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Author Topic: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism  (Read 10339 times)

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Re: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2021, 08:57:07 AM »
Why do you believe the SSPX would be so much more likely to continue to accept Francis than all the others?
Because only Francis can give them a deal, while backing Vigano imperils that hope.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2021, 08:59:27 AM »
Why do you believe the SSPX would be so much more likely to continue to accept Francis than all the others?

As Sean noted, we have Resistance, Indult types, and even sedevacantists ... pretty much every flavor of Traditional Catholic ... with the exception of the SSPX.  I believe that the SSPX holds most closely the position of +Schneider, that Vatican II just needs a handful of corrections.  +Fellay said it was 95% good.  So to get behind +Vigano would be to repudiate that entirely and basically admit that the Resistance is right, something that they'll never do.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2021, 08:59:59 AM »
Because only Francis can give them a deal, while backing Vigano imperils that hope.

That too.

Re: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2021, 09:34:29 AM »
As Sean noted, we have Resistance, Indult types, and even sedevacantists ... pretty much every flavor of Traditional Catholic ... with the exception of the SSPX.  I believe that the SSPX holds most closely the position of +Schneider, that Vatican II just needs a handful of corrections.  +Fellay said it was 95% good.  So to get behind +Vigano would be to repudiate that entirely and basically admit that the Resistance is right, something that they'll never do.
But wouldn't the Indult also hold this by definition? The same position as Schneider?
TBH I might be the odd man out here, but I support both Schneider and Vigano personally.  I try not to be a perfectionist about these things when it comes to the few bishops who are actually trying, even if they may be wrong. I also won't pretend to know with 100% certainty who exactly is right on the nuanced and detailed theological questions.
What I do know though, with absolute certainty, is that that which is being sold by Francis  and the vast majority of the hierarchy is not right

Re: +Vigano Arrives at Integral Traditionalism
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2021, 09:40:59 AM »
But wouldn't the Indult also hold this by definition? The same position as Schneider?
TBH I might be the odd man out here, but I support both Schneider and Vigano personally.  I try not to be a perfectionist about these things when it comes to the few bishops who are actually trying, even if they may be wrong. I also won't pretend to know with 100% certainty who exactly is right on the nuanced and detailed theological questions.
What I do know though, with absolute certainty, is that that which is being sold by Francis  and the vast majority of the hierarchy is not right

Schneider says V2 needs to be tweaked and therefore it can be saved.

Vigano says it is incompatible with the preconciliar magisterium, and needs to be jettisoned in toto.

So to back both on V2 would be schizophrenic, since they hold mutually exclusive and contradictory positions.

As regards the indult position, therefore, in such measure as the likes of Matt, Moynihan, Marshall, McCall, et al back Vigano, they necessarily oppose the position of Schneider.

Which is another way of saying that which has already been said:

Vigano is like a tugboat dragging the indult world into a more substantial and doctrinal traditionalism (while waiving to the SSPX ship as it passes, heading in the other direction).