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Author Topic: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?  (Read 11618 times)

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Offline Angelus

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Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
« Reply #165 on: August 25, 2023, 12:25:55 PM »
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  • Talk about revisionist history.  Were you even alive in 1986?

    I stated that the sin of "communicatio in sacris" (which was the "sin of scandal" at Assisi, according to Lefebvre) cannot be interpreted, by itself, as an act of "defection from the Church." Those concepts have definitions in moral theology and Canon Law. 

    "Defection from the Church" can take only three forms: apostasy, heresy or schism. If the act of defection is formal, then the person is no longer Catholic.

    "Communicatio in sacris" can take a multitude of forms. By itself, that sin, even when formal, does not separate a Catholic from the Church. It can be a grave matter or light matter. It can be formal or material participation. And it can be dispensed by the proper authority for a valid reason.

    If you think otherwise, please show evidence to back up your claim. You seem to imply that JPII "defected from the Church" at Assisi. Is that what you are saying, Pax?

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #166 on: August 25, 2023, 12:29:07 PM »
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  • What is he saving us from? Most modern Catholics are already led astray, they think graves sins are no big deal....

    He will claim that he is saving us from these things:

    1. Terrorism, war and hatred related to religious differences. See Fratelli Tutti.

    2. The destruction of "our common home." See Laudato Si.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #167 on: August 25, 2023, 01:22:03 PM »
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  • He will claim that he is saving us from these things:

    1. Terrorism, war and hatred related to religious differences. See Fratelli Tutti.

    2. The destruction of "our common home." See Laudato Si.

    When is pope Francis going to claim that he is saving us from these things? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #168 on: August 25, 2023, 01:27:40 PM »
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  • When is pope Francis going to claim that he is saving us from these things?

    Meg, I specifically referenced Bergoglio's "encyclicals" on those matters, Fratelli Tutti and Laudato Si. Have you read them?

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #169 on: August 25, 2023, 01:32:38 PM »
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  • Meg, I specifically referenced Bergoglio's "encyclicals" on those matters, Fratelli Tutti and Laudato Si. Have you read them?

    I have read them.

    So when is Francis going to claim that only HE [Francis] can save us from these things, as you have stated?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #170 on: August 25, 2023, 01:59:39 PM »
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  • I have read them.

    So when is Francis going to claim that only HE [Francis] can save us from these things, as you have stated?

    Meg, Bergoglio's counterfeit theology is explained in those docuмents. As all things Satan, his conception is inverted. We must save ourselves, he says.

    He provides an analysis of the problems and a description of the solutions. His "solutions," and only his solutions, will save us. But we must put his instructions into action.

    If we don't follow his recommendations, "our common home" (the earth) and "the whole of humanity" (society) we be destroyed.

    Just as Jesus explained that we must "repent and believe the Gospel" (Mark 1:15) in order to be saved by God. Bergoglio says that we must care for the planet and accompany our neighbor in order to save ourselves.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #171 on: August 25, 2023, 02:02:09 PM »
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  • Meg, Bergoglio's counterfeit theology is explained in those docuмents. As all things Satan, his conception is inverted. We must save ourselves, he says.

    He provides an analysis of the problems and a description of the solutions. His "solutions," and only his solutions, will save us. But we must put his instructions into action.

    If we don't follow his recommendations, "our common home" (the earth) and "the whole of humanity" (society) we be destroyed.

    Just as Jesus explained that we must "repent and believe the Gospel" (Mark 1:15) in order to be saved by God. Bergoglio says that we must care for the planet and accompany our neighbor in order to save ourselves.

    Okay, so how many Catholics are clamoring after Francis' claim that only his solutions can save us? I mean, really?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #172 on: August 25, 2023, 02:10:30 PM »
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  • Okay, so how many Catholics are clamoring after Francis' claim that only his solutions can save us? I mean, really?

    That specific question has not been asked, as far as I know. But a good proxy is looking at how many Catholics have a favorable opinion of Bergoglio:


    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/06/25/americans-including-catholics-continue-to-have-favorable-views-of-pope-francis/





    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #173 on: August 25, 2023, 02:13:31 PM »
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  • That specific question has not been asked, as far as I know. But a good proxy is looking at how many Catholics have a favorable opinion of Bergoglio:


    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/06/25/americans-including-catholics-continue-to-have-favorable-views-of-pope-francis/





    Even the Novus Ordo Catholics aren't stupid enough to pay attention to Francis' claim that only his solutions to the 'environment' can save us.

    For an Antichrist [your claim], Francis seems rather inept.

    Modernist Popes do make strange claims. It's nothing new. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #174 on: August 25, 2023, 02:22:44 PM »
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  • Even the Novus Ordo Catholics aren't stupid enough to pay attention to Francis' claim that only his solutions to the 'environment' can save us.

    For an Antichrist [your claim], Francis seems rather inept.

    Modernist Popes do make strange claims. It's nothing new.

    A majority of US Catholics think (as of earlier this year) that "Climate Change" is a serious problem. This number will grow as "the-powers-that-be" continue to manipulate the weather patterns using HAARP technology.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/09/the-pope-is-concerned-about-climate-change-how-do-u-s-catholics-feel-about-it/


    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #175 on: August 25, 2023, 02:35:39 PM »
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  • A majority of US Catholics think (as of earlier this year) that "Climate Change" is a serious problem. This number will grow as "the-powers-that-be" continue to manipulate the weather patterns using HAARP technology.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/09/the-pope-is-concerned-about-climate-change-how-do-u-s-catholics-feel-about-it/



    57% of those Catholics who participated in the survey say that climate change is a serious problem. That's only a slight majority. And there's nothing to indicate that they believe that only Francis' solutions will save us. The mainstream media is mainly responsible for causing climate change fear, since it's frequently mentioned in the mainstream news.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #176 on: August 25, 2023, 02:53:20 PM »
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  • 57% of those Catholics who participated in the survey say that climate change is a serious problem. That's only a slight majority. And there's nothing to indicate that they believe that only Francis' solutions will save us. The mainstream media is mainly responsible for causing climate change fear, since it's frequently mentioned in the mainstream news.

    "Francis" and the mainstream media are one, Meg. 

    Covid proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that when "the Church," and the gubmint, and the media are all singing the same tune, people will go so far as to inject a poison into their bodies to prevent a cold.

    Climate change is a much smaller sell. All they need to do is provide some examples (like maybe wildfires?) and talk about it non-stop on "the news." And then people will finally realize that they need to listen to good old, "Pope Francis" after all. A huge majority of people will VOLUNTARILY sign up to "save the earth." After all, they are doing it, sacrificing themselves, "for the kids," for "the future of humanity."

    Just you watch, Meg.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano can Prove Sede Vacante?
    « Reply #177 on: August 25, 2023, 03:09:52 PM »
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  • "Francis" and the mainstream media are one, Meg.

    Covid proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that when "the Church," and the gubmint, and the media are all singing the same tune, people will go so far as to inject a poison into their bodies to prevent a cold.

    Climate change is a much smaller sell. All they need to do is provide some examples (like maybe wildfires?) and talk about it non-stop on "the news." And then people will finally realize that they need to listen to good old, "Pope Francis" after all. A huge majority of people will VOLUNTARILY sign up to "save the earth." After all, they are doing it, sacrificing themselves, "for the kids," for "the future of humanity."

    Just you watch, Meg.

    I'll watch and wait.

    But I think it's unlikely that the world is waiting with baited breath for Francis to make a profound announcement about the environment which will cause them to worship him. I just don't see it happening. Catholics are too independent for that, even the Novus Ordo folks. It's not like they take religion seriously.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29