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Author Topic: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette  (Read 8611 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2023, 09:23:19 PM »
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  • Yes, logic has never been your strong point, so it does not surprise me that it would impact your assent.

    :laugh1:  Project much?  Were you asleep during Logic class at seminary?  You must have been.

    Talk about absurd contradictory illogic.  You claimed that Sister Faustina hasn't received "Church approval.".  And yet you claim that Wojtyla was a legitimate Pope.  Wojtyla canonized her, gave full approbation to "Divine Mercy", and even turned the Sunday after Easter officially into Divine Mercy Sunday.  You can't get more "Church approbation" than that.  This exposes your bad will, where you play both sides, as you see fit, and believe what you want to believe.  Wojtyla's the Pope when you want him to be and not the Pope when you don't want him to be.  Ultimately, SeanJohnson's latest whim is his rule of faith.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #16 on: June 02, 2023, 09:41:14 PM »
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  • It is interesting to me how many of the writings of the mystics/apparitionists are or were actually condemned by the Church (e.g., Mary of Agreda, Ann Catherine Emmerich, Valtorta, Melanie, Sr. Faustina, et al.), which is why I don't get too much into them, except for the ones which time has proven true (e.g., Fatima, Lourdes).

    "The Mystical City of God" was approved by five Popes.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #17 on: June 02, 2023, 10:14:39 PM »
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  • :laugh1:  Project much?  Were you asleep during Logic class at seminary?  You must have been.

    Talk about absurd contradictory illogic.  You claimed that Sister Faustina hasn't received "Church approval.".  And yet you claim that Wojtyla was a legitimate Pope.  Wojtyla canonized her, gave full approbation to "Divine Mercy", and even turned the Sunday after Easter officially into Divine Mercy Sunday.  

    Note the dliberate sede refusal to dinstinguish between the Catholic and conciliar churches.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #18 on: June 02, 2023, 10:16:26 PM »
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  • "The Mystical City of God" was approved by five Popes.

    The book was written in obedience to her confessors, burnt twice, and recommenced three times, never of her own volition.
     The book was condemned in 1681 by Innocent XI, but execution was suspended for Spain. The Sorbonne or University of Paris did the same in 1696 by 102 votes of 152 after having had it examined by 132 doctors of theology.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #19 on: June 03, 2023, 12:45:54 AM »
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  • This line discredited the entire rant as having been driven by a Conciliarist agenda.  Makes me wonder about how much of the rest is made up.
    Yes, totally agree. Someone who is so blind they cannot see the crisis of Faith in the Church, how could you trust their judgement in any matter relating to the Faith?


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #20 on: June 03, 2023, 12:53:07 AM »
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  • Michael Matt's introduction references the famous "Rome will lose the faith" part of this revelation, but wasn't that part of LaSalette placed on the Index?
    Archbishop Lefebvre made reference to it more than once, notably in his sermon during the episcopal consecration ceremony of 1988:
    Of course, you well know the apparitions of Our Lady at La Salette, where she says that Rome will lose the Faith, that there will be an "eclipse" at Rome; an eclipse, see what Our Lady means by this.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #21 on: June 03, 2023, 01:04:53 AM »
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  • Will Rome Lose the Faith? (La Salette Revisited)
    By:   By Solange Strong Hertz


    The Remnant Newspaper - Will Rome Lose the Faith? (La Salette Revisited)

    The message of La Salette was confided by the Mother of God to Mélanie Calvat, the oldest of two young seers to whom she appeared in the French Alps in 1846. Attempts to discredit both the visionary and the heavenly message have never been wanting, for although the apparition was approved by the Holy See, the Secret itself was never promoted by the ecclesiastical establishment, despite papal recommendations and many Imprimaturs.  In fact the faithful were led to believe that it had actually been placed on the Index of Forbidden Books then in canonical vigor. Mélanie was accused of being psychologically unbalanced by her Bishop, who eventually was the one to go mad and never recover his sanity. She was persecuted to such a degree in her own country that for long periods she was forced to live incognito in Italy, where she died at the age of seventy-two.

    Today the same old accusations which were leveled against her in her lifetime, which she continued to refute to her dying day, are resurging, not only from liberal sectors as before, but even from conservative champions of the traditional Mass. Her critics maintain that the text of the Secret with which we are familiar and which Mélanie first published in its entirety in 1879 under the Imprimatur of Bishop Salvatore-Luigi Zola of Lecce, Italy was her own expanded and embroidered version of our Lady’s real message, which Pius IX had requested her to submit to him in 1851. Emphasizing the difference in length between the two versions of the Secret, the short one set down in 1851 for the Pope and the longer one delivered to the public in 1879, some hold that Mélanie added to the original text information culled from contemporary apocalyptic literature then in circulation. Mélanie’s autobiographical writings, particularly those dealing with her abused childhood and her miraculous companionship with the child Jesus, are rejected as spurious by many.

    At this juncture, when so much of what our Lady prophesied in the Secret is beginning to materialize, the enemy of mankind can be expected to utilize every means of discrediting a prophecy intended to lay open his machinations before the eyes of the faithful. Whereas the arguments which proved so effective in casting doubt on the Secret’s authenticity when it was first divulged are being refurbished with a vengeance, the hard facts which demolished them then have only been reinforced by subsequent events. Most of them can be found as good as new in a 40-page brochure in defense of the Secret which was published in French in 1922, bearing the Imprimatur, dated June 6 of that year, of no less an authority than the Dominican Fr. Albert Lepidi, then Master of the Sacred Palace and Permanent Consultor to the Congregation of the Index.

    Disseminated by the St. Augustine Society under the title “The Apparition of the Most Blessed Virgin on the Mountain of La Salette,” it bears a facsimile of the Imprimatur with Fr. Lepidi’s signature, plus the following words in his own hand: Ces pages ont été écrites pour la pure vérité, “These pages have been written solely in the interests of truth.” The first half of the brochure contains Mélanie’s own account of the apparition, together with the full text of the Secret, which she set in writing in Castellamare, Italy on the feast of our Lady’s Presentation, November 21, 1878 and which received an Imprimatur the following year from the local Ordinary, Bishop Zola. The second half is devoted to contemporary testimonials in defense of the Secret, the whole closing with an ecclesiastically approved Prayer to the Most Blessed Trinity for the canonization of Mélanie Calvat.

    Seven letters from Bishop Zola to various dignitaries figure among the contents. Privileged to authorize the first publication of the Secret in its entirety with his Imprimatur, he never wavered in his convictions concerning La Salette, nor in his veneration for its messenger. Not only have his letters lost nothing of their force with passing time, but hindsight considerably sharpens their focus. A sampling of the longest and most informative one are offered here in translation. (see website) The Bishop wrote it May 24, 1880 in reply to questions addressed to him by Fr. Isidore Roubaud, one of the few French priests who dared undertake Mélanie’s defense in the face of the dogged opposition mounted by Masonically influenced bishops like Mgr. Ginoulhiac of Grenoble, successor to the saintly Mgr. Bruillard, in whose diocese the apparition had taken place and had been originally approved.

    Bishop Zola writes, “I deeply deplore France’s current opposition to the heavenly Message of La Salette. We are already on the eve of the terrible chastisements with which the Mother of God threatened us because of our prevarications, and yet we prefer to reject the warnings of so tender and merciful a Mother rather than profit from her lessons, the only act on our part which could diminish the intensity of the afflictions divine wrath has in store for us. In this I recognize the work of our ancient enemy, who has the greatest interest in exploiting every means, especially among God’s ministers, ut videntes non videant et intelligentes non intelligant....

    “Only on July 3, 1851 did Melanie herself put her Secret in writing for the first time, at the Providence convent in Corenc, by order of Mgr. de Bruillard, Bishop of Grenoble, in the presence of Mr. Dausse, head of the Department of Civil Engineering, and Mr. Taxis, Canon of Grenoble Cathedral. Mélanie filled three large pages at one sitting, without saying anything or asking any questions.” [In the account of the incident given by Bishop William Ullathorne of Birmingham, England in The Holy Mountain of La Salette in 1854, Mélanie asked the meaning of the words infallibly and Antichrist, and how to spell the latter, but there are no other discrepancies.] “She signed without re-reading, folded her Secret and put it in an envelope. She addressed it thus: ‘To His Holiness Pius IX, in Rome.’

    “The next day, the fourth of July, the Secret is personally rewritten by Mélanie at the Bishop’s palace in Grenoble, with the purpose of drawing a clear distinction between the dates of two events which are not supposed to happen at the same time. Having put in only one date the first time, Mélanie was afraid that the Pope might not understand correctly on that account, and some equivocation might result. On July 18, Mr. Gérin, Curate of the Cathedral of Grenoble, and Mr. Rousselot, Honorary Vicar General, both saintly priests advanced in years and highly respected in every regard, delivered to His Holiness Pius IX the letters of the Bishop of Grenoble and those of Maximin [the other little seer] and Mélanie, containing their Secrets.

    “Melanie did not send His Holiness Pius IX all of the Secret which she recently published, but only what the Blessed Virgin had inspired her to write at the time from that important docuмent, along with many things relevant to Pius IX personally. Nevertheless, on the basis of information which I guarantee you is very accurate I know that the reproaches addressed to the clergy and religious communities were identical to those contained in that part of the Secret given to His Holiness Pius IX. Later the blessed shepherdess of La Salette imparted other parts of the Secret to different people when she felt the proper time had arrived to disclose them. But the Secret in its entirety was made public only in the little work written by Mélanie herself and printed at Lecce in 1879 at the request and expense of a pious person.

    “In 1860 one of Mélanie’s directors obtained a manuscript of the Secret at Marseille. It was transmitted to me in 1869, when by order of Mgr. Petagna, Bishop of Castellamare di Stabia, I was Mélanie’s spiritual director. On January 30 Mélanie put this same docuмent into the hands of the Abbé Felician Bliard, with a declaration of its authenticity and her signature, but with certain small blank spaces, indicated by dots and etc...., to replace those parts of the Secret which she felt she should not reveal yet. The part about priests and religious, almost in its entirety, was there in its proper place. The Abbé Bliard sent a certified copy from Nice on February 24, 1870 to Fr. Semennenko, Consultor of the Index at Rome and Superior of the Polish seminary. He did the same for several Church dignitaries. Nevertheless the Secret of the shepherdess of La Salette had already been spread everywhere in manuscript form, especially among religious communities and the clergy.

    “In 1873 Fr. Bliard published the docuмent just as he had received it from Mélanie in 1870, with his own scholarly comments, in a brochure called ‘Letters to a Friend about the Secret of the Shepherdess of La Salette’. This brochure appeared in Naples with the approbation given on April 30, 1873 by the curia of His Eminence Cardinal Sixtus Riario Sforza, Archbishop of Naples. I myself can certify the authenticity of this approbation, as well as the authenticity of the letter which I sent to Abbé Bliard dated May 1, 1873, a letter which was printed on the first page of the said brochure after my promotion to the See of Ugento.

    “On receiving Mélanie’s Secret from Mr. Bliard, Mr. C.R. Girard, the learned director of La Terre Sainte in Grenoble, published it early in 1872 in his book called The Secrets of La Salette and Their Import. This brochure was only the first of five very important little works which appeared later by the same author and were intended to vindicate and confirm the revelations of La Salette, as well as to defend them against the attacks of their enemies. These works by Mr. Girard were honored by the endorsement and blessing of His Holiness Pius IX and the support of many Catholic theologians and bishops. . . .

    “I will also say that during my many years as Abbot of the Canons Regular of the Lateran at Santa Maria di Piedigrotta in Naples, I had occasion in my capacity as Superior of that Order to maintain relations with very respected prelates and princes of the Roman Church. They were rather well informed in regard to Mélanie and her Secret. Almost all had received that docuмent. Well then! Every one of them without exception judged very favorably of that divine revelation and the authenticity of the Secret. I shall confine myself to mentioning among others: Mgr. Petagna, Bishop of Castellamare di Stabia, who had the good shepherdess of La Salette under his guardianship for several years; Mgr. Mariano Ricciardi, Archbishop of Sorrento; His Eminence Cardinal Guidi; His Eminence Cardinal Sixtus Riario Sforza, Archbishop of Naples. . . . These revered and saintly Pastors always spoke to me in such wise as to confirm me strongly in my belief, now become unshakeable, in the divinity of the revelations contained in the Secret of the shepherdess of La Salette. Furthermore I have it from an incontrovertible source, that our Holy Father Leo XIII also received that docuмent in its entirety.



    “I am mindful, Reverend Sir, that the Secret contains some very harsh truths where the clergy and religious communities are concerned. Such revelations are approached with sinking hearts and fearful souls. If I dared I would ask our Lady why she didn’t order them buried in eternal silence. But who are we to question her who is called the Seat of Wisdom? Our task is to draw profit from her lessons.”

    The good Bishop goes on to point out that there is considerable precedent both in Scripture and hagiography for rebuking the clergy in public, citing the Psalms, the Prophets, the Fathers of the Church and other sacred authors, not to mention revelations made to saints from St. Catherine of Siena on down to Bl. Anna-Maria Taigi. Nonetheless he warns that prophecy makes use of a language all its own, not meant to inspire contempt of those we are bound to respect. Reproofs aimed at the clergy in general must not be taken as addressed to all without exception, for “in the bosom of the Church there are always pastors and ministers outstanding for their learning and holiness,” besides the fact that “the divine Mother’s range of vision takes in the entire universe, and her chaste eye is offended by many things we can neither know nor even suspect. . .

    “As for the Secret printed in Lecce, I assure you that it is identical to the one given to me by Mélanie in 1869. In the latter she simply filled in those small omissions and reservations which, when all is said and done, hardly added or subtracted anything from the substance of the docuмent. I had my episcopal commission examine it according to the rules of the Church; and having found no reason to oppose the publication of the Secret, my Vicar General accorded his permission to print in the terms ‘NIHIL OBSTAT, IMPRIMATUR,’ to the person who desired to publish it at his own expense in accordance with his pious intentions. This approval as it appears at the end of the brochure was in fact given on November 15, 1879. The brochure was truly and entirely written by Mélanie Calvat, shepherdess of La Salette, whose surname was Matthieu. It is impossible to cast any doubts on the authenticity of this brochure.

    “Here now is what concerns Mélanie personally: This pious girl, this virtuous and privileged soul whom wicked people have tried to vilify by making her the butt of their detestably gross calumnies and proud disdain, I can attest before God is in no way deceitful, crazy, deluded, prideful or motivated by self interest. On the contrary, I had occasion to admire the virtues of her soul, as well as the qualities of her mind throughout the period of time I had her under my spiritual direction, that is to say from 1868 to 1873. After that, being no longer able to undertake her direction as a consequence of my promotion to the see of Ugento as Superior of the Canons Regular, I still continued to keep in contact with her by correspondence. To this day I can affirm that her edifying life, her virtues, her writings have deeply impressed on my heart the sentiments of respect and admiration which in all justice I must entertain in her regard.

    “In 1879 our Holy Father Leo XIII deigned to honor Mélanie with a private audience and also charged her with compiling the rules for the new Order recommended and requested by Our Lady of La Salette under the title of the Apostles of the Latter Days. In order to complete a draft of this kind, the ex-shepherdess stayed in Rome for five months at the convent of the Salesian Sisters. During this time she became better known and more highly esteemed, especially by these good nuns, who furnished favorable reports very much to the credit of the blessed shepherdess of La Salette.

    “I know from my own sources of information that when Mr. Nicolas, a lawyer from Marseille was in Rome on Holy Saturday 1880, he was commissioned by His Holiness Leo XIII to put out a brochure explaining the Secret in its entirety, so that the public might understand it properly. I feel sure these particulars will suffice to strengthen you in your conviction. I could tell you very much more, but,” concludes the Bishop of Lecce, “that would require a book, not a letter.”

    +

    The same year that Bishop Zola wrote to Fr. Roubaud, Mgr. Cortet, Bishop of Troyes, was making every effort to have the Secret put on the Index on the pretext that it “was causing trouble in France.” When his request continued to meet with refusal on the part of the Holy Office, he threatened its Secretary, Cardinal Caterini, with the withdrawal of Peter’s Pence “if something was not done in his favor.” Under duress the Cardinal ended by writing him a letter dated August 8, 1880, in which he stated that the work in question had been remitted to the Inquisitors, who found it proper to reply that “it was not pleasing to the Holy See that the said work be delivered to the public,” and expressed the desire that “wherever copies have been distributed, they be removed, insofar as possible, from the hands of the faithful. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .” (sic)

    When the authentic Latin text of the letter was published seventeen years later in Ami du Clergé, the last sentence terminated in an extended series of dots as above, testifying to a number of missing words. Eventually Fr. Roubaud learned that the dots stood for a phrase laying down the condition--“if as the Bishop affirms, the Secret was causing trouble in France.”   This qualification had been expurgated wholesale, along with the rest of the sentence, which instructed the authorities to “leave it in the hands of the clergy, so they may profit by it.”

    Bishop Cortet had been so disappointed on receiving this communication that rather than publish it in his diocese, he sent it to his friend Bishop Besson of Nîmes, who put out an adulterated version. Not only were the extenuating words left out of the prohibition but gratuitous additions were made to the effect that the Inquisitors “deem worthy of the highest praise the zeal you have shown in denouncing this work to them,” and “that the Holy See has regarded its publication with the greatest displeasure.”   Removing the copies from circulation was furthermore reported to be the “express wish” of the Holy See.

    Needless to say, this letter brought the dissemination of the Secret to a standstill in France as far as the establishment was concerned. From Italy Mélanie would write Fr. Roubaud, “Don’t worry about what the devil does by means of men; the good Lord permits it to strengthen the faith of the true believers. One of the persons I addressed in Rome belongs to the Congregation of the Index and the other to that of the Holy Office, or the Inquisition, which is the same thing. Neither one nor the other knew anything about Cardinal Caterini’s letter. That’s why they said it was a party acting independently of the Pope and even of the Congregations of the Index and the Inquisition.”

    According to the brochure, “The two people Mélanie refers to are Cardinals, one of whom was Cardinal Ferrieri. Mgr. Pennachi, Consultor to the Index, on being questioned by Mélanie, told her the same thing as the two Cardinals. It is clear from Mélanie’s letter that Cardinal Caterini, by an ordinary private letter, had falsely implicated his colleagues in the Holy Office, and even the Holy See; for which the Cardinal’s secretary, who had drafted it, apologized to Mgr. Zola, adding that his hand had been forced.” Because poor Mélanie was unable to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the letter had indeed been sent without the Pope’s knowledge, she believed herself bound to comply with its strictures to the end of her life. Privately she admitted that the letter had “poisoned her existence” by making it impossible for her to fulfill the mission confided to her by our Lady, at least in France.

    +

    After Melanie’s death in 1904 the enemies of La Salette hoped to deal the final blow to the Secret. Putting the capstone on the falsehoods and misrepresentations already in circulation, a decree was promulgated on December 21, 1915 which ordered “the faithful of all countries to abstain from treating or discussing this said question under whatsoever pretext or form, either in books, pamphlets or articles signed or anonymous, or in any other way.” Although the action is duly recorded in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis for December 31 of that year, certain irregularities were soon noted in its regard.

    To begin with, it carries signatures of no Cardinals or members of the Sacred Congregation, but only that of its notary, Luigi Castellano. There is moreover no mention of the date on which the Holy Office presumably met to vote this piece of legislation, nor any reference to its ever having been submitted to Pope Benedict XV for final approval. Although the decree forbids all discussion of the Secret and specifies penalties to be imposed on transgressors, no censure whatever is attached to the work itself, as would be expected in the circuмstances. There is not even a prohibition against possessing, reading or distributing it!

    In other words the alleged “decree” which has been brandished like a club over the heads of the faithful for over eighty years to prevent their hearing a message addressed “to all our Lady’s people,” has apparently never enjoyed the force of law. The faithful both lay and clerical are now, and have always been perfectly free, without exception, to avail themselves of the high ecclesiastical authorizations which were originally granted to the Secret by the Archbishop of Naples, Cardinal Sforza and Bishop Zola of Lecce, not to mention those of Cardinal Ferrieri and Cardinal Guidi. So what were they waiting for?

    Not only had Pope Leo XIII accepted the account of the apparition and the Secret, delivered to him personally by Mélanie on two separate occasions, but as Bishop Zola pointed out, in 1880 this same Pontiff had charged the attorney Nicolas of Marseille “to draft a brochure explaining the whole Secret so that the general public could understand it properly.” When his brochure, which has provided so much of the substance of these lines, was reprinted under Fr. Lepidi’s Imprimatur in 1922 after years of oblivion, the adversaries of La Salette were bound to react, inasmuch as any clear exposition of the facts relating to the unjust suppression of the Secret could not fail to renew public interest in it.

    An unfortunate incident played into their hands when an ill-advised partisan of the Secret, a certain Dr. Grémillon of Montpellier, took it upon himself to distribute a thousand copies of the brochure to all ranks of the clergy. Under cover of the brochure’s Imprimatur and using a pseudonym, he appended to its legitimate contents an injurious twelve-page letter dated February 2, 1923 in which, among other things, he labeled the priesthood as a whole as “sewers,” taxed St. Thomas Aquinas with “obscurantism” and wound up by declaring that the Pope should impose the Secret of La Salette on the faithful as an article of faith. The copies were expedited in wrappers proclaiming, “Big News! A voice from heaven! A message from the Blessed Virgin is declared authentic by the Vatican. A bludgeon blow to the clergy. See a letter at the end from Dr. Henry Mariavé to the Abbé Z., dean of a parish in Montpellier.”

    Reaction on the part of the Holy Office was swift. On May 10, 1923 a decree was issued “proscribing and condemning” the entire brochure, designated by the title “The Apparition of the Most Holy Virgin on the Mountain of La Salette on Saturday, September 19, 1845.” That the apparition took place in 1846 and not in 1845 would alone serve to invalidate the decree, besides the fact that for over 43 years Mélanie’s account of the happening had incurred no condemnation whatsoever from any authorized quarter. To make matters worse, the Holy Office took its fateful action in a session held on the previous day, when Fr. Lepidi was ill and unable to make an appearance, either to defend the Imprimatur he had accorded the original publication or to repudiate the unauthorized letter which had been attached to it.

    Could the brochure have suffered condemnation without Dr. Grémillon’s outrageous letter? Ultimately the responsibility lay with the reigning Pope, who was then Pius XI. As it was, he was placed in the uncomfortable position of apparently proscribing what three predecessors, Pius IX, Leo XIII and St. Pius X, had actively promoted, and what, in the case of the brochure itself, one of them had actually mandated. As the years rolled on, the wistful conclusion reached at the time by many of the bewildered faithful is being heard with increasing frequency as time goes on: “The Holy Father is a prisoner in the Vatican, at the mercy of his entourage for his information!” Be that as it may, the Secret of La Salette finally broke free of all restrictions when Paul VI abolished the Index of Forbidden Books in 1966. By then, of course, the Church had already entered the “frightful crisis” foretold by the Secret, and there was no turning back the events which began unrolling.



    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #22 on: June 03, 2023, 05:43:01 AM »
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  • These defenses of the condemned and Indexed portions of La Salette, claiming it was unjust, or the Inquisition was corrupt or mistaken, etc., put me in mind of Valtorta (of which all the same arguments are made).

    “But Lefebvre referenced La Salette” does not overcome all the condemnations provided by Yeti.

    What I suspect has happened here is that some grew attached to the condemned portions, having thought to have found in them a vindication of their position.  Then, upon discovering the portion was condemned, rationalized reasons the condemnation was invalid, unjust, corrupt, thinking that their position would be weakened if they acknowledged the condemnation (not realizing any position based on private revelation is already inherently weak).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #23 on: June 03, 2023, 05:57:44 AM »
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  • .

    Yes, it certainly was. Here is a history of the various condemnations of this text and its proponents.

    From Yeti's citation:



    Docuмents on the “Secret of La Salette”
    [Docuмent #1]
    Interventions of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition (Holy Office)
    • A)    Decree of the Holy Office of Wednesday 26 February, 1879 (CORTEVILLE, p.254)
    The Most Eminent Fathers have decreed ad mentem that it be written to the Bishop of Lecce asking him the reason why this booklet has been published, and how he allowed it. That it be ordered to him to remove the copies and to prevent their diffusion. That it be written to the Patriarch of Venice not to have the booklet published, and that he does not allow, nor get interested in the proposal that one would like to make of the Dogma of the Assumption. That the French priest who is at the little Holy Saviour be called and admonished to cease such efforts and images.
    Fr. Vinc. Leo Sallua, Chief Commissioner, Archbp. of Chalcedonia
    The same day: recounted to the Most Holy [Father]

    • B)    Decree of the Holy Office of Wednesday 10 March, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p.258)
    The Most Eminent Lords for deciding and stating [ad supersendum et ad mentem] about the Bishop of Lecce: it is in their minds to beseech the Holy Father that he be willing to give the writing that Mélanie sent to His Holiness through the Most Eminent Consolini, as this one said it to Cardinal Ferrieri, writing that contains the secret revelation she claimed to have received, in order to compare the revelation itself with the one currently published, and to examine it intrinsically and extrinsically, for seeing  whether this revelation is to be held true or not in all of its parts.
    Jacobini, As[sessor] The same day of the ferial
    The Most Holy [Father] approved. Jacobini As.

    • C)    Decree of the Holy Office of June 2, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p.260)
    The Most Eminent Lords ad mentem: the thought is to write to the Bishop of Lecce that he does not look after Mélanie and that he cut off all contact with her, and that it be done by this Supreme Congregation.
    That the Supreme Congregation of Bishops and Regulars replies to the Bishop of Castellamare, exposing to him everything that has been done in order to appease the troubles caused by the booklet of said Mélanie: let His Excellency be asked to keep watching over her and take care of her, and that he does not allow her to leave his diocese.
    That the said booklet be examined in his fullest edition.
    Jacobini As.

    • D)    Second letter from Cardinal Caterini, Secretary of the Holy Office, to Bishop Zola of Lecce, June 5, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p.261)
    Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord and Brother,
    By mandate received from the Supreme Assembly, I must relate to His Lordship that the thought of these Most Eminent General Inquisitors, fully approved by His Holiness [the Pope], is that you stop looking after Mélanie, and interrupt any relation with her.
    I hasten to let you acknowledge this as your standard and rule, whereafter I only have to wish you all the blessings of the Lord.
    From Your Lordship Rome, June 5, 1880
    With all brotherly affection,
    • Cardinal Caterini
    • E)    Notification of the Consultors and Decree of the Holy Office, Monday 26 July, and Tuesday 3 August, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p. 272-273)
    2nd Feria, July 26, 1880
    The Lords Consultors advised as follows: That it be written now to the Archbishops of the Gauls (France) and of Italia under the Holy Office’s secret ad mentem: The thought [of the Holy Office] is that the revelations of Mélanie, printed and distributed everywhere, cannot be considered authentic or doctrinally sound; that therefore, without any prejudice to the cult given to the Blessed Virgin under the title of La Salette, they [the archbishops] don’t approve of them in any way whatsoever, and moreover that they ensure the said revelations won’t get printed and spread over their dioceses and the dioceses of their suffragans, but let them even carefully remove these wherever they have already been spread.
    As to the booklet disclosed by the press, four [of the consultors] advised that it be prohibited by a Decree of the 4th feria. But also, that the decree remains under the secrecy of the Holy Office, for it to be published only if and only when the Most Eminent Fathers will consider it useful and appropriate.
    • Jacobini Ads
    3rd Feria instead of the 4th, August 3, 1880
    The Most Eminent Lords, ad mentem: their thought is that if there comes any request similar to the one presented by the superior of La Salette’s missionaries, the response has to be: that it does not please the Holy See to see this booklet spreading out, and that he rather wants to remove it wherever it has been spread. That this be repeated also to the Bishop of Castellamare, asking him to inform Mélanie of these decisions made by the Holy See about her booklet, and that she be forbidden to write more things of that sort, especially to give explanations on this booklet.
    Jacobini As.
    The same day of feria,
    On the same date the Holy Father approved. A. Jacobini As.

    • F)      Letter from Cardinal Prospero Caterini, Cardinal secretary of the Holy Office, to His Excellency Bishop Cortet, bishop of Troyes, August 14, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p.273)
    Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord and Brother,
    The Sacred Congregation of the Index transmitted to the Supreme Congregation the letter of Your Excellency regarding the booklet entitled “The Apparition of the Holy Virgin on the Mountain of La Salette.” Moreover, the Most Eminent Fathers, [who] along with me [are] General Inquisitors, have judged worthy of the greatest praise the zeal you displayed in denouncing to them the said booklet; it is convenient indeed for you to know that the publication that was made of it did not please the Holy See at all: and therefore, his will is that the copies of this booklet, wherever they have been released, be removed from the faithful’s hands, as far as possible.
    While fulfilling the duties of my office, I renew to Your Excellency the expression of my best regards, and I pray to the Lord that He may fulfill all the wishes of happiness I wish for you.
    Rome, August 14, 1880 P. Cardinal Caterini
    To the Most Reverend Bishop of Troyes
    • G)    Decree of the Holy Office of Thursday 25 August, 1880 (CORTEVILLE, p.274)

    4th Feria, August 25, 1880
    The Most Eminent and Most Reverend Lords, regarding the forbidden publication of Melanie’s booklet, approved the advice of the Lord Bishop of Grenoble.
    Jacobini As.
    The same feria and day recounted to the Most Holy [Father]
    • H)    Decree of the Holy Office of Wednesday 16 February, 1881 (CORTEVILLE, p.278)
    4th Feria, of February 16, 1881
    The Most Eminent have decided: that it be written 1° to the bishop of Lecce ad mentem:  the mind [of the Holy Office] is to tell him that this Supreme Congregation and His Holiness are highly surprised that he wrote letters relative to this case, disobeying to the received orders, and that he reports it.
    2° That it be written to the Bishop of Castellamare ad mentem: the thought [of the Holy Office is] that he renews to sister Mélanie the prohibition to keep doing what she is doing, threatening her of being deprived of using the sacraments if she keeps transgressing.
    Jacobini As.
    The same day and the same feria:
    The Most Holy [Father] confirmed it. Jacobini As


    [Docuмent #2]
    Two books of Father Combe are placed on the Index
    On June 7, 1901, the book of Father Gilbert-Joseph-Emile Combe entitled: Le grand coup avec sa date probable, Etude sur le Secret de La Salette » (The Great Strike and its Probable Date, Study on the Secret of La Salette), published in 1894, is placed on the Index; then on April 12, 1907, another book from the same author is also placed on the Index: Le secret de Mélanie, bergère de la Salette, et la crise actuelle (The Secret of Mélanie, Shepherdess of La Salette, and the Current Crisis), published in 1906.
    (see for example: Annales de N.D. de La Salette – 51st year – January 19, 1916 – p.551; note 20).


    [Docuмent #3]
    Condemnation of Father Rigaud and his periodical
    A condemned journal
    On December 11, 1910, the Osservatore Romano published the following information:
    “For several years, a periodical entitled Annales mensuelles des Croisés de Marie et des apôtres des derniers temps (Monthly Annals of Mary’s Crusaders and the Apostles of the Latter Days) has been published in Limoges (France) without the permission of diocesan authority prescribed by the apostolic constitution Officiorum, by the priest Ernet Rigaud. A periodical in which, regardless of the reservations imposed by Urban VIII, are reported alleged miracles and prophecies, in a manner extremely inappropriate and outrageous towards high-ranking ecclesiastical dignitaries.
    Let the faithful be warned against this publication: they are strongly urged not to read it, or foster it in any way whatsoever.”
    Cardinal Merry del Val, Secretary of the Holy Office, gave confirmation to this note from Osservatore Romano, in a letter issued on January 30, 1911:
    From the Vatican, January 30, 1911
    To His Excellency Bishop Firmin-Léon-Joseph Renouard
    Bishop of Limoges
    Your Excellency,
    It has just been related to the Holy See that the press release from the Osservatore Romano dated December 11, 1910, concerning “Les Annales mensuelles des Croisés de Marie et des Apôtres des derniers temps”, is considered as inauthentic, and that its meaning and worth is contested.
    Therefore, I wish to proclaim to Your Excellency that this press release is perfectly authentic, and has a directive value; public opinion cannot henceforth be deceived by these false and treacherous manoeuvres.
    Your Excellency will not fail, after this declaration, to take the measures it deems appropriate in this regard.
    I take the opportunity to express towards Your Excellency my wholly devoted feelings in Our Lord.
    Cardinal Merry del Val
    (Annales de La Salette, mars 1911, pp. 701-702) 
    Bishop Renouard of Limoges declared Father Ernest Rigaud suspens a divinis, and forbade him to publish his periodical (February 18, 1911) and to celebrate Holy Mass (May 26, 1911).
    (See for example Annales de N.D. de La Salette – 51th year – January 19 1916 – p.550; note 19)
    But as Father Rigaud kept disobeying the canonical punishments inflicted on him by the diocesan bishop, Pope Saint Pius X personally wrote to him the following letter:
    To the Venerable Brother Firmin-Joseph Renouard
    Bishop of Limoges
    Venerable Brother,
    We come to tell you the deep sorrow caused to Us by the behavior of a priest of your diocese, [Father] Ernest Rigaud. Under the pretext of propagating an association he founded and of fostering the devotion to Our Lady of La Salette, he is revolting against your legitimate authority, despises your warnings and decrees, and takes no account of the suspension you were forced to inflict on him. But there is more. Based on some simple acknowledgments of receipt he would have received in the past from Rome, whose meaning he interprets and deforms as he pleases, this unfortunate priest prides himself of having received Our authorization and approbation to act as he does and to propagate his strange doctrine. From that he concludes that the Pope alone has a right to dispute his writings or to strike him. After the explicit notification published under Our command, he denies the authenticity of this act, notwithstanding the formal letter you addressed on this matter to Our Cardinal Secretary of State. He adds to that some outrageous publications against you and several bishops of France, truly scandalizing the faithful. Facing such excessive behaviors, evidenced by the folder that is before us, and having now exhausted any action that pity and longanimity could have suggested, We only have to invite you to address now a last admonition to this lost priest and tell him, in Our name, that if he does not immediately and completely give up his errors and his deplorable attitude, we shall apply to him the most severe ecclesiastical punishments. In the hope that Our Lord will deign to enlighten this priestly soul and recall him to the truth and to his duty, We unite in this purpose Our prayers to Yours, and We wholeheartedly impart to You, Venerable Brother, with your clergy and all the faithful of your diocese, the Apostolic Blessing.
    Rome, from Vatican, July 1st 1911
    Pius P.P. X
    (See Annales de N.-D. de La Salette, August 1911, pp. 90-91)


    [Docuмent #4]
    Acta of the Holy See: Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office
    Ex Acta Apostolicæ Sedis – Annus VII – Vol. VII – p. 594.
    • A)    Decree concerning what is commonly called “Secret of La Salette” (December 21, 1915)
    “This Supreme Congregation (of the Holy Office) has been informed that some people, even members of the clergy, ignoring the responses and decisions of the said S. Congregation, keep discussing and dealing with in books, booklets, articles, anonymous or not, of what we call the Secret de La Salette, his various aspects and applications in present or forthcoming times, and this without the permission of the Ordinaries, but rather against their prohibition. In order to repress these abuses, which are detrimental to true piety and seriously offensive to ecclesiastical authority, the said Sacred Congregation prohibits the faithful from all over the world to discuss and deal with this topic, under any pretext or in any way whatsoever.
    Anyone who violates this prohibition of the Holy Office, if he is a priest, shall be deprived of any dignity of which he may be vested, and the Ordinary shall strike them with interdiction to hear confessions and celebrate the Mass; if he is a layman, he shall be denied the sacraments until he repents.
    Moreover, one and the other shall incur the penalties decreed by both Leo XIII (Constitution Officiorum ac munerum), against them who publish religious works without the legitimate permission of superiors, and Urban VIII (decree Sanctissimus Dominus Noster, March 13 1625) against them who spread among the people alleged revelations.
    This decree however does not condemn the devotion to Our Lady under the title of “Reconciler,” commonly called “of La Salette.”
    Given at Rome, at the Holy Office Palace, December 21, 1915
    Louis Castellano, Notary of the S.R. and U.I.”
    This decree was transmitted two days after to the Bishop of Grenoble by Monsignor Donato Sbaretti, titulary Archbishop of Ephesus and assessor of this Supreme Congregation. Here is the translation of the expedition ticket:
    “Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office.
    Rome, December 23, 1915.
    Along with this letter, I send to Your Excellency a copy of the decree of this Supreme Congregation, that prohibits any publication regarding what we call “Le Secret de La Salette.”
    Please agree with all the wishes that I form for you.
    Your truly devoted servant,
    † Donato, Archbishop of Ephesus, assessor.
    To the Most Reverend Father His Excellency Bishop of Grenoble”
    • B) Letter of Cardinal Merry del Val to the Bishop of Grenoble (February 7, 1916)
    “Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office.
    Rome, February 7, 1916.
    Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord,
    In the supplement of the newspaper La Croix (supplement to the n°10.074) dated January 12 of the current year, after the relation of this Supreme Congregation’s decree dated December 21, 1915, regarding what is commonly called the Secret de La Salette, are reported some conclusions apparently drawn from La semaine religieuse in which it is stated that by this decree is recognized the fact of the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary at La Salette. By the present letter to Your Excellency, I would like to indicate on this matter, in the name of this same Congregation, that the intention of the Holy Office regarding this decree was neither to make a judgment nor to express an opinion on the fact of the apparition, and that the above mentioned conclusions shall be corrected accordingly.
    Please accept my best wishes.
    Of Your Excellency
    The most devoted servant in the Lord.
    • Card. Merry del Val
    To the Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord Louis Joseph Maurin, Bishop of Grenoble


    [Docuмent #5]
    Ex Acta Apostolicæ Sedis – Annus VIII – Volumen VIII – p. 175.
    Declaration concerning a book
    Wednesday 12 April, 1916
    In the general assembly of this Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Lords Cardinals, General Inquisitors in matters of Faith and morals, have declared that the book entitled “La Leçon de l’Hôpital Notre-Dame d’Ypres – Exégèse du Secret de La Salette – par le Dr Henri Mariavé, tome I, Paris, 1915; tome II, Appendices, Montpellier, 1915” (The lesson of the Hospital of Our Lady of Ypres – Exegesis of the Secret of La Salette – by Dr. Henri Mariavé, Volume I, Paris, 1915; Volume II, Appendices, Montpellier, 1915) has been condemned and proscribed by the general rules of the constitution Officiorum ac munerum.
    Given in Rome, at the Holy Office Palace, April 13, 1916.
    Luigi Castellano, Notary of the S.R and U.I.
    Ex Acta Apostolicæ Sedis – Annus VIII – Volumen VIII – pp. 178-179.
    Sacred Congregation of the Index – Decree
    The Sacred Congregation of the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, who have been made by His Holiness the Pope Benedict XV attendants and delegates in the whole Christendom to the Index of [Forbidden Books], to their proscription and permission, gathered in the Apostolic Palace of the Vatican in June 5, 1916, has condemned and condemns, has proscribed and proscribes, has commanded and commands that the works condemned and proscribed in other circuмstances shall be placed on the Index of Forbidden Books:

    Dr Henri Mariavé, La leçon de l’hôpital Notre-Dame d’Ypres. Exégèse du secret de la Salette, tome I, Paris, 1915 ; tome II, Appendices, Montpellier, 1915 (Decr. S. Off. 12 apr. 1916).
    Therefore no one, of whatever rank or condition, shall dare to publish in the future the condemned and proscribed works abovementioned, nor to read them or keep with oneself the already published ones, otherwise he would face the penalties prescribed in the Index of Forbidden Books.
    This has been recounted by me, Secretary to His Holiness the Pope Benedict XV, His Holiness approved this decree and commanded that it be promulgated. In witness thereof, etc.
    Given at Rome, June 6, 1916.
    Fr. Card. Della Volpe, Prefect.
    • † S.
    Thomas Esser, O.P., Secretary.


    [Docuмent #5 bis]
    Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office
    (Source : “Le secret de La Salette devant l’Episcopat français”, by the Marquis de la Vauzelle)
    Rome, August 21, 1916.
    Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord,
    In the meeting held on Wednesday, 16 of the current month, concerning the appeal of the Marquis de la Vauzelle against the decree of Your Eminence, of January 13, 1916, in execution of the decree issued by this Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, December 21, 1915, regarding what is commonly called “Le secret de La Salette,” after taking into consideration the things Your Eminence itself submits to us, the Most Reverend and Most Illustrious Cardinals General Inquisitors have decided not to support the appeal of the applicant; consequently, he must obey the commands of the bishop, and the bishop shall report back in due time.
    I take this occasion to further wish Your Eminence all kinds of prosperities and successes.
    To the Most Eminent and Most Reverend
    Monsignor the Cardinal member of the Private Counsel,
    Fr. Dom. M. Pasqualino O.P.
    Comm. Gliss. S.O.


    [Docuмent #6]
    Ex Acta Apostolicæ Sedis – Annus XV – Vol. XV – p. 287.
    Condemnation of the booklet “The Apparition of the Most Holy Virgin of La Salette”
    Decree of the Holy Office
    In the general assembly of the Congregation of the Holy Office, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals guardians of Faith and morals have proscribed and condemned the booklet “L’apparition de la Très Sainte Vierge sur la sainte montagne de la Salette, le samedi 19 septembre 1845. – Simple réimpression du texte intégral publié par Mélanie, etc… Société St-Augustin, Paris-Rome-Bruges, 1922” (The Apparition of the Most Holy Virgin on the Holy Mountain of La Salette, on Saturday 19 September, 1845. – Simple reprint of the complete text published by Mélanie, etc…) urging those who have the right to do so to have the condemned booklet removed from the hands of the faithful.
    The same day, His Holiness the Pope Pius XI, in the ordinary audience given to the Reverend Assessor of the Holy Office, approved the decision taken by the Most Eminent Cardinals.
    Given in Rome, at the Holy Office Palace, May 10, 1923.
    Luigi Castellano,
    Notary of the Holy Office.


    [Docuмent #7]
    Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office
    From the Holy Office Palace, January 8, 1957.
    Most Reverend Father,
    By your request letter dated December 14, 1956, you submitted to the Holy Office the following question: “If by the May 9, 1923 decree, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office wanted to condemn the booklet L’apparition de la Très Sainte Vierge sur la sainte montagne de La Salette, le Samedi 19 septembre 1845, Société Saint-Augustin, Paris-Rome-Bruges, 1922, of 40 pages; or if it [the decree] only concerns the booklet published with the adjunction of the letter of Dr. Mariavé (alias Dr. Grémillon de Montpellier), which has 11 extra pages.”
    On this matter, you pointed out that in some circles, it was told that the booklet, denounced and condemned by the Holy Office, would have certainly not been the one published by the Société St-Augustin, but only the one which was propagated without the consent and knowledge of its author, which contains Mariavé’s letter, dated February 2, 1923.
    Therefore, I make it my duty to let you know that this Supreme Congregation has examined and condemned by the aforementioned decree the said booklet published and propagated by the Société St-Augustin, even without the letter of Dr. Mariavé.
    I take this opportunity to declare myself, with a sense of distinct esteem, most devoted to you Reverend Father.
    • Card. Pizzardo,
    Secretary.
    To the Most Reverend Father Francesco Molinari, General Procurator of the Congregation of the Missionaries of Our Lady of La Salette.
    Rome.

    A Few Comments about the Published Docuмents
    [Docuмent #1]
    The publication of the “Secret” in 1879, with the Imprimatur of Bishop Zola of Lecce, caused the reaction of several bishops.

    It seems that the denunciation of the booklet to the Holy See came from two different sides. There was, on the one hand, a letter of denunciation from Bishop Cortet of Troyes, dated February 15 and sent February 16, 1880 to the Paris nunciature; the denunciation was transmitted to the Sacred Congregation of the Index by a letter dated February 28. On June 13, 1880, Father A. Eschbach, Relator of the Index, formulated his “votum” on the matter, estimating that it should be addressed by the Holy Office: (“I do not think it is up to our Sacred Congregation of the Index to adjudicate or resolve such issues; it pertains rather to the Holy Office. Therefore, in order to answer the question which was put to me as Relator of the Index of the Most Reverend Father Saccheri, Secretary of the Congregation, I would say, according to my humble judgment and remaining except any more authoritative judgment, that the said booklet referred to the Index by His Eminence the nuncio of Paris has to be transmitted with its attachments to the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office” Corteville, pp. 253-254). On the other hand, the Holy Office was already interested in the issue, as recalled in the report from Father Bernard Smith O.S.B., Consultor of the Holy Office: “By order of the Holy Father, the Most Eminent Cardinal Bartolini delivered personally and denounced to the Supreme Congregation in February 19 the booklet written in French by Mélanie, published in Lecce, with the approbation of the Curia by the end of 1879” (Corteville, p.262). It was probably the Patriarch of Venice who had caused this intervention by the Holy Office: as some people wanted to publish an edition of the “Secret” in his diocese, he had written about this topic on January 19. As early as January 19, 1880, the Holy Office was thus dealing with this issue.

    Docuмent 1A). At the meeting of the Holy Office on February 19, 1880, it was decided that the Commissioner of the Holy Office would present a report on the topic at the next meeting, on February 26. It is based on this report that the docuмent related in Corteville’s translation was redacted. The “French priest” referred to was Father Crévoulin, of the church of the Holy Saviour in Rome. Also, on February 28, pursuant to the decree of the Holy Office, the secretary of the Holy Inquisition Cardinal Prospero Caterini wrote a letter to Cardinal Caverot, Bishop of Lyon, the diocese from which Mélanie’s booklet was spreading, and to Bishop Zola of Lecce, in whose diocese the booklet was printed (the two letters have been lost). Cardinal Caverot responded on March 7 (the letter’s content was published in Corteville, pp. 255-258) saying that he himself was about to denounce the booklet to the Holy Office when the letter of Cardinal Caterini had reached him. As to Bishop Zola, he responded on March 6 (text present in Corteville, pp. 255-258) saying that the “Secret” had already been printed at Grenoble (from 1871 to 1874) by C.R. Girard, and at Naples in 1873 by Father Félicien Bliard, with the approbation of Cardinal Sisto Riario Sforza. Mélanie – said Bishop Zola on March 6 – “placed in my hands, as early as 1869, the original manuscript of her revelations of La Salette. Questioned many times by myself, and put to probation, she declared to me constantly and evenly throughout various times, and in any case, that she had done nothing but reproduce sincerely and faithfully in her writing the very words uttered by the Most Holy Virgin at La Salette, as she had also written to Pius IX in 1851” [3]. (cf. Stern, vol. 3, p. 124, note 54. But the same Bishop Zola wrote on November 8 to Girard: “in the secret written to the Pope, there are elements not present [illegible word] to Monsignor Bliard, and even in this one there are things not confided to the Pope'' cf. Stern, ibid, p.119, note 38; see the texts themselves to compare the 1851 and the 1879 versions). However, the Bishop of Lecce concluded as follows (in his letter dated March 6): “I finally note for Your Eminence that upon receiving orders from this Supreme Congregation, I have already withdrawn from my possession the few copies of the booklet which were at the Lecce publisher. I also wrote to Mélanie, to whom the entire edition was sent by the publisher himself, to send me back all the copies that may be with her and could have been withdrawn from France. That’s all I had to tell you, in execution of the orders issued by Your Eminence, declaring myself further willing to receive with due submission whatever the Holy See would like to dispose of and judge on this subject.” (See Corteville, p.258; original Italian in Galli, p.220).

    Docuмent 1B). From Castellamare, Mélanie went to Rome on November 24, 1878 (in order to submit to the Sacred Congregation of Bishops and Regulars the religious rule of the “Mother of God’s Order”) and stayed here until May 5 of the following year (cf. Father Gouin, Sœur Marie de la Croix, Bergère de La Salette, née Mélanie Calvat, Tertiaire de Saint Dominique, Victime de Jésus, Téqui, 1969, pp. 118-129). On December 3, 1878, Mélanie was granted a private audience by Pope Leo XIII. On that occasion, the Pope consulted the Cardinals Guidi, Ledochowski and Consolini regarding the Secret; the last one sent the text to the Pope. A few months later, the Secret was printed at Lecce. This is why the Holy Office asked to compare the text given to Cardinal Consolini and the one printed at Lecce.

    Docuмent 1C).  This docuмent is the response of the Holy Office to the letter (of May 30, 1880) to Cardinal Caterini from Bishop Vincezo Maria Sarnelli, Bishop of Castellamare, diocese in which Mélanie was residing (text in Corteville, p.260). The bishop was complaining about the fact that Bishop Zola was directing Mélanie without him knowing, and was asking if “the Holy See permits the spreading of the book” and if he allows Mélanie to leave the diocese.

    Docuмent 1D). This letter from Cardinal Caterini to Bishop Zola (it’s the second one written to him, the first one has been lost) is a consequence of the Holy Office decree reproduced in the preceding docuмent. Bishop Zola responded on June 26 (text in Corteville, pp. 261-262) stating that for seven years now, that is to say since he was raised to the episcopacy, he was not directing Mélanie anymore.

    Docuмent 1E). The Holy Office decided on June 2 (docuмent C) to have Mélanie’s booklet examined. The Benedictine Father Bernard Smith, consultor of the Holy Office, was put in charge of that examination; on July 5, 1880, he delivered his printed report (text in Corteville, pp. 262-268) to which another consultor replied, Father Alessandro del Magno, Dean of the Roman Rota, in a handwritten text dated July 26 (text in Corteville, pp. 269-271). The same day, the Consultors came to the conclusion reported in this docuмent, whereas on August 3rd the Father Inquisitors limited themselves (as reported in the present docuмent) to impose silence on Mélanie and to have the booklet withdrawn from trade. The superior of the Missionaries of La Salette, cited in the decree, was Father Archier represented by Monsignor Bernard, missionary of La Salette and Apostolic Prefect of Norway.

    Docuмent 1F). Pursuant to the preceding decree (decree of August 3, docuмent E), Cardinal Caterini wrote on August 8 to Father Archier, Superior of the Missionaries of La Salette (his letter can be found in the archives of the general house of missionaries in Rome), and to Bishop Sarnelli of Castellamare (“forbid her henceforth to write similar things and to give explanations on the things already written,” quoted by Stern, note 43; a copy of the letter sent to Mélanie is kept in the archives of the postulation of the Rogationists at Rome), and on August 14 to the Bishop of Tarentaise (who had written to the Holy Office) and to Bishop Cortet of Troyes, who had denounced Mélanie’s booklet to the Nuncio of Paris.

    Against these letters of Cardinal Caterini, the lawyer Mr. Amédée Nicolas publicly advocated the “secret,” causing the publication of the letter to the Bishop of Troyes in the Semaine religieuse de Nîmes, followed by many “words of warning” from French bishops (cf. Stern, vol. 3, pp. 120-122; the letter from Cardinal Caterini to the Bishop of Troyes was published by roughly a dozen of diocesan bulletins: cf. Corteville, p.274). Until the publication, in the year 2000, by Father Corteville of previously unpublished Holy Office docuмents here reproduced, the letter of Cardinal Caterini (Docuмent F) was almost the only widely known text of this case relative to the year 1880.

    It was said about the Cardinal Caterini’s letter that it resulted from a private initiative, issued without the knowledge and consent of the Congregation itself: “Obviously”, wrote in 2001 Antonio Galli, “the prohibition imposed on the prelate [Bishop Zola] did not result from a collegial decision of the ‘Most Eminent General Inquisitors’ in complete accordance with the Holy See… The Congregation had not been summoned, nor the Holy See informed” (p.222). Yet the docuмents published show the opposite: “According to Nicolas (Nouvelle défense … Nîmes, 1884, p. 63), the ellipsis at the end of this docuмent [published by the Semaine religieuse de Nîmes on September 4, 1880] are supposed to replace the following words: ‘as to clergymen, they shall keep the secret with them so that they can profit from him’. The facsimile of the letter published in the Annales [of La Salette] in May 1913 proves however that the ellipsis only replaced the closing formula” (Stern, vol. 3, p. 122, note 46). Father Corteville (who is in favor of the “Secrets”), reproducing also the original text, corroborates this fact, thus demolishing the fallacy spread by Mr. Nicolas.

    Docuмent 1G). Bishop Fava of Grenoble did not deem it appropriate to publish Cardinal Caterini’s letter in the Annales de Notre-Dame de La Salette (docuмent of August 20, 1880; quoted by Corteville, p.274). The Holy Office (docuмent G) indeed would have rather kept the issue secret. Yet on August 24, the Bishop of Grenoble wrote to Father Archier, superior of the Missionaries of La Salette, so that the booklet stops spreading, and instead be removed from the people, exactly as the Holy Office ordered (cf. Stern, vol. 3, p. 122).

    Docuмent 1H). On February 15, 1881, Bishop Cortet of Troyes presented himself to Leo XIII who invited him to get in touch with the Commissioner of the Holy Office. In his report dated from the next day (text in Corteville, pp. 227-228), the Commissioner reported that Bishop Cortet had denounced three new booklets: “the first booklet is from the lawyer Amédée Nicolas, printed in Nîmes [La nouvelle guerre faite au Miracle de la Salette faite sous le couvert du Secret de Mélanie, Nîmes, Péladan, 1880 – The New War Made Upon the Miracle of La Salette on the pretext of Mélanie’s Secret], where it is said that two letters from Bishop S. L. Zola of Lecce are reported. The second one is from Mr. Adrien Péladan and is labeled ‘Dernier mot des prohéties, ou l’avenir dévoilé’ [Last Say of the Prophecies, or the Future Unveiled]. The third booklet is titled ‘Lettres de Mgr Sauveur-Louis Zola Evêque de Lecce à un curé d’un diocèse de France sur le Secret de Mélanie, dans lequel sont aussi reportées quelques lettres écrites par d’autres et par Mélanie elle-même ’ [Letters from Bishop Salvatore Luigi Zola, Bishop of Lecce, to a parish priest of a French diocese (Father Roubaud, parish priest of Saint-Tropez) about Mélanie’s secret, in which are related a few letters written by others or by Mélanie herself].” The Commissioner recalled the prohibitions issued by the Holy Office (prohibition on Bishop Zola to have any relations with Mélanie, June 2, 1880; prohibition on Mélanie to issue any comment or explanation on the Secret – letter to the Bishop of Castellamare, August 3, 1880; obligation to keep silent on the part of Father Rigaud, redactor of the Annales des Croisés de Marie, communicated in September to the Bishops of Limoges and Carcassonne). The Commissioner concluded: “it is thus obvious that neither the Bishop of Lecce nor Mélanie have observed the prescriptions received especially from this dicastery” (text in Corteville, pp. 277-278). The decision of the Holy Office, from the same day February 16, 1881 (docuмent H), is the result of this report. Cardinal Caterini therefore wrote again to Bishop Zola on February 23, 1881, who responded on March 4th by pointing out that the incriminated letters had all been written before receiving the injunction not to write anymore on this topic: “I couldn’t indeed disobey an order that was not yet given to me.” The remark of Bishop Zola was formally true (even though not very fitting with the February 26, 1880 decree), which is why “The Primary Congregation almost excused Bishop Zola” (letter from Bishop Sarnelli of Castellamare, July 26, 1882, to Cardinal Ferrieri, in Corteville, p. 283). The same Sarnelli had communicated to Mélanie the threat of being deprived of Sacraments, as he reported in a letter to Cardinal Caterini, of February 28, 1881 (in Corteville, p.282). Bishop Zola complied with the prohibition to write anything on the matter from 1880 to 1895.

    Note on the “Curia style” and the translation of Father Corteville. Many readers may be puzzled by the Holy Office docuмents we are publishing, first because it results from a French translation of Latin original (or Italian) [Translator’s note: and now an English translation of a French translation from Latin or Italian!], then because it uses a technical terminology (the “Curia style”), unusual to the “uninitiated.” This brings many difficulties for the translator. Take for example the Latin term “mens,” used in two different ways: “ad mentem” and “mens est.” As for the first expression (ad mentem), Corteville often leaves it in Latin; another time, he translates it as “to decide” (pour se prononcer). Regarding the expression “mens est,” he translates it in multiple different ways: “it is in their minds” (il est de leur pensée – Docuмent B), “the thought is” (l’opinion est – Docuмents C, D, E), “the mind is” (l’esprit [du Saint-Office] est – Docuмent H). The Enciclopedia Cattolica (Città del Vaticano 1949, vol. I, col. 309-310) explains the formula as follows: “Ad mentem (iuxta mentem, iuxta modum). It is one of the extensively used formulas in the answers usually given by the dicasteries of Roman Curia, especially by the Sacred Congregations; it has the effect of adding to the rescript some conditions or terms that gives it a more precise meaning, for it not to be not overly absolute or generic, or else it prescribes conditions and terms relative to the execution of the rescript. Such a declaration, generally expressed by the words ‘Mens est…’ is not always made public [as in the case of the decrees over the ‘Secret” of La Salette], but communicated only to people involved in the matter discussed.” Another more succinct explanation: “ad mentem: clausula by which the substantive decision is moderated. The competent Congregations sometimes make public the reasons which inspired such sentence.” (Dictionnaire de Droit canonique, Paris 1942, T. 3, Clausules apostoliques. Clausules usitées dans leurs réponses par les Congrégations Romaines, col. 821).

    [Docuмent #2]
    Father Emile Combe, parish priest of Diou in the Allier département (died in 1927), hosted Mélanie from May 1899 to June 1904 (Mélanie died in Altamura on December 14, 1904). It was Father Combe who transmitted the manuscript of Mélanie’s autobiography to the well-known French author Léon Bloy, who published it under the title “Vie de Mélanie bergère de La Salette. Écrite par elle-même en 1900. Son enfance (1831-1846) (Stern, p. 222, note 3).” (Life of Mélanie, Shepherdess of La Salette. Written by Herself in 1900. Her Childhood 1831-1846). The first of condemned books, ‘Le grand coup avec sa date probable,’ placed on the Index in 1901, was printed at Vichy (Allier) in 1894, and gave as probable dates of the “great strike” September 19-20 1896; a third edition was published in 1896, still at Vichy. The second one, ‘Le Secret de Mélanie,’ printed at Rome in 1906, was placed on the Index in 1907, under the pontificate of Saint Pius X. In this second book are reported words attributed to Mélanie and which would constitute a yet unpublished part of the Secret (Corteville calls it the “second secret” p.307). According to this testimony, the Blessed Virgin would have, among other things, revealed to Mélanie in 1846 at La Salette that the souls in Limbo will be put in the state of innocence and be able to live in this state on earth (cf. Corteville, pp. 308-309; “doctrine de la Rénovation”). The books of Father Combe, and Combe himself, are held in high esteem in the circles of Mélanie’s defenders: for example, here is
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #24 on: June 03, 2023, 06:12:28 AM »
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  • Also from Yeti's link to True Restoration Press is this note (the following argument is often made by those who oppose Valtorta, but evidently dismissed by those same persons who promote the Indexed portion of La Salette):

    "By “Holy See,” the Code of Canon Law (can. 7) designates “not just the Roman Pontiff, but also…the Congregations, Tribunals, and Offices through which the same Roman Pontiff is wont to expedite the affairs of the Universal Church.” In our present work are to be found docuмents from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office (which was, in Roman Curia, the “Supreme” Congregation), and from the Sacred Congregation of the Index. Concerning the worth of the decisions issued by Sacred Roman Congregations, let us recall that Saint Pius X, in the Decree Lamentabilii, adjunct to the Encyclical Pascendi, condemned the modernist proposition according to which “They are free from all blame who treat lightly the condemnations passed by the Sacred Congregation of the Index or by the Roman Congregations.” (D.S. 3408). "

    Therefore, if we are to shun Valtorta because it was condemned by the preconciliar Holy Office, why am I not to shun the condemned portions of La Salette for the same reason.

    Note: I have no interest in Valtorta; I'm just pointing out the inconsistency.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #25 on: June 03, 2023, 06:25:20 AM »
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  • Very complicated, isn't it?
    We need to appoint an ecclesiastical commission to investigate... one day the truth will emerge.
    One thing is (almost) certain: Rome has (seemingly) lost the Faith and become the seat of the antichrist. Contra factum non fit argumentum.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #26 on: June 03, 2023, 06:38:45 AM »
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  • Very complicated, isn't it?
    We need to appoint an ecclesiastical commission to investigate... one day the truth will emerge.
    One thing is (almost) certain: Rome has (seemingly) lost the Faith and become the seat of the antichrist. Contra factum non fit argumentum.
    On that, we agree.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #27 on: June 03, 2023, 08:05:48 AM »
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  • But how can it be true that the Holy See has lost faith and, at the same time, be true what the infallible magisterium of the First Vatican Council affirms here?: ..."Quin etiam Ecclesia per se ipsa, ob suam nempe admirabilem propagationem, eximiam sanctitatem et inexhaustam in omnibus bonis foecunditatem, ob catholicam unitatem invictamque stabilitatem magnum quoddam et perpetuum est motivum credibilitatis et divinae suae legationis testimony irrefragabile." (Dz 3013 1794).
    Noblesse oblige.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #28 on: June 03, 2023, 09:24:22 AM »
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  • "The Mystical City of God" was approved by five Popes.

    Yeah, there was a group of theologians at the Sorbonne who condemned it, largely due to a bad French translation and also because there were a few who had Jansenist leanings, but Rome reversed any condemnation and, as you point out, subsequently approved of it.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano's Consecration to Our Lady of LaSalette
    « Reply #29 on: June 03, 2023, 09:40:25 AM »
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  • But how can it be true that the Holy See has lost faith and, at the same time, be true what the infallible magisterium of the First Vatican Council affirms here?: ..."Quin etiam Ecclesia per se ipsa, ob suam nempe admirabilem propagationem, eximiam sanctitatem et inexhaustam in omnibus bonis foecunditatem, ob catholicam unitatem invictamque stabilitatem magnum quoddam et perpetuum est motivum credibilitatis et divinae suae legationis testimony irrefragabile." (Dz 3013 1794).

    Where did the Secret indicate that the "Holy See" would lose the faith?  It clearly said "Rome".