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Author Topic: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors  (Read 4476 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2023, 08:26:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: dxcat40 on October 09, 2023, 08:04:09 AM
    Give it up, Lad. Get help. You are just wasting our time. You have these episodes every now and again, but you already told us you were turning over a new leaf. What happened to that? How can anyone trust anything you say when these resolutions don't even last a week?

    I'm not giving it up until you retract your slander that there are "anti anti-Communists" here on CathInfo (there are none) and your slander that I was defending the Chicoms, which I have never once done.
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    Offline magdalena

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #46 on: October 09, 2023, 09:25:54 AM »
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    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #47 on: October 09, 2023, 10:02:42 AM »
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    Sorry to go off topic. Pax, you now hold the sedevacantist position? Does it pertain only to Bergoglio or does it include the other usurpers after 1958 (or 1963)? If this is correct, when did you come to this conclusion?
    I was responding to Dxcat's assertion that the majority of nominal catholics would reject any condemnation of Francis (or V2 or the new mass).  My point was that the majority of novus ordoites aren't catholics.  This is true regardless of sede or non-sede views.

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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #48 on: October 09, 2023, 10:10:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 09, 2023, 08:26:42 AM
    I'm not giving it up until you retract your slander that there are "anti anti-Communists" here on CathInfo (there are none) and your slander that I was defending the Chicoms, which I have never once done.

    In the first place, it would be libel if what you claim is true. That is still pretty dubious even if it were true, for reasons of the nature of this platform. I also explained why I wrote what I did and a more reasonable person could understand it is not, but you will hold to your errors and double down regardless if your opponent is critical of your views.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #49 on: October 09, 2023, 10:11:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 09, 2023, 10:02:42 AM
    I was responding to Dxcat's assertion that the majority of nominal catholics would reject any condemnation of Francis (or V2 or the new mass).  My point was that the majority of novus ordoites aren't catholics.  This is true regardless of sede or non-sede views.

    Thanks for the clarification, so I assume you still hold the R&R position.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #50 on: October 09, 2023, 10:14:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on October 09, 2023, 10:11:42 AM
    Thanks for the clarification, so I assume you still hold the R&R position.

    It's seemed to me that Pax has shifted more toward an impoundist/privationist view of things, but I don't want to speak for him.  That's my perception.
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    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #51 on: October 09, 2023, 10:39:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 08, 2023, 12:55:44 AM

    The hierarchy of the Catholic Church was already dismantled at VII when 99% of them declared no need for the First Commandment or the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus.

    They left and started a new church where "no Jesus is necessary" since we all go to Heaven now.  smh

    If that wasn't the Great Apostasy then what on earth could it be?

    That doesn't mean the gates of Hell prevailed since the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith is still here. 

    But it's NOT just not a side chapel in the Pantheon of gods Chrislamic church of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr lead by the demon worshipper in Rome.

    I didn't respond to this, and I normally don't to this subject, but it is important to note that the Catholic hierarchy cannot simply disappear and that one's submission to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. How exactly we interpret this, the problems resulting from Vatican II, and adequately respond have been covered ceaselessly on CathInfo. What I wanted to express was that the enemy is not done with the historical institutions managed from the Vatican, but are actively working on them from within and without. The SSPX is another big target and, as we all know, may very well come out even more openly as a subverted institution.

    Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 08, 2023, 12:55:44 AM

    Now Vigano has named on several occasions three Katechons (that which holds back the Antichrist):

    1. Benedict  (who he declared went to Heaven without purgatory :facepalm:)
    2. Trump  (Vax Daddy holding back the deep state.  LOL :clown::laugh1:)
    3. Moscow  (the heretical sect there is our "messiah")

    His narrative is that the Church was destroyed by the "deep Church" when they took down the "oh so conservative Benedict" and now we must look to the

    "Third Rome"-----Moscow.  (Dugin also calls Moscow the Katechon)

    Plus Vigano has prophesized that Trump will negotiate a peace deal with Putin.

    The rest of your post after this quotation is speculative, but this is an important matter to consider: Vigano's eschatology. It seems like most of the active posters want to give him the benefit of the doubt or remain neutral, but I am sure as the war comes nearer we will see more of these end times (or end times-like) predictions were always fraudulent.

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Vigano: Letter to Friends and Benefactors
    « Reply #52 on: October 09, 2023, 12:29:58 PM »
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    It's seemed to me that Pax has shifted more toward an impoundist/privationist view of things, but I don't want to speak for him.  That's my perception.
    Yes.  Long ago, I started with R&R, just because that's what I was taught.  I didn't put much thought into it. 

    Once I looked into the whole issue, I started to see similarities between +ABL/"classic sspx R&R", +Guerard des Laurier, Fr Wathen and (now) Fr Chazal.  So, impoundest/privationist makes sense to me.

    I still think one could make the argument for some kind of R&R, because (legally speaking) I don't see where V2/new mass/any-other-conciliar-changes are binding under pain of sin.  I hold this *possibility* because I think God, even amidst this unprecedented crisis, has put limits on what the heretic/anti-pope/non-popes of V2 (whatever you want to label it) can do.  Thus, even if one was an novus ordo, or indulter, or sspx, or sede -- they should all come to the same conclusion (if they are of goodwill) -- namely, the conciliar church/popes are not the Catholic Church.  And no one is bound to accept these changes -- and there are multiple reasons -- doctrinal, legal, theological, liturgical, etc -- which all point in the same direction.  In other words, the papal question could be completely ignored and you can still come to the same conclusion as sedes.
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