoubtedly bring them to the true faith.
If these people are able to be saved, then they are in the Church, since there's no salvation outside the Church. Therefore, you too hold the false Vatican II ecclesiology where the Church subsists in the Catholic core but then extends outside of it.
FORMAL heresy has nothing to do with "sincerity" and "good faith". Formal heresy refers to whether or not someone believes what he believes with the correct formal motive of faith that rests upon the proper rule of faith. Material heresy deals with ignorance or a mistake in understanding WHAT has been taught and must be believed. Formal heresy refers to WHY it is believed. That is why it's said that one who rejects a single dogma rejects all of them because it's an implicit repudiation of the rule of faith on which all dogma rests. Protestants are all by definition formal heretics, regardless of how "sincere" they are.
It would be one thing if you referred to these people as Christians in a loose sense, but calling them REAL Christians? That's absurd. You've been reading too much Valtorta.
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St. Thomas Aquinas:
The formal object of faith is the First Truth as manifested in Holy Scripture and in the Church's teaching. Hence if anyone does not adhere as to an infallible and Divine rule to the Church's teaching, which proceeds from the Church's truth manifested in Holy Scripture, such an one has not the habit of faith, but holds the truths of faith not by faith but by some other principle. (II-II, Q. v, a. 3).
Protestants therefore lack the true habit (aka supernatural virtue) of faith because whatever they believe is based on "some other principle." THIS is what is meant by FORMAL heresy, the PRINCIPLE by which one believes whatever is believed.
Over the past three or four hundred years, the subjectivizers have worked at redefining "formality" into "sincerity" or subjective good faith, and the root cause error of Vatican II, as Bishop Williamson rightly points out, is this same subjectivism that has been trending since the so-called Renaissance.
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What's really urgently needed imo are more traditional Priests who offer the Tridentine Mass. There are by now a great majority of faithful Catholics, who go to the NOM, who would love to assist at the TLM if they had the opportunity.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The ONLY mass celebrated up to the Vatican II ʀɛʋօʟutιօn was the TLM, and the ʀɛʋօʟutιօn took place, with all the clergy and people going along.
A beautiful TLM with all the vestments, incense, and marble is not all there is to the faith. If a Catholic is sincere in seeking truth, God will provide them with good priest. There are very few real Catholics in the world, and God provides for them all.
Feelings oriented people like the writer above believe that a beautiful TLM will magically convert sinners if they could just see it. No, what converts people, is the example of Catholics LIVING the faith, and today there are scarcely any to be seen, even at a TLM.
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I hold that validly baptized Christians, who believe explicitly in the Trinity and Incarnation, confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and err in good faith, are real Christians. Msgr. Fenton says such can be saved if they are in good faith.
They may be saved by believing in the central Gospel declaration - 1 Cor. 15:1-5; 2 Cor. 5:19. God is their judge.
But they are divisive schismatics. A very good book that doesn't get the attention it deserves is St. Francis de Sales's The Catholic Controversy.
One of many great points he makes in it against the Protestants is that the prophets of Israel, despite the fact that they saw and "protested" actual and real abominations and idolatry in Israel, never set up another altar, or set up another religion against the Temple cult established as the true faith by God. The original Prots rent the Church and now their "followers" maintain the separation.
Perhaps later I will find the quote from St. Francis and post it here as a jpeg from my book or in some other fashion if I can find online.
I would not acknowledge Prots as "real Christians," or in any way sanction the schism they take part in. Whether their faith will save them is in God's hands.
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It’s almost miraculous how a thread on Vigano can somehow be converted into a BOD thread.
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Here's my take on +Vigano. I don't understanding this thing about not "trusting" him. I think it's code for not liking him. What's there to trust or not trust? He's not actually DOing anything. It's not like he's starting up a separate Traditional movement that would be drawing people away from the existing Traditional groups. In his current position, he's actually opening up a lot of eyes regarding the issues with Vatican II among the conservative NO types like Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin. I don't see him drawing any Traditional Catholics closer to the Novus Ordo; rather, I see him drawing some conservative NO Catholics closer to Tradition. I have not known one Traditional Catholic to express the sentiment that, "ah, because of +Vigano, I should go rejoin the Novus Ordo."
He's actually gone to the RIGHT of the neo-SSPX now. Unlike +Fellay, who claims that 95% of Vatican II is fine and that it just needs some corrections, +Vigano asserts that the entire thing is radically defective and needs to be pitched. While +Fellay has basically agreed to applying a hermeneutic of continuity to Vatican II, +Vigano categorically rejects that and claims this is not possible. Unlike the neo-SSPX, he has stood up against the morality of the ναccιnєs ... and even the entire scamdemic and the ɛƖɛctıon fraud, which the +Fellay-ite SSPX has refused to touch even though it desperately needs to be addressed. He's even publicly floated the idea that Bergoglio may not be a legitimate pope (deferring in this speculation, however, to the Church's judgment -- not unlike EXACTLY what Archbishop Lefebvre did). I have not once seen +Vigano refer to Bergoglio as Francis or Pope or Holy Father ... he constantly just calls him Bergoglio, like the most dogmatic sedevacantists do.
So I feel that +Vigano needs to be supported rather than constantly attacked. It's fine, of course, to disagree with him one one or another of his positions, but this total rejection of +Vigano I find absurd and childish.
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It’s almost miraculous how a thread on Vigano can somehow be converted into a BOD thread.
Please show me where the term "Baptism of Desire" is mentioned anywhere on this thread, Sean. No, what's being discussed is whether Prots are actually real Christians ... which is actually one of the CHIEF errors of Vatican II, claiming that heretics are in fact Christians and our separated brethren. This has precious to do with BOD except in your own mind, and this demonstrates that you have zero clue about the importance of the theological issues being debated here.
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Please show me where the term "Baptism of Desire" is mentioned anywhere on this thread, Sean.
Concedo.
I got my Xavier posts/threads mixed up.
I should say:
“It’s almost miraculous how a thread on the ‘apostolic mission’ of Bishop Zendejas can end up a thread on BOD.”
Ps: Only Catholics are Christians.
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Here's my take on +Vigano. I don't understanding this thing about not "trusting" him. I think it's code for not liking him. What's there to trust or not trust? He's not actually DOing anything. It's not like he's starting up a separate Traditional movement that would be drawing people away from the existing Traditional groups. In his current position, he's actually opening up a lot of eyes regarding the issues with Vatican II among the conservative NO types like Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin. I don't see him drawing any Traditional Catholics closer to the Novus Ordo; rather, I see him drawing some conservative NO Catholics closer to Tradition. I have not known one Traditional Catholic to express the sentiment that, "ah, because of +Vigano, I should go rejoin the Novus Ordo."
He's actually gone to the RIGHT of the neo-SSPX now. Unlike +Fellay, who claims that 95% of Vatican II is fine and that it just needs some corrections, +Vigano asserts that the entire thing is radically defective and needs to be pitched. While +Fellay has basically agreed to applying a hermeneutic of continuity to Vatican II, +Vigano categorically rejects that and claims this is not possible. Unlike the neo-SSPX, he has stood up against the morality of the ναccιnєs ... and even the entire scamdemic and the ɛƖɛctıon fraud, which the +Fellay-ite SSPX has refused to touch even though it desperately needs to be addressed. He's even publicly floated the idea that Bergoglio may not be a legitimate pope (deferring in this speculation, however, to the Church's judgment -- not unlike EXACTLY what Archbishop Lefebvre did). I have not once seen +Vigano refer to Bergoglio as Francis or Pope or Holy Father ... he constantly just calls him Bergoglio, like the most dogmatic sedevacantists do.
So I feel that +Vigano needs to be supported rather than constantly attacked. It's fine, of course, to disagree with him one one or another of his positions, but this total rejection of +Vigano I find absurd and childish.
Perfectly stated.
👏👏👏
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Concedo.
I got my Xavier posts/threads mixed up.
I should say:
“It’s almost miraculous how a thread on the ‘apostolic mission’ of Bishop Zendejas can end up a thread on BOD.”
Ps: Only Catholics are Christians.
What's funny is that Xavier (along with +Fellay) follows Schneider's position on V2 ... that it was perfectly fine except for a detail or two that needs to be corrected ... whereas +Vigano has said that it's radically defective and needs to be thrown out. So +Vigano is closer to the Resistance position, whereas +Schneider is like the neo-SSPX.
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The new mass is the head of the V2, anti-Christ serpent. It must be cut off and destroyed! Once the new mass is 100% abolished, the Church will re-flourish. The new mass is the “test of faith” of our times.
I thought the modernist theology or "subjectivity" is at the head of the V2, anti-Christ serpent as all the original liberals (from the 1600's to 1800's ) and modernist (1800's to early 1900's) celebrated exclusively the Latin mass as was all the Bishops and Cardinals before and during the 2nd Vatican Council. So it seems to me that once the liberalism and modernism thinking, along with subjectivist philosophy and the elimination of homo's, commies and Satanist within the hierarchy, then we can see the Church re-flourish.
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The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable, but not disturbing to those like me who have tracked his trajectory into tradition since 2018.
Just in that span of three years, Vigano has:
1) Acknowledged and explained (and apologized for) his fault for not rejecting the conciliar ʀɛʋօʟutιօn decades ago;
2) Laid the blame at the conciliar and post-conciliar docuмents themselves (which he says contain not mere ambiguities, but actual doctrinal errors);
3) Acknowledged the righteousness of Lefebvre and his apostolate;
4) Rejected the conciliar church (calling it a counterfeit church);
5) Questioned whether Vatican II is even a bona fide ecuмenical council;
6) Left the door open to the possibility that Francis is not a true pope;
7) Encouraged everyone to abandon the new Mass and new Mass clergy;
8) Made contact with Bishop Williamson and the Resistance;
9) Advised faithful to stay home on Sunday if the Mass they would attend does not sanctify Sunday.
His list of blunders pales in comparison:
1) An ill-advised telespeech at the Jehrico march.
As regards his leaving the door open a crack to attend a pius new Mass (if no traditional Mass is available), I will bet one year from now, that same crack will be half as wide, and will end up only remaining open for those in grave necessity (eg., Archbishop Lefebvre’s famous “cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ” exception).
To me, this man is a gift from God to strengthen wavering souls.
As for those who criticize him for “not doing anything,” you are blind. Teaching the faith is the most important and most needed thing right now, and I believe God has awoken him to fulfill that roll.
I share similar hopes. I think it is obvious that we have been witnessing a transformation in Vigano, for the better.
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I hope Vigano's legit. But I don't follow him closely. I heard him talk about the "deep state" and the "deep Church". Does he name the Jew as the main enemy?
No, Jews are for Vigano what SV is for E. Michael Jones
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Hi, Quo Vadis. So do you disagree with the Catholic Encyclopedia then?
I hold that validly baptized Christians, who believe explicitly in the Trinity and Incarnation, confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and err in good faith, are real Christians. Msgr. Fenton says such can be saved if they are in good faith.
CE: "The Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) Church (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) of the twentieth century is vastly in advance of that of the sixteenth. She has made up her loss in political power and worldly wealth (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15571a.htm) by increased spiritual influences and efficiency; her adherents are more widespread, more numerous, more fervent (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15753a.htm) than at any time in her history (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07365a.htm), and they are bound to the central Government at Rome (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm) by a more filial affection and a clearer sense of duty (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05215a.htm). Religious (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11164a.htm) education (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05295b.htm) is abundantly provided for clergy (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04049b.htm) and laity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08748a.htm); religious practice, morality (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10559a.htm), and works of charity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03592a.htm) are flourishing; the Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) mission-field is world-wide and rich in harvest. The hierarchy (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07322c.htm) was never so united, never so devoted to the pope (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm). The Roman (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm) unity is successfully resisting the inroads of sects (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13674a.htm), of philosophies (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12025c.htm), of politics.
Can our separated brethren tell a similar tale of their many Churches, even in lands where they are ruled and backed by the secular power (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm)? We do not rejoice at their disintegration, at their falling into religious indifference (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm), or returning into political parties. No, for any shred of Christianity (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) is better than blank worldliness. But we do draw this conclusion: that after four centuries the Catholic (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) principle of authority is still working out the salvation (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13407a.htm) of the Church (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm), whereas among Protestants the principle of Subjectivism is destroying what remains of their former faith (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm) and driving multitudes into religious indifference (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm) and estrangement from the supernatural (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14336b.htm)." https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm
"Any shred of Christianity is better than blank worldliness". They have a partial Christianity that will always be incomplete in itself.
Catholic Christianity is Complete Christianity, the full 100% Catholic and Apostolic Faith. But other Christians have valid Baptism etc.
Every effort should be made to bring separated Christians back to the Catholic and Apostolic Church. They remain deprived of many gifts.
God Bless.
Xavier,
Pope Pius XII defined who is considered a member of the Catholic Church in his encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi:
“Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.”
I trust this is sufficient to support my case.
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No, Jews are for Vigano what SV is for E. Michael Jones
Perhaps he should get in touch with E Michael Jones then. Vigano could teach Jones that Vatican II is evil and Jones could teach Vigano about the Jєωιѕн Revolutionary Spirit.
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I thought the modernist theology or "subjectivity" is at the head of the V2, anti-Christ serpent as all the original liberals (from the 1600's to 1800's ) and modernist (1800's to early 1900's) celebrated exclusively the Latin mass as was all the Bishops and Cardinals before and during the 2nd Vatican Council.
Well, I agree that V2 is just the culmination of anti-catholic philosophy and poor logic since the 1600s. But...poor thinking can only do so much damage. It's one thing to think heresy; it's quite another to act on it.
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The new mass is V2 in action, thus it is infinitely more dangerous. Worse yet, the new mass as a replacement of the True Mass is a double-edge sword: 1) blasphemy, sacrilege and satanic evils which offends God and calls down His judgement, and 2) the loss of grace, mercy, reparation and thanksgiving due to God, again which calls down His judgement.
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If the crisis consisted of simply V2, then the world would be suffering simply another heresy like Protestantism. But the loss of the True Mass, replaced by a sacrilege, is the true wound which inflicts the Church. The Mass is the source of all grace, truth, holiness and mercy in the world, no matter how much heretical ideals are floating around. In fact, you could argue that V2's heresies were only accepted and took root AFTER the True Mass was gone.
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Speaking of +Vigano, notice how he "woke up" after switching to the True Mass exclusively. A catholic cannot stay in heresy if he is praying the rosary and going to the True Mass. The devil will be expelled eventually.
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Mysterium Fidei: Vigano appears to be invalidly ordained. I believe it is from 1967? when the rites were changed of the New Order. If so, the pope is also invalidly ordained.
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Mysterium Fidei: Vigano appears to be invalidly ordained. I believe it is from 1967? when the rites were changed of the New Order. If so, the pope is also invalidly ordained.
His priestly ordination predates the introduction of the new Ordinal in 1968, and is, therefore, presumed by all sides to be certainly valid.
His episcopal consecration, however, was not until 1992 by JPII (ie., although JPII was consecrated according to the certainly valid traditional rite, by a Bishop who was himself consecrated according to the traditional rite- so there is no question regarding validity on that score- Vigano was nevertheless consecrated by JPII according to the new rite, which is.....less than certainly valid).
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His priestly ordination predates the introduction of the new Ordinal in 1968, and is, therefore, presumed by all sides to be certainly valid.
His episcopal consecration, however, was not until 1992 by JPII (ie., although JPII was consecrated according to the certainly valid traditional rite, by a Bishop who was himself consecrated according to the traditional rite- so there is no question regarding validity on that score- Vigano was nevertheless consecrated by JPII according to the new rite, which is.....less than certainly valid).
Good assessment.
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PS: As an aside, after BXVI was elected (ie., the first pope to be elected who was consecrated according to the new rite), a firestorm of debate regarding the validity of the new rite ensued.
I would have to go back and refresh my memory regarding all the arguments coming from the SSPX and Avrille in defense of validity, and Fr. Cekada and Rore Sanctifica against validity, but I do not recall either side alleging that the new rite of episcopal consecration was covered by infallibility, indefectibility, or as a secondary object of infallibility.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seemed most of the debate centered around whether or not the essential form was sufficiently univocal or invalidly ambiguous.
If my memory is correct in this regard, it is an interesting concession by both sides.
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Mysterium Fidei: Vigano appears to be invalidly ordained. I believe it is from 1967? when the rites were changed of the New Order. If so, the pope is also invalidly ordained.
I believe that rite was changed in 1968. Arch+ Vigano's ordination was 24th March 1968.
Bergoglio was ordained 13 December 1969
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Totally Vatican II, sickening, a religion that is like a bottle of strawberry jam on a crumb of bread. Totally effeminate, devoid of all Catholic militancy. It is the mindset that got us to the ʀɛʋօʟutιօn of the 1960's.
To bring Catholicism back in order, one needs to get away from 20th century teachings. Feelings oriented people like the writer above should be avoided like the plague.
Very well said!
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I believe that rite was changed in 1968. Arch+ Vigano's ordination was 24th March 1968.
Bergoglio was ordained 13 December 1969
Vigano was ordained on March 24, 1968.
The new rite of priestly ordination was not imposed until June 18, 1968.
http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html (http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html)
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Vigano was ordained on March 24, 1968.
The new rite of priestly ordination was not imposed until June 18, 1968.
http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html (http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680618_pontificalis-romani.html)
And then I'm sure it took a while before copies of the New Rite were printed and distributed, and even then some bishops probably lagged behind in implementing it, sticking with the old familiar rite for a while longer. But anyone ordained before June 18, 1968 would certainly be valid.
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Archbishop Vigano may also be a Bishop even consecrated in the new rite, if the Bishop that consecrated him was valid by being consecrated in the old rite himself. That would make Archbishop Vigano a valid Bishop in his person , although he would not have the ability to consecrate or ordain anyone himself as the new rite (Bishops) cannot transmit that authority. A new-rite Bishop that was consecrated by a new- rite Bishop is not a valid Bishop
( I'm thinking this is correct...)
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Ladislaus, here are the Saints, Popes, Fathers and Theologians.
These quotes do absolutely nothing to prove your non-Catholic position. Between your promotion of Valtorta, Garbandal, and varying degrees of religious indifferentism, undermining EENS dogma, you have shown yourself to be rather consistently now a pernicious enemy of the Traditional Catholic faith.
You need to just go away and get off this forum, and stop promoting your brand of Modernism. I'm frankly getting sick and tired of your anti-Catholic posts and your constant effeminate emoting in support of one fake private revelation after another. If didn't have any other information to the contrary, I would assume from your posts that you are in fact actually a woman.
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Archbishop Vigano may also be a Bishop even consecrated in the new rite, if the Bishop that consecrated him was valid by being consecrated in the old rite himself. That would make Archbishop Vigano a valid Bishop in his person , although he would not have the ability to consecrate or ordain anyone himself as the new rite (Bishops) cannot transmit that authority. A new-rite Bishop that was consecrated by a new- rite Bishop is not a valid Bishop
( I'm thinking this is correct...)
You don't need to be a bishop to have jurisdiction. Abbots can have it and even laymen can.
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- refuse to vote for and support President Tɾυmρ, which could have played a role in his losing.
What "played a role" in Pres. Trump's loss was theft, not pure and not so simple.