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"To those who remind me that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre never went so far as to question the legitimacy of the Roman Pontiff, while acknowledging the heresy and even the apostasy of the conciliar Popes – as when he exclaimed: 'Rome has lost the Faith! Rome is in apostasy!' – I remind them that in the last fifty years the situation has dramatically worsened and that in all probability this great Pastor today would act with equal firmness, publicly repeating what he said then only to his clerics: 'In this pastoral council, the spirit of error and lies has been able to work at ease, planting time-bombs everywhere that will blow up institutions in due course' (Principes et directives, 1977). And again: 'He who is seated on the Throne of Peter participates in the worship of false gods. What conclusion should we draw, perhaps in a few months’ time, in the face of these repeated acts of communication with false cults? I don’t know. I wonder. But it is possible that we will find ourselves forced to believe that the Pope is not Pope. Because at first sight it seems to me – I do not yet want to say it in a solemn and public way – that it is impossible for someone who is a heretic to be publicly and formally Pope' (March 30, 1986)."

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This is certainly interesting (I was well aware of this quote, BTW. I've read pretty much all the Archbishop's writings).
But one might argue that if God wanted the SSPX, the majority of Traditionalists, to become Sede, why did He take away the Archbishop from among us, before +ABL could reach that conclusion logically and with good reason? It would seem he was *so close*.

And furthermore, not one, NOT EVEN ONE of the 4 bishops +ABL so providentially consecrated has led their flocks towards sedevacantist pastures. Not even +Williamson, the faithful one of the 4, and +ABL's "first pick" of candidates to be consecrated. (Remember, for a while +ABL was negotiating with Rome for one bishop. Well, guess who he had picked?)

It's almost as if God doesn't want us to be sedevacantist for some reason. What that reason is, I have no idea. But I find that quite interesting as well.

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This is certainly interesting (I was well aware of this quote, BTW. I've read pretty much all the Archbishop's writings).
But one might argue that if God wanted the SSPX, the majority of Traditionalists, to become Sede, why did He take away the Archbishop from among us, before +ABL could reach that conclusion logically and with good reason? It would seem he was *so close*.

And furthermore, not one, NOT EVEN ONE of the 4 bishops +ABL so providentially consecrated has led their flocks towards sedevacantist pastures. Not even +Williamson, the faithful one of the 4, and +ABL's "first pick" of candidates to be consecrated. (Remember, for a while +ABL was negotiating with Rome for one bishop. Well, guess who he had picked?)

It's almost as if God doesn't want us to be sedevacantist for some reason. What that reason is, I have no idea. But I find that quite interesting as well.

LOL. Thinking God gave you a replacement hierarchy which should lead you to Catholic truth while at the same time acknowledging that those "God's chosen" prelates were unfaithful.

#1 reason why people don't become sedevacantist is their inordinate trust in MAN.

It’s funny that you bring up Bishop De Castro Mayer. It was reported, at the time of the consecrations of the four bishops, that Bishop De Castro Mayer was telling people that we have no pope. You shouldn’t keep living in your unorthodox fantasy world of the pope being just a figurehead and of little importance to the Church.

The reporter was probably sede trying to lip read from 100 yards away.
By the way are you propagating the new attack from the sedes "Archbishop Lefebvre offered the NO mass for a year" heard that from a sedeprivationist, my guess they must have got that from a totalist in CMRI.

Is this a new record?

The worst reputation, in the shortest time, with just a single post?

If you take away the sede votes it'll be +1/0

If you take away the sede votes it'll be +1/0

And yet Vigano isn't a "sede".  Are you sure a number of those downvotes weren't from the non-sedes who are 100% on the Vigano train?

[And for the record, I am sede and did not down thumb you on either of your posts].

You are one of the reasonable sedevacantists here, 2V. I appreciate that, even if I may not agree with everything you say.

As far as Vigano being a sedevacantist, maybe he isn't a sedevacantist, since he wasn't said outright that he is, but he does believe that Bergolio isn't the Pope, and that the Chair is empty. So I dunno.

To me, a sedevacantist is someone who believes all of the Vatican II papal claimants are false.  Vigano is a Bennyvacantist/an anti-Bergoglian at best.  I think that most sedes would agree with that.  CatholicKnight, etal are not sedes; they're just anti-Bergoglians.

PS.  Thanks for the kind words. I'm sure it's not always the case though. I certainly have my moments!

Don't we all have our moments? I do too!

Thanks for the explanation about the Pope. It seems that most sedevacantists would not accept Vigano as such, but only that he is an anti-Bergolian. That makes sense. 

Just putting it out there, and I am going to flub up something, so bear with me.

On one side are those who believe that God allowed this Crisis and we deserve the Pope's we get, so we stay true to pre V2 and continue out of habit the way we are supposed to practice our faith (most R&R).  The people who disagree, feel that the Church can not lead the faithful this far into error (sedevacantism)

Both are trying to protect the indefectibility of the Church, R&R focuses on the Apostolic hierarchy, and sedevacantism focuses on never becoming corrupt in faith or morals.

We as humans are confused.  We are trying our best, and we need clergy debating (and maybe some intellectual laity, who don't get emotionally attached to their position) discussing these matters, but it should never have turned into using the laity against each other, it shouldn't have broken families up, but this is where we are and we need to show kindness to each other.  I will keep saying this until God allows the problem to be fixed.  We must remember that we have control over ourselves, the devil can't make you do anything and God won't make you do anything.   How we handle ourselves is how God is going to judge us all.