Here's my take on +Vigano.  I don't understanding this thing about not "trusting" him.  I think it's code for not liking him.  What's there to trust or not trust?  He's not actually DOing anything.  It's not like he's starting up a separate Traditional movement that would be drawing people away from the existing Traditional groups.  In his current position, he's actually opening up a lot of eyes regarding the issues with Vatican II among the conservative NO types like Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin.  I don't see him drawing any Traditional Catholics closer to the Novus Ordo; rather, I see him drawing some conservative NO Catholics closer to Tradition.  I have not known one Traditional Catholic to express the sentiment that, "ah, because of +Vigano, I should go rejoin the Novus Ordo."

He's actually gone to the RIGHT of the neo-SSPX now.  Unlike +Fellay, who claims that 95% of Vatican II is fine and that it just needs some corrections, +Vigano asserts that the entire thing is radically defective and needs to be pitched.  While +Fellay has basically agreed to applying a hermeneutic of continuity to Vatican II, +Vigano categorically rejects that and claims this is not possible.  Unlike the neo-SSPX, he has stood up against the morality of the ναccιnєs ... and even the entire scamdemic and the ɛƖɛctıon fraud, which the +Fellay-ite SSPX has refused to touch even though it desperately needs to be addressed.  He's even publicly floated the idea that Bergoglio may not be a legitimate pope (deferring in this speculation, however, to the Church's judgment -- not unlike EXACTLY what Archbishop Lefebvre did).  I have not once seen +Vigano refer to Bergoglio as Francis or Pope or Holy Father ... he constantly just calls him Bergoglio, like the most dogmatic sedevacantists do.

So I feel that +Vigano needs to be supported rather than constantly attacked.  It's fine, of course, to disagree with him one one or another of his positions, but this total rejection of +Vigano I find absurd and childish.

Please show me where the term "Baptism of Desire" is mentioned anywhere on this thread, Sean.

Concedo.

I got my Xavier posts/threads mixed up.

I should say:

“It’s almost miraculous how a thread on the ‘apostolic mission’ of Bishop Zendejas can end up a thread on BOD.”

Ps: Only Catholics are Christians.

Concedo.

I got my Xavier posts/threads mixed up.

I should say:

“It’s almost miraculous how a thread on the ‘apostolic mission’ of Bishop Zendejas can end up a thread on BOD.”

Ps: Only Catholics are Christians.

What's funny is that Xavier (along with +Fellay) follows Schneider's position on V2 ... that it was perfectly fine except for a detail or two that needs to be corrected ... whereas +Vigano has said that it's radically defective and needs to be thrown out.  So +Vigano is closer to the Resistance position, whereas +Schneider is like the neo-SSPX.

The criticisms some have made of Vigano in this thread are reasonable, but not disturbing to those like me who have tracked his trajectory into tradition since 2018.

Just in that span of three years, Vigano has:

1) Acknowledged and explained (and apologized for) his fault for not rejecting the conciliar ʀɛʋօʟutιօn decades ago;

2) Laid the blame at the conciliar and post-conciliar docuмents themselves (which he says contain not mere ambiguities, but actual doctrinal errors);

3) Acknowledged the righteousness of Lefebvre and his apostolate;

4) Rejected the conciliar church (calling it a counterfeit church);

5) Questioned whether Vatican II is even a bona fide ecuмenical council;

6) Left the door open to the possibility that Francis is not a true pope;

7) Encouraged everyone to abandon the new Mass and new Mass clergy;

8) Made contact with Bishop Williamson and the Resistance;

9) Advised faithful to stay home on Sunday if the Mass they would attend does not sanctify Sunday.

His list of blunders pales in comparison:

1) An ill-advised telespeech at the Jehrico march.

As regards his leaving the door open a crack to attend a pius new Mass (if no traditional Mass is available), I will bet one year from now, that same crack will be half as wide, and will end up only remaining open for those in grave necessity (eg., Archbishop Lefebvre’s famous “cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ” exception).  

To me, this man is a gift from God to strengthen wavering souls.

As for those who criticize him for “not doing anything,” you are blind.  Teaching the faith is the most important and most needed thing right now, and I believe God has awoken him to fulfill that roll.

I share similar hopes.  I think it is obvious that we have been witnessing a transformation in Vigano, for the better.

Hi, Quo Vadis. So do you disagree with the Catholic Encyclopedia then?

I hold that validly baptized Christians, who believe explicitly in the Trinity and Incarnation, confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and err in good faith, are real Christians. Msgr. Fenton says such can be saved if they are in good faith.

CE: "The Catholic Church of the twentieth century is vastly in advance of that of the sixteenth. She has made up her loss in political power and worldly wealth by increased spiritual influences and efficiency; her adherents are more widespread, more numerous, more fervent than at any time in her history, and they are bound to the central Government at Rome by a more filial affection and a clearer sense of duty. Religious education is abundantly provided for clergy and laity; religious practice, morality, and works of charity are flourishing; the Catholic mission-field is world-wide and rich in harvest. The hierarchy was never so united, never so devoted to the pope. The Roman unity is successfully resisting the inroads of sects, of philosophies, of politics.

Can our separated brethren tell a similar tale of their many Churches, even in lands where they are ruled and backed by the secular power? We do not rejoice at their disintegration, at their falling into religious indifference, or returning into political parties. No, for any shred of Christianity is better than blank worldliness. But we do draw this conclusion: that after four centuries the Catholic principle of authority is still working out the salvation of the Church, whereas among Protestants the principle of Subjectivism is destroying what remains of their former faith and driving multitudes into religious indifference and estrangement from the supernatural." https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

"Any shred of Christianity is better than blank worldliness". They have a partial Christianity that will always be incomplete in itself.

Catholic Christianity is Complete Christianity, the full 100% Catholic and Apostolic Faith. But other Christians have valid Baptism etc.

Every effort should be made to bring separated Christians back to the Catholic and Apostolic Church. They remain deprived of many gifts.

God Bless.

Xavier,

Pope Pius XII defined who is considered a member of the Catholic Church in his encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi:

“Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.”

I trust this is sufficient to support my case.

I thought the modernist theology or "subjectivity" is at the head of the V2, anti-Christ serpent as all the original liberals (from the 1600's to 1800's ) and modernist (1800's to early 1900's) celebrated  exclusively the Latin mass as was all the Bishops and Cardinals before and during the 2nd Vatican Council.

Well, I agree that V2 is just the culmination of anti-catholic philosophy and poor logic since the 1600s.  But...poor thinking can only do so much damage.  It's one thing to think heresy; it's quite another to act on it. 
.
The new mass is V2 in action, thus it is infinitely more dangerous.  Worse yet, the new mass as a replacement of the True Mass is a double-edge sword:  1) blasphemy, sacrilege and satanic evils which offends God and calls down His judgement, and 2) the loss of grace, mercy, reparation and thanksgiving due to God, again which calls down His judgement.
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If the crisis consisted of simply V2, then the world would be suffering simply another heresy like Protestantism.  But the loss of the True Mass, replaced by a sacrilege, is the true wound which inflicts the Church.  The Mass is the source of all grace, truth, holiness and mercy in the world, no matter how much heretical ideals are floating around.  In fact, you could argue that V2's heresies were only accepted and took root AFTER the True Mass was gone.
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Speaking of +Vigano, notice how he "woke up" after switching to the True Mass exclusively.  A catholic cannot stay in heresy if he is praying the rosary and going to the True Mass.  The devil will be expelled eventually.

Mysterium Fidei:  Vigano appears to be invalidly ordained.  I believe it is from 1967? when the rites were changed of the New Order.  If so, the pope is also invalidly ordained.

His priestly ordination predates the introduction of the new Ordinal in 1968, and is, therefore, presumed by all sides to be certainly valid.

His episcopal consecration, however, was not until 1992 by JPII (ie., although JPII was consecrated according to the certainly valid traditional rite, by a Bishop who was himself consecrated according to the traditional rite- so there is no question regarding validity on that score-  Vigano was nevertheless consecrated by JPII according to the new rite, which is.....less than certainly valid).