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Author Topic: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon  (Read 4295 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2023, 05:36:32 AM »
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  • Though Miser often over-reacts to, well, a lot of things, I do find it odd that +Vigano would use this phrase (if it can be called that) to end his communication with. Hopefully it is a mistranslation. In doing a google search, I can't find that Catholics use this phrase. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #16 on: January 10, 2023, 06:15:24 AM »
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  • Though Miser often over-reacts to, well, a lot of things, I do find it odd that +Vigano would use this phrase (if it can be called that) to end his communication with. Hopefully it is a mistranslation. In doing a google search, I can't find that Catholics use this phrase.

    Morons don’t realize he never used the word “mote” that triggered Miser.

    FOR THEM, secret Opus Dei Jєω Chabad Kabbala Masonic NWO Rabbinic тαℓмυdic  Archbishop infiltrators always out themselves by NOT WUITE using Masonic phrases like Amen (ie., so be it; so may it be).

    The number of dipshits on this forum is astounding (and they’re so prevalent that they tend to be the more popular)!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #17 on: January 10, 2023, 06:42:50 AM »
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  • Morons don’t realize he never used the word “mote” that triggered Miser.

    FOR THEM, secret Opus Dei Jєω Chabad Kabbala Masonic NWO Rabbinic тαℓмυdic  Archbishop infiltrators always out themselves by NOT WUITE using Masonic phrases like Amen (ie., so be it; so may it be).

    The number of dipshits on this forum is astounding (and they’re so prevalent that they tend to be the more popular)!

    I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say.

    I do realize that +Vigano didn't write..."so mote it be," as Miser referred to.

    He wrote instead, according to your OP: "And so may it be" at the end of his written communication. I do find it odd that he would use "And so may it be" at the end of his communication. Is this a typical way for a bishop to end a written communication, do you know? It might be.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #18 on: January 10, 2023, 06:48:06 AM »
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  • I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say.

    I do realize that +Vigano didn't write..."so mote it be," as Miser referred to.

    He wrote instead, according to your OP: "And so may it be" at the end of his written communication. I do find it odd that he would use "And so may it be" at the end of his communication. Is this a typical way for a bishop to end a written communication, do you know? It might be.

    My comment was not directed to you.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #19 on: January 10, 2023, 06:57:32 AM »
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  • Though Miser often over-reacts to, well, a lot of things, I do find it odd that +Vigano would use this phrase (if it can be called that) to end his communication with. Hopefully it is a mistranslation. In doing a google search, I can't find that Catholics use this phrase.

    This phrase simply means "Amen", or could also be a traslation of "Deus vult", and people have to recall that +Vigano is Italian, so that it's likely some Italian expression, or could just be an over-zealous translator over-translating "Amen" (which basically means the same thing, so be it).  Or it could even be a translation of "Fiat" (echoing Our Lady's "Fiat").  Masons also use "Amen", so now if someone uses "Amen" he's a suspected Mason?

    Still not a single convincing explanation for what "harm" +Vigano is doing or what their purpose might be to roll out a +Vigano.  Really, the biggest effect he's had is to bring some conservative Novus Ordo types to the right, people who formerly were afraid of criticizing Vatican II or Bergoglio.  He's swung to the right of the neo-SSPX.  He's not "converting" any sedevacantists or Traditional Catholics, nor ordaining dubious priests.  He hasn't set up some kind of rival seminary.  He hasn't even gone after sedevacantists.  If I had see him writing some attack against sedevacantists, I might even find the assertion plausible that he was being set up as some kind of "gatekeeper".  But, if anything, a lot of what he rights could be considered a "gateway drug" to sedevacantism.  He regulalry refers to a Bergoglian sect (vs. the Catholic Church), and has made similar comments about the entire Conciliar Church before Vatican II.  I have not seen a stronger or more articulate condemnation of Vatican II and the NOM from Archbishop Lefebvre.

    I have the same issue with those who claim that +Lefebvre was "controlled opposition".  Nonsense.  Had +Lefebvre not been around, the Traditional movement wouldn't be 1% of its current size.  So what did he accomplish for the opposition?


    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #20 on: January 10, 2023, 07:09:41 AM »
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  • This phrase simply means "Amen", or could also be a traslation of "Deus vult", and people have to recall that +Vigano is Italian, so that it's likely some Italian expression, or could just be an over-zealous translator over-translating "Amen" (which basically means the same thing, so be it).  Or it could even be a translation of "Fiat" (echoing Our Lady's "Fiat").  Masons also use "Amen", so now if someone uses "Amen" he's a suspected Mason?

    Still not a single convincing explanation for what "harm" +Vigano is doing or what their purpose might be to roll out a +Vigano.  Really, the biggest effect he's had is to bring some conservative Novus Ordo types to the right, people who formerly were afraid of criticizing Vatican II or Bergoglio.  He's swung to the right of the neo-SSPX.  He's not "converting" any sedevacantists or Traditional Catholics, nor ordaining dubious priests.  He hasn't set up some kind of rival seminary.  He hasn't even gone after sedevacantists.  If I had see him writing some attack against sedevacantists, I might even find the assertion plausible that he was being set up as some kind of "gatekeeper".  But, if anything, a lot of what he rights could be considered a "gateway drug" to sedevacantism.  He regulalry refers to a Bergoglian sect (vs. the Catholic Church), and has made similar comments about the entire Conciliar Church before Vatican II.  I have not seen a stronger or more articulate condemnation of Vatican II and the NOM from Archbishop Lefebvre.

    I have the same issue with those who claim that +Lefebvre was "controlled opposition".  Nonsense.  Had +Lefebvre not been around, the Traditional movement wouldn't be 1% of its current size.  So what did he accomplish for the opposition?

    I'm not asking about what the words might mean or could mean.

    I was just wondering if this was a typical way for a bishop to end a communication. I'm referring to the EXACT words used in the OP of this thread. I don't recall ever seeing it used by +ABL, for example. It doesn't mean that I think +Vigano is controlled opposition. So far, my question has not been answered. So I assume that it's not a typical way to end a communication. That's fine.

    BTW, Archbishop Lefebvre wrote an 84-page book on a refutation of the Vll Council. It's called, "I Accuse the Council."
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #21 on: January 11, 2023, 06:07:38 PM »
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  • I knew I had heard the phrase before so I Googled it.

    Try it.

    "So it may be"

    It pulls up dozens of Freemason sites claiming that this is the literal meaning of their special phrase they use

    in closing or when signing off.

    No Catholic sites or references come up.

    It even pulls up references from Wiccan sites and Crowley references.



    Considering the 100's of phrases Catholics use when signing off including

    Saint mottos
    Ejaculatory/aspiration prayers
    One of the many titles of Our Lord and Our Lady with "pray for us"
    Short verses from Sacred Scripture

    with so much to choose from, why use a phrase that members of the Brotherhood worldwide recognize as

    uniquely their own?



    It's similar to what I wrote in another thread:




    Why would Vigano reference Heliocentrism which the Church condemned?  (Cassini has done thorough research on this--see his threads for more)

    Why would Vigano use such a loaded term as Sol Invictus?

    Freemasons and those who practice Kabbalah

    worship the sun god

    Sol Invictus.

    Luciferians celebrate Sol Invictus Day.

    Freemasons even name lodges after him:






    Grand Lodge of Royal Art Study

    @mlsarGrandLodge

    Grand Lodge: the bilingual lodge Sol Invictus, No 13 has two new members.
    #Freemasons #FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday #FreemasonFriday #Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ #freemasons #freemason #masoniclodges #masonic #masons #scottishrite #francmasoneria #masoneria






    https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506

    And wish each other "Happy Sol Invictus Day"



    THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST
    nebula.wsimg.com
    In Luciferian circles,. Lucifer is the Sol Invictus, in direct competition to the Son of GOD, Jesus. Christ. ~The Church Age. BABYLONIA. MEDO-PERSIA. GRECIA.


    Wishing Lucifer/Sol Invictus a happy Birthday on this ... - Reddit
    Dec 21, 2021 — The world has been covered in darkness but starting today, we will see the return of Sol Invictus, Lucifer, the Bringer of Light, ...
    How to celebrate Sol Invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit
    Oct 31, 2021
    Sol invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit
    Nov 30, 2020
    Lucifer and Sol Invictus : r/LuciferianWitchcraft - Reddit
    Nov 27, 2019
    Happy Sol Invictus! : r/Satan - Reddit
    Dec 23, 2021
    More results from www.reddit.com



    https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/msgr-vigano's-shotgun-blast/




    There are so many beautiful Catholic titles for Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Why use a term Freemasons, Rosicrucians, Luciferians and Satanists worldwide recognize as their own?

    Practitioners of the occult see the Sol Invictus as Christ:






    https://pixels.com/featured/2-sol-invictus-mysteries-of-the-christos-daniel-gautier.html

    They are into Mithrayic mysteries:

    https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-digest-mithraic-mysteries


    I couldn't find any saints or popes who refer to Jesus as the Sol Invictus.


    I don't know why Vigano says these things.  I don't know his motivations.  Perhaps it's just a coincidence?

    Whatever his motivations may be, we certainly don't need this kind of ambiguity.



    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #22 on: January 11, 2023, 08:09:12 PM »
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  • What do Freemasons say after prayer?

    "So mote it be" is a ritual phrase used by the Freemasons, in Rosicrucianism, and more recently by Neopagans, meaning "so may it be", "so it is required", or "so must it be", and may be said after the person giving the prayer says 'Amen'.



    BINGO!!!

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #23 on: January 11, 2023, 08:18:53 PM »
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  • gαy.

    Sean's not gαy....    is he ? :popcorn:


    Anyway, listen Sean, we want to thank you for posting all the Vigano stuff, cause we're too busy to stay on top of it.

    But you give us such a good sources of information to dissect and examine.

    I don't care if they say you be gαy... you da man Sean Johnson, who adds vitality to the SSPX Resistance show.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #24 on: January 11, 2023, 08:27:33 PM »
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  • Miser, you are right about this.  Free masonry is the biggest problem. 

    Fɾҽe. Masonry is satanic head games. There will never be any justice either because they all cover up crimes for one another. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #25 on: January 11, 2023, 09:07:30 PM »
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  • Sean's not gαy....    is he ? :popcorn:


    Anyway, listen Sean, we want to thank you for posting all the Vigano stuff, cause we're too busy to stay on top of it.

    But you give us such a good sources of information to dissect and examine.

    I don't care if they say you be gαy... you da man Sean Johnson, who adds vitality to the SSPX Resistance show.


    gαy.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #26 on: January 11, 2023, 10:47:32 PM »
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  • But you give us such a good sources of information to dissect and examine.

    Dissect?  Examine?  There isn't anything even approaching a rational thought in most of your "analyses".

    Offline Confiteor Deo

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #27 on: January 12, 2023, 04:10:20 AM »
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  • The italian term for So May it Be is "E Cosi Sia" as you can see at in the Italian version of the Epiphany sermon 

    https://www.brigataperladifesadellovvio.com/blog/vidimus-stellam-ejus-in-oriente-omelia-dell-arcivescovo-carlo-maria-vigano-nell-epifania-di-nostro-signore-gesu-cristo

    A search for the terms "E Cosi Sia" massoneria turned this up. 

    http://www.heredom1224.it/la-libera-muratoria/i-doveri-di-un-libero-muratore-1723.html

    E Cosi Sia is at the bottom of this masonic text. 

    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #28 on: January 12, 2023, 07:24:02 AM »
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  • The italian term for So May it Be is "E Cosi Sia" as you can see at in the Italian version of the Epiphany sermon

    https://www.brigataperladifesadellovvio.com/blog/vidimus-stellam-ejus-in-oriente-omelia-dell-arcivescovo-carlo-maria-vigano-nell-epifania-di-nostro-signore-gesu-cristo

    A search for the terms "E Cosi Sia" massoneria turned this up.

    http://www.heredom1224.it/la-libera-muratoria/i-doveri-di-un-libero-muratore-1723.html

    E Cosi Sia is at the bottom of this masonic text.
    Interesting.  Has Vigano always signed his writings this way? Is this relatively new for him?  I don't think anyone pointed this out before this.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano Epiphany Sermon
    « Reply #29 on: January 12, 2023, 08:34:03 AM »
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  • Why would Vigano reference Heliocentrism which the Church condemned?  (Cassini has done thorough research on this--see his threads for more)

    Why would Vigano use such a loaded term as Sol Invictus?

    Freemasons and those who practice Kabbalah

    worship the sun god

    Sol Invictus.

    Luciferians celebrate Sol Invictus Day.

    Freemasons even name lodges after him:






    Grand Lodge of Royal Art Study

    @mlsarGrandLodge

    Grand Lodge: the bilingual lodge Sol Invictus, No 13 has two new members.
    #Freemasons #FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday #FreemasonFriday #Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ #freemasons #freemason #masoniclodges #masonic #masons #scottishrite #francmasoneria #masoneria






    https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506

    And wish each other "Happy Sol Invictus Day"



    THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST
    nebula.wsimg.com
    In Luciferian circles,. Lucifer is the Sol Invictus, in direct competition to the Son of GOD, Jesus. Christ. ~The Church Age. BABYLONIA. MEDO-PERSIA. GRECIA.


    Wishing Lucifer/Sol Invictus a happy Birthday on this ... - Reddit
    Dec 21, 2021 — The world has been covered in darkness but starting today, we will see the return of Sol Invictus, Lucifer, the Bringer of Light, ...
    How to celebrate Sol Invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit
    Oct 31, 2021
    Sol invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit
    Nov 30, 2020
    Lucifer and Sol Invictus : r/LuciferianWitchcraft - Reddit
    Nov 27, 2019
    Happy Sol Invictus! : r/Satan - Reddit
    Dec 23, 2021
    More results from www.reddit.com



    https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/msgr-vigano's-shotgun-blast/




    There are so many beautiful Catholic titles for Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Why use a term Freemasons, Rosicrucians, Luciferians and Satanists worldwide recognize as their own?

    Practitioners of the occult see the Sol Invictus as Christ:






    https://pixels.com/featured/2-sol-invictus-mysteries-of-the-christos-daniel-gautier.html

    They are into Mithrayic mysteries:

    https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-digest-mithraic-mysteries


    I couldn't find any saints or popes who refer to Jesus as the Sol Invictus.


    I don't know why Vigano says these things.  I don't know his motivations.  Perhaps it's just a coincidence?

    Whatever his motivations may be, we certainly don't need this kind of ambiguity.

    It is quite strange that +Vigano would use the words...."the unconquered sun," to describe Our Lord. I tried to find (google search) any traditional Catholic use of this, and came up with nothing. But maybe someone else can come up with a verifiable Catholic interpretation. 

    In the link you posted, +Vigano said this..."We must see in the sun, the unconquered sun, Our lord Jesus Christ, center of the cosmos created by him." 

    For those who are interested, this quote of +Vigano is located in the 10th paragraph down in the article. The quote is associated with the miracle of the sun at Fatima:

     Msgr. Vigano's Shotgun Blast - page 1 - Fighting Errors in the Modern World - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29