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Author Topic: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle  (Read 2864 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2023, 12:14:56 PM »
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  • You are the con-man here, not Vigano.

    You were once asked to name one single priest on planet earth that you trust, and who's position you 100% endorse.

    You could not come up with one.

    For all we know, you are a non-Catholic Jєω infiltrator assigned to discredit Vigano.

    Yeah, okay.
    I’m a Jєω and you’re an ex-seminarian queer.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #31 on: February 21, 2023, 12:53:09 PM »
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  • Perhaps this individual has not read St. Augustine and doesn't see the analogy.  I mentioned the same concerns to a family priest who explained similarly to how you did so I chalk it up to my own personal ignorance rather than shady dealings on the part of the archbishop.  But I'm still cautious because I learned my lesson being one of the "early adopters" of Pfeifferism.  I won't make that mistake again.

    I get that not everyone is acquainted with all of what St. Augustine wrote.  Problem is that I've explained it to this poster multiple time already, including once with relevant citations.  But even if someone doesn't know, there's a such a thing as making an allowance, prior to condemning someone, for not having all the facts.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #32 on: February 21, 2023, 12:54:59 PM »
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  • Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #33 on: February 21, 2023, 12:59:22 PM »
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  • Shouldn't he be telling people things more along the lines of, "You people of the world are all on the road to tell and you will be tormented forever after your death if you don't repent of your sins and embrace the Catholic religion as it was taught and practiced before the 1960s"? And then tell people what those teachings are in particular?

    Instead of commenting on the words of a TV news anchor, American politicians, people in Davos, environmentalism, and similar things. People need the gospel, not politics.

    Re-read my post about prudence.  Depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how effective your words might be.  I'm not required to walk around all day telling everyone I meet that they're "on the road to hell and will be tormented forever."  They'd honestly just think I was insane if I tried it, and some of this nonsense verges upon insanity.  How many people do you tell that to each day?  Probably 0 on average.

    Maybe you could tell some of your SV priest buddies to stop telling non-Catholics and infidels that they can be saved.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #34 on: February 22, 2023, 12:44:47 AM »
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  • Shouldn't he be telling people things more along the lines of, "You people of the world are all on the road to tell and you will be tormented forever after your death if you don't repent of your sins and embrace the Catholic religion as it was taught and practiced before the 1960s"? And then tell people what those teachings are in particular?

    Instead of commenting on the words of a TV news anchor, American politicians, people in Davos, environmentalism, and similar things. People need the gospel, not politics.
    Interesting question, Yeti.
    No doubt that is what all men need to understand.
    But knocking on someone's front door and telling them they are on the road to Hell doesn't always achieve the desired goal.
    All the souls living today are all so different, in their temperaments, their upbringing, their education, their understanding of why they exist...
    Souls come to God in different ways. There are some, no doubt, who are converted through understanding the Jєωιѕн question, others will have the scales fall from their eyes seeing the diabolical influences working in the Church and politics today.
    Truth matters in all facets of life, and proclaiming it as Archbishop Vigano does can only help lead souls to Him Who is Truth itself.
    I think if you study his voluminous writings you will find there is no shortage of warnings along the lines you suggest.



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #35 on: February 22, 2023, 07:57:29 AM »
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  • “You are on the Road to Hell.” – anonymous

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #36 on: February 22, 2023, 08:31:09 AM »
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  • Shouldn't he be telling people things more along the lines of, "You people of the world are all on the road to tell and you will be tormented forever after your death if you don't repent of your sins and embrace the Catholic religion as it was taught and practiced before the 1960s"? And then tell people what those teachings are in particular?

    Instead of commenting on the words of a TV news anchor, American politicians, people in Davos, environmentalism, and similar things. People need the gospel, not politics.

    How do you tell people they are headed to a place either A) they don't believe in or B) since they aren't "Hitler" and didn't kill anyone they would never go to.  This is why Fr. Chazal wrote his book "Eternal Hell"...I'm reading it right now btw.  Terrifying but necessary in these times of apostasy.  

    Yes the Gospel needs to be preached, not War Room or deliverance prayer theology.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #37 on: February 22, 2023, 09:32:09 AM »
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  • How do you tell people they are headed to a place either A) they don't believe in or B) since they aren't "Hitler" and didn't kill anyone they would never go to.

    Right, that's where Prudence comes into play.  I could go around all day telling everyone I meet on the street who isn't a Catholic that they're going to hell, but they would probably just dismiss me as some insane kook, like the guys who stand on the street corner ...



    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #38 on: February 22, 2023, 09:45:16 AM »
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  • How do you tell people they are headed to a place either A) they don't believe in or B) since they aren't "Hitler" and didn't kill anyone they would never go to.  This is why Fr. Chazal wrote his book "Eternal Hell"...I'm reading it right now btw.  Terrifying but necessary in these times of apostasy. 

    Yes the Gospel needs to be preached, not War Room or deliverance prayer theology.

    +Vigano's writings are indeed a bit too heavy on War Room theology. Though he does at least try to relate the political situations to theology, but not in a way that, for instance, +ABL would do. +ABL didn't focus nearly so much on politics, but then +ABL was responsible for seminarians and the faithful who attended SSPX chapels. These times are really crazy politically. But we still have our soul to save, and that's ultimately what's most important. 

    At least +Vigano didn't sign his commentary with a masonic phrase this time. 

    Fr. Chazal's book is excellent. And it is terrifying to see why Hell is a reality. Not enough bishops or priests use their teaching authority to preach on the existence of Hell, but you're right. Most people don't believe it exists. And preaching on the subject of either the problem with Jєωιѕн elites, or the real existence of Hell is not going to go down well for someone who is in the spotlight so much these days. They are not popular subjects.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #39 on: February 22, 2023, 09:56:22 AM »
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  • +Vigano's writings are indeed a bit too heavy on War Room theology. … blah, blah, blah…

    How precisely does one get to Heaven by hiding in a closet and failing to oppose the evils that confront us?



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #40 on: February 24, 2023, 10:07:44 AM »
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  • Online Yeti

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #41 on: February 24, 2023, 02:32:29 PM »
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  • Re-read my post about prudence.  Depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how effective your words might be.  I'm not required to walk around all day telling everyone I meet that they're "on the road to hell and will be tormented forever."  They'd honestly just think I was insane if I tried it, and some of this nonsense verges upon insanity.  How many people do you tell that to each day?  Probably 0 on average.

    Maybe you could tell some of your SV priest buddies to stop telling non-Catholics and infidels that they can be saved.
    .

    Well, you're not a Catholic bishop and neither am I, so that argument isn't really relevant. But if you suppose that a Catholic bishop is obliged to tell people what they need to hear to save their souls, namely to preach the gospel of Christ (and Christ warns people about hell constantly in the gospels, by the way), then yes, that is his duty. Yes, people will dismiss him as crazy, there will always be people who reject the preaching of the gospel as crazy. That doesn't mean the Church must stop preaching it. And a bishop's main job is to preach the gospel.

    Furthermore, your idea that people would dismiss him as crazy doesn't seem very plausible to me. Given his position as a putative member of the Catholic hierarchy (whether he is or not is a question I don't want to get into now), people who consider themselves to be Catholic would be likely to listen to him as a leader of their religion. These are the people who need to be reached most of all, and who are the most likely to be open to receiving the truth.

    In any case, I don't see how it saves anyone's soul to talk about Davos or the Great Reset or the stolen election of 2020 or any of the other political events that he spends his time talking about. You don't see (true) popes writing encyclicals about things like that; they write instead about matters of doctrine and morals.

    Online Yeti

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #42 on: February 24, 2023, 02:34:16 PM »
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  • Right, that's where Prudence comes into play.  I could go around all day telling everyone I meet on the street who isn't a Catholic that they're going to hell, but they would probably just dismiss me as some insane kook, like the guys who stand on the street corner ...


    .

    The reason this guy looks crazy is not because of what he is saying! What he is saying is absolutely true. The reason is because of who he is. He is a layman with no authorization from the Church to preach.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #43 on: February 24, 2023, 11:06:16 PM »
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  • .

    …In any case, I don't see how it saves anyone's soul to talk about Davos or the Great Reset or the stolen election of 2020 or any of the other political events that he spends his time talking about. You don't see (true) popes writing encyclicals about things like that; they write instead about matters of doctrine and morals.


    Really?

    So you think the Spiritual Works of Mercy (e.g., counseling the doubtful, instructing the ignorant, admonishing the sinner, and comforting the sorrowful) are useless for the salvation of anyone's soul?

    Such works do nothing for the salvation of the one(s) doing the works or the one(s) receiving the works?

    Hmmmmm…

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: +Vigano's Greatest Epistle
    « Reply #44 on: February 25, 2023, 08:28:30 AM »
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  • If they do not want to be like fathers to us; if they do not want our good and indeed do everything to corrupt us in body and spirit, it is time to drive them out of their positions and call them to account for their betrayal, their crimes, and their scandalous lies. + Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop

    Wouldn't a first step be for Vigano to declare Bergoglio a heretic and false pope?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)