Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium  (Read 9183 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Michelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 422
  • Reputation: +456/-54
  • Gender: Female
Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2023, 07:53:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • It's unclear to me why Fr. Vigano is putting himself out as a spokesman against the "deep church" and "deep state".  What is his solution?  What is he trying to accomplish?  He's only publishing what's already known.

    Offline de Lugo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 563
    • Reputation: +421/-74
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #16 on: November 06, 2023, 08:01:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's unclear to me why Fr. Vigano is putting himself out as a spokesman against the "deep church" and "deep state".  What is his solution?  What is he trying to accomplish?  He's only publishing what's already known.

    Mme. Michelle-

    His solution is Resistance.

    What he wants to accomplish is the restoration of Tradition.

    And if he's only publishing what's already known, then why are you feigning ignorance?

    Do you hope Msgr. Vigano fails?
    Noblesse oblige.


    Offline Michelle

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 422
    • Reputation: +456/-54
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #17 on: November 06, 2023, 08:21:16 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Mme. Michelle-

    His solution is Resistance.

    What he wants to accomplish is the restoration of Tradition.

    And if he's only publishing what's already known, then why are you feigning ignorance?

    Do you hope Msgr. Vigano fails?
    Feigning ignorance about what?
    Do I hope he fails?  Fail at what?  He's preaching to the choir.  These letters he puts out are directed at the resistance and traditionalists who have been persevering in the faith since Vat ll.  

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2041/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #18 on: November 06, 2023, 08:34:34 PM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • Mme. Michelle-

    His solution is Resistance.

    What he wants to accomplish is the restoration of Tradition.

    And if he's only publishing what's already known, then why are you feigning ignorance?

    Do you hope Msgr. Vigano fails?


    So last week he was telling a crowd of Zionists they are the

    "people of god" 

    and this week he wants to restore Tradition?  





    And if anyone questions it, they are evil.    :trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface:



    Cue Lad's emotional tirade directed at me or anyone else who dares to ask questions.
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Plenus Venter

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1566
    • Reputation: +1282/-100
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #19 on: November 07, 2023, 06:22:42 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's unclear to me why Fr. Vigano is putting himself out as a spokesman against the "deep church" and "deep state".  What is his solution?  What is he trying to accomplish?  He's only publishing what's already known.
    You are at pains to let us know your opinion of the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration. We have heard you. The Resistance does not share your certainty on this matter. There is doubt, certainly. Here is not the place for that discussion.
    Archbishop Vigano is fulfilling the first duty of a successor of the Apostles: preaching the gospel and defending the flock of Christ from the marauding wolves.
    Read the epistle and gospel from the common Mass of a Doctor.
    He is almost peerless in his defense of the Faith and condemnation of errors. Such a moving testimony has scarcely been heard since the days of Archbishop Lefebvre.
    He is possibly unmatched by any of his traditional confreres in the episcopacy in terms of his authority and sphere of influence on account of the positions he has filled in the Church.
    He is certainly not just preaching to the choir.
    He is opening the eyes of many who have laboured under the same illusion that he did for so long.
    To those of us who have been many years in Tradition, he is giving us consolation in this lonely battle, and courage to continue the good fight for the Faith of Our Fathers.
    In this late stage of the battle, when older warriors have lost their way and their voices are no longer heard, what a consolation and guide he is! May God bless him and keep him ad multos annos!
    Any Catholic who is not encouraged and grateful to God for such an extraordinary conversion and wonderful defense of the Faith does not have the spirit of Our Lord Jesus Christ and has little love for the Church and for souls.


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11528
    • Reputation: +6476/-1195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #20 on: November 07, 2023, 06:37:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You are at pains to let us know your opinion of the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration. We have heard you. The Resistance does not share your certainty on this matter. There is doubt, certainly. Here is not the place for that discussion.
    Archbishop Vigano is fulfilling the first duty of a successor of the Apostles: preaching the gospel and defending the flock of Christ from the marauding wolves.
    Read the epistle and gospel from the common Mass of a Doctor.
    He is almost peerless in his defense of the Faith and condemnation of errors. Such a moving testimony has scarcely been heard since the days of Archbishop Lefebvre.
    He is possibly unmatched by any of his traditional confreres in the episcopacy in terms of his authority and sphere of influence on account of the positions he has filled in the Church.
    He is certainly not just preaching to the choir.
    He is opening the eyes of many who have laboured under the same illusion that he did for so long.
    To those of us who have been many years in Tradition, he is giving us consolation in this lonely battle, and courage to continue the good fight for the Faith of Our Fathers.
    In this late stage of the battle, when older warriors have lost their way and their voices are no longer heard, what a consolation and guide he is! May God bless him and keep him ad multos annos!
    Any Catholic who is not encouraged and grateful to God for such an extraordinary conversion and wonderful defense of the Faith does not have the spirit of Our Lord Jesus Christ and has little love for the Church and for souls.
    Except when he takes part in political/religious rallies.

    How so?  Vigano doesn't have ordinary jurisdiction.

    Ah, so those of us who question Vigano or don't believe he's all that he's cracked up to be have little love for the Church or souls nor the spirit of Christ.  Nice. 

    Offline B from A

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1247
    • Reputation: +824/-135
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #21 on: November 07, 2023, 06:53:45 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I wonder what nefarious agenda he has for writing all this to further the goals of Opus Dei, the Masons, and the sun-worshipping pagan Luciferian Satanists to whom he's beholden.  He must be gate-keeping against something ... though I can't figure out what that might be.

    :laugh1:

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12349
    • Reputation: +7848/-2433
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #22 on: November 07, 2023, 10:03:01 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Okay, but +Vigano hasn't even been censored by Rome, that I know of. Why would the Modernists leave him alone? They certainly didn't leave +ABL alone.
    +Vigano is retired and, at present, his actions amount to writing letters, e-sermons, and virtual conference videos.  He doesn't hold any public office so kinda hard to censor him.  Plus, I doubt he would listen anyway.  He's on new-rome's blacklist for trying to expose Francis' pedo network.  He has nothing to lose at this point.


    +ABL was running a seminary.  He had to play politics with new-rome to not get it shut down.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12349
    • Reputation: +7848/-2433
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #23 on: November 07, 2023, 10:08:00 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    It's unclear to me why Fr. Vigano is putting himself out as a spokesman against the "deep church" and "deep state".  What is his solution?  What is he trying to accomplish?  He's only publishing what's already known.
    +Vigano is in a unique position of having the indult crowd (i.e. those of goodwill, not the likes of Michael Matt) listen to him, because he was part of new-rome for so many years.  He understands what these people are going through and also the issues/questions they have about V2 and the new mass.  So, his apostolate at this point is to wake up those people and push them more towards traditionalism and pre-V2 orthodoxy.


    When you say he's saying "what's already known", you are speaking from a Trad standpoint.  But that's not +Vigano's main audience, who have, for decades viewed Traditionalism as "fringe" and "extreme".  +Vigano is trying to tell them, "Hey, Traditionalism was right all along, and here's why."  

    Offline Michelle

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 422
    • Reputation: +456/-54
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #24 on: November 07, 2023, 10:40:28 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • +Vigano is retired and, at present, his actions amount to writing letters, e-sermons, and virtual conference videos.  He doesn't hold any public office so kinda hard to censor him.  Plus, I doubt he would listen anyway.  He's on new-rome's blacklist for trying to expose Francis' pedo network.  He has nothing to lose at this point.


    +ABL was running a seminary.  He had to play politics with new-rome to not get it shut down.
    Fair enough, but what is the purpose of his speeches to ecuмenical gatherings such as the Jericho March and the Re-awaken America movement?  Also his all embracing letters to America and Trump?  Those activities go contrary to Catholic teaching and the faithful just can't brush it off as nothing.  We can't say we don't care what the Church teaches.  Charity is to God first.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46855
    • Reputation: +27727/-5147
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #25 on: November 07, 2023, 10:44:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • So last week he was telling a crowd of Zionists they are the

    "people of god"

    and this week he wants to restore Tradition? 





    And if anyone questions it, they are evil.    :trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface:



    Cue Lad's emotional tirade directed at me or anyone else who dares to ask questions.

    Sure.  Every time I debunk one of your slanders, it's an "emotional tirade" ... making it so you don't have to refute or retract any of your slanders.  Nice try attempting to slither out of it.  I'm still waiting for you to retract the grave slanders regarding the "So mote it be" and the "pagan sun-god worshipping Satanist" accusations against +Vigano.  After having been given several opportunities to retract those grave calumnies and having refused to do so, I would have banned you for grave public calumny and slander.

    Nearly all of your accusations has been refuted with substance and actual argument, which you won't and cannot refute, so you think you can slither out of it by claiming these arguments and this substance amounts to little more than "emotional tirade".  Pathetic really.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46855
    • Reputation: +27727/-5147
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #26 on: November 07, 2023, 10:47:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fair enough, but what is the purpose of his speeches to ecuмenical gatherings such as the Jericho March and the Re-awaken America movement?  Also his all embracing letters to America and Trump?  Those activities go contrary to Catholic teaching and the faithful just can't brush it off as nothing.

    No they don't.  It's been repeatedly pointed out to you that the contexts of those gatherings were political.  They were not ecuмenical gatherings.  So more slander against +Vigano, attempting to characterize him as having engaged in communicatio in sacris with non-Catholics, when it was nothing more than communication in secular matters, which is not forbidden.  It is not forbidden for Catholics to participate, for instance, in various Pro Life activities.  Numerous Traditional clergy sponsor trips to the "March for Life" every year.  Despite the fact that the participants of such events are not all Catholics, it's not forbidden for Catholics to participate because it's clearly understood that there are people of different religious there and simply attending does not associate you with any particular religion.  Now, it would be forbidden for you to attend something called "Lutherans for Life" or something along those lines, but not a "March for Life" or any of the ones +Vigano made appearances at.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6790
    • Reputation: +3467/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #27 on: November 07, 2023, 10:54:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • +Vigano is retired and, at present, his actions amount to writing letters, e-sermons, and virtual conference videos.  He doesn't hold any public office so kinda hard to censor him.  Plus, I doubt he would listen anyway.  He's on new-rome's blacklist for trying to expose Francis' pedo network.  He has nothing to lose at this point.


    +ABL was running a seminary.  He had to play politics with new-rome to not get it shut down.

    It's interesting how the history of the SSPX isn't really known anymore. Rome withdrew canonical approval for Econe and its accompanying institutions in 1975. Rome expected that Econe would then be shut down, but +ABL ignored Rome and kept Econe going. +ABL then began a series of appeals to Rome, which were all rejected.
    +ABL was then suspended in 1976.

    Pope Paul Vl wrote to +ABL in June, 1975. Here's the letter:

    "Dear Brother,

    It is with sorrow that we write to you today. With sorrow because We appreciate the interior anguish of a man who sees the annihilation of his hopes, the ruin of the initiative he believes he has taken for the good of the Church.  With sorrow because we think of the confusion of the young people who have followed you, full of ardor, and now they find themselves in a blind alley. But opur grief is even greater to note that the decision of the competent authority--although formulated very clearly, and fully justified, it may be said, by your refusal to modify your public and persistent opposition to the Second Vatican Council, to the post-conciliar reforms, and to the orientations to which the Pope himself is committed--that this decision should still lend itself to the discussion even to the extent of leading you to seek some juridicial possibility of invalidating it."

    We can see from the above how the modernists then hated tradition, and strove to stamp it out, but +ABL kept going. He didn't just use words as +Vigano does. He did something concrete.

    I find it odd that +Vigano, who is fairly new to Tradition and never defended it before his rise to trad stardom 6 or so years ago, is now the spokesman for so many trads. I find his communications rather droll in comparison to the communications of +ABL, but if some here find him to be an amazing defender of Tradition, that's their choice.

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46855
    • Reputation: +27727/-5147
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #28 on: November 07, 2023, 10:57:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Unlike Msgr. Lefebvre, Msgr. Vigano is not running a seminary and ordaining men--and doing so explicitly against the wishes of Rome and whilst the ordinands lack dimissorial letters. Rome, of course, does not recognise an ecclesiastical crisis, especially since Rome is the responsible agent for the crisis. Therefore, from Rome's perspective, Msgr. Lefebvre's actions were serious delicts. Msgr. Vigano has done nothing similar...yet.

    Not only that, but the less publicity they give him, the better it is for Modernist Rome.  If they were to publicly censure or excommunicate him, it would simply draw more attention to his allegations of apostasy on the part of the current Vatican.  Not only that, but this would be seen as a vindictive act on the part of Bergoglio, since +Vigano initially broke from the Conciliar Church over Jorge's coverup of McCarrick and other predators, and it would be seen as a continuation of Bergoglio's attempts to coverup for the coverup.  Due to that history alone, there's no way that Bergoglio is going to draw more attention to it.  In the mainstream media, the theological dispute between +Vigano and Bergoglio would be lost, and the focus would be almost exclusively on +Vigano's exposure of Bergoglio's coverup of child predation.

    Offline Gunter

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 313
    • Reputation: +130/-81
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Vigano on a Decades-Old Pseudo Magisterium
    « Reply #29 on: November 07, 2023, 10:59:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's interesting how the history of the SSPX isn't really known anymore. Rome withdrew canonical approval for Econe and its accompanying institutions in 1975. Rome expected that Econe would then be shut down, but +ABL ignored Rome and kept Econe going. +ABL then began a series of appeals to Rome, which were all rejected.
    +ABL was then suspended in 1975.

    Pope Paul Vl wrote to +ABL in June, 1976. Here's the letter:

    "Dear Brother,

    It is with sorrow that we write to you today. With sorrow because We appreciate the interior anguish of a man who sees the annihilation of his hopes, the ruin of the initiative he believes he has taken for the good of the Church.  With sorrow because we think of the confusion of the young people who have followed you, full of ardor, and now they find themselves in a blind alley. But opur grief is even greater to note that the decision of the competent authority--although formulated very clearly, and fully justified, it may be said, by your refusal to modify your public and persistent opposition to the Second Vatican Council, to the post-conciliar reforms, and to the orientations to which the Pope himself is committed--that this decision should still lend itself to the discussion even to the extent of leading you to seek some juridicial possibility of invalidating it."

    We can see from the above how the modernists then hated tradition, and strove to stamp it out, but +ABL kept going. He didn't just use words as +Vigano does. He did something concrete.

    I find it odd that +Vigano, who is fairly new to Tradition and never defended it before his rise to trad stardom 6 or so years ago, is now the spokesman for so many trads. I find his communications rather droll in comparison to the communications of +ABL, but if some here find him to be an amazing defender of Tradition, that's their choice.
    I agree.  There are .any who have labored in the heat of the day but every man shall receive a penny.