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Author Topic: US SSPX Ordinations  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: US SSPX Ordinations
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2023, 08:19:46 AM »
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  • How many were in entering classes when we were there? Something like 20? And only a few were actually ordained.

    We had 21 enter, and, if I recall, only about 2-4 (can't recall the exact number) were ultimately ordained to the priesthood.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #16 on: June 24, 2023, 08:41:26 AM »
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  • So, I found it here.  I entered in Fall 1989, so the ordination class of 1995.  Four priests were ordained (out of the 21 original).


    Of the 4, of course, one was the infamous Eric Ensey.  I don't think Ensey was part of the original 1989 entering class, but transferred in somehow (not sure of where he came from).

    In the following year's class, you had 7, but Robert Neville is now an SV bishop, Marshall Roberts, well, we know about him, Father Chazal of course has gone Resistance.  Father Angelo Van der Putten (brother of the infamous Benedict) went FSSP in 2004.  Father John Peek passed away in 2009.  Father Allan Mullan left SSPX in 2003 and is married somewhere (don't know the details).  So, of the 7 ordained the following year, in 1996, only 1 remains, Father John Fullerton.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #17 on: June 24, 2023, 09:02:33 AM »
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  • So, I found it here.  I entered in Fall 1989, so the ordination class of 1995.  Four priests were ordained (out of the 21 original).


    Of the 4, of course, one was the infamous Eric Ensey.  I don't think Ensey was part of the original 1989 entering class, but transferred in somehow (not sure of where he came from).

    In the following year's class, you had 7, but Robert Neville is now an SV bishop, Marshall Roberts, well, we know about him, Father Chazal of course has gone Resistance.  Father Angelo Van der Putten (brother of the infamous Benedict) went FSSP in 2004.  Father John Peek passed away in 2009.  Father Allan Mullan left SSPX in 2003 and is married somewhere (don't know the details).  So, of the 7 ordained the following year, in 1996, only 1 remains, Father John Fullerton.

    There were 10 seminarians in my class (which was also Matthew's class).

    Only Fr. Riccomini made it to ordination.

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #18 on: June 24, 2023, 09:14:19 AM »
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  • Who is who in that photo?  Any CathInfo folks there?

    When I first got involved with the SSPX world, I was surprised at how many priests left (for whatever reason).  If a business continually lost 50% of its work force one would wonder what the problem was.  Any thoughts on why so many priests leave the SSPX?  

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #19 on: June 24, 2023, 09:51:56 AM »
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  • Who is who in that photo?  Any CathInfo folks?

    If you go to this 22 year-old issue of Verbum (ie., the seminary’s newspaper), and scroll down to the article on the “Turkey Bowl,” I’m in a few pics there.

    https://stas.org/sites/sspx/files/v084_win2002.pdf

    Ahh, to be young again…

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #20 on: June 24, 2023, 10:21:16 AM »
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  • There were 10 seminarians in my class (which was also Matthew's class).

    Only Fr. Riccomini made it to ordination.

    Even then, when you have like 10 - 20 percent on average making it to ordination, one could claim that it's do to the "rigor" of the formation, but IMO there's long been something amiss at SSPX that way.  Many of those whom you could bet on making it through to ordination end up getting worked out.  I could go into theories at length about various reasons many promising young prospective priests got weeded out, but I'll just write briefly about the case of my younger brother Steve (God rest his soul).  He was in that class of '96 and was a very solid seminarian.  Although I was 5 years older, Steve was just 1 year behind me, since I had gone to Loyola University Chicago and gotten my degree in 3 years, whereas he entered right after High School.  We became Traditional Catholics during my first year at college.  In any case, Steve made it through 4 years, received all the Minor Orders, etc. and there were no issues.  During the Summer after his 4th year, he went on a retreat.  During the retreat, he mentioned to a spiritual director some issues he had with one Father Carlos Urrutigoity.  Steve felt that Urrutigoity was a Modernist, and he expressed some concerns along those lines to the spiritual director.  Although spiritual direction is secondarily covered by the seal of Confession, this director spilled the beans back to the seminary staff about what Steve had said about Father Urrutigoity.  Steve was right of course, and I had made similar complaints (openly) to Father Bourmaud (God rest his soul also) and others, and Father Bourmaud actually backed me up.  In any case, as a result of Steve's complaints, he was consigned to a year at St. Mary's, and he had such a terrible experience there, and also felt like they were giving him the runaround and got the impression they'd never ordain him, but just use him to work at St. Mary's as long as they could get away with it ... and so he left, dejected.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #21 on: June 24, 2023, 10:45:30 AM »
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  • In any case, as a result of Steve's complaints, he was consigned to a year at St. Mary's, and he had such a terrible experience there, and also felt like they were giving him the runaround and got the impression they'd never ordain him, but just use him to work at St. Mary's as long as they could get away with it ... and so he left, dejected.

    I've seen this type of thing too.  Baffling and just plain wrong.

    Offline trento

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #22 on: June 24, 2023, 10:51:18 AM »
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  • Who is who in that photo?  Any CathInfo folks there?

    When I first got involved with the SSPX world, I was surprised at how many priests left (for whatever reason).  If a business continually lost 50% of its work force one would wonder what the problem was.  Any thoughts on why so many priests leave the SSPX? 

    They either turn right (sedevacantism/sedeprivationism) or left (FSSP/Indult/Diocese) or laicised to get married or due to other moral allegations.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #23 on: June 24, 2023, 11:07:36 AM »
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  • They either turn right (sedevacantism/sedeprivationism) or left (FSSP/Indult/Diocese) or laicised to get married or moral allegations.

    I've never heard of an SSPX priest going with a diocese (and presumably offering the Novus Ordo in lieu of, or as well as, the TLM).  Not questioning what you say, but can you provide any examples?

    There are quite a few instances of diocesan priests going SSPX or similar.  Father Ronald Ringrose comes immediately to mind, and there were also Fr Terry Marks (requiescat in pace) and Fr Christopher Danel.  I knew Fr Marks well and he would rib me over my Appalachian origins, quite the witty man.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #24 on: June 24, 2023, 11:11:08 AM »
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  • I've never heard of an SSPX priest going with a diocese (and presumably offering the Novus Ordo in lieu of, or as well as, the TLM).  Not questioning what you say, but can you provide any examples?

    I'd say 50-100 would be a conservative estimate.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #25 on: June 24, 2023, 11:17:34 AM »
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  • I think the story was that there were 2-3 seminarians per room in Winona I don't know if that was really the case. Some may get along well like that, but I imagine many people seeking to become a priest would prefer their own room for the silence and lack of distraction. I thought the new building would have 120 seminarian rooms because it is the limit placed on the max number of seminarians under one rector, but I don't think there's 120, barely 100 at best.

    The 2 ordained this year entered at around the time that the move took place. The move was too early, so there was much work to finish making the place livable while they were living there. That would have been hard on some seminarians causing them to either take a year or 2 off, or wait to enter, or otherwise not persevere in that vocation.
    .
    Oh, well Heaven forbid those training for the priesthood train uncomfortably! 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline trento

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #26 on: June 24, 2023, 11:40:38 AM »
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  • I've never heard of an SSPX priest going with a diocese (and presumably offering the Novus Ordo in lieu of, or as well as, the TLM).  Not questioning what you say, but can you provide any examples?

    There are quite a few instances of diocesan priests going SSPX or similar.  Father Ronald Ringrose comes immediately to mind, and there were also Fr Terry Marks (requiescat in pace) and Fr Christopher Danel.  I knew Fr Marks well and he would rib me over my Appalachian origins, quite the witty man.

    Frs. Gary Campbell, Emmanuel Berger, Christophe Beaublat are a few examples that joined their local diocese.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #27 on: June 24, 2023, 11:43:14 AM »
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  • .
    Oh, well Heaven forbid those training for the priesthood train uncomfortably!

    I would venture to say that the reports of 3 (or even 2) seminarians in a room are made up.  Room sizes were way too small to accommodate more than 1, and possibly 2 if you stuck a bunk-bed in the room (and then they'd be sharing, i.e. taking turns at using, a desk).  Rooms there are really very small, enough for a bed, a desk, and a little sink we used to have.

    Whatever the case may be, however, the overcrowding was caused by adding that "Humanities" year and not due to some alleged explosion of vocations, and any such overcrowding could have been remedied easily and inexpensively by simply adding a wing onto the existing building.  Winona/STAS had many acres of land and could easily have been expanded.

    There were clearly non-practical reasons driving the move.

    Of course, given the fact that we now have many cradle Trads growing up and going through places like St. Mary's, one would certainly have expected a large increase in vocations ... but it's just not happening, leading one to question what the SSPX are actually doing.  Back in our day, seminarians were coming randomly from here, there, and the other place.  Now, from what I understand, the vast majority are coming from St. Mary's, but the total numbers have simply not increased that much from when I was there going on 35 years ago now.  Perhaps part of the numbers were offset by the FSSP option, and some additional SV options.

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #28 on: June 24, 2023, 12:34:10 PM »
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  • I would venture to say that the reports of 3 (or even 2) seminarians in a room are made up.  Room sizes were way too small to accommodate more than 1, and possibly 2 if you stuck a bunk-bed in the room (and then they'd be sharing, i.e. taking turns at using, a desk).  Rooms there are really very small, enough for a bed, a desk, and a little sink we used to have.

    Whatever the case may be, however, the overcrowding was caused by adding that "Humanities" year and not due to some alleged explosion of vocations, and any such overcrowding could have been remedied easily and inexpensively by simply adding a wing onto the existing building.  Winona/STAS had many acres of land and could easily have been expanded.

    There were clearly non-practical reasons driving the move.

    Of course, given the fact that we now have many cradle Trads growing up and going through places like St. Mary's, one would certainly have expected a large increase in vocations ... but it's just not happening, leading one to question what the SSPX are actually doing.  Back in our day, seminarians were coming randomly from here, there, and the other place.  Now, from what I understand, the vast majority are coming from St. Mary's, but the total numbers have simply not increased that much from when I was there going on 35 years ago now.  Perhaps part of the numbers were offset by the FSSP option, and some additional SV options.
    I vaguely remember seeing some bunk beds at Winona, but I could be making that up. It was a long time ago that I was there when it was still a seminary. How many bedrooms were there? They only have like 60-80 choir stalls right?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: US SSPX Ordinations
    « Reply #29 on: June 24, 2023, 12:47:11 PM »
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  • Of course, given the fact that we now have many cradle Trads growing up and going through places like St. Mary's, one would certainly have expected a large increase in vocations ... but it's just not happening, leading one to question what the SSPX are actually doing.  Back in our day, seminarians were coming randomly from here, there, and the other place.  Now, from what I understand, the vast majority are coming from St. Mary's, but the total numbers have simply not increased that much from when I was there going on 35 years ago now.  Perhaps part of the numbers were offset by the FSSP option, and some additional SV options.
    Maybe satan knows how good the SSPX is, so he keeps people from entering and persevering, and tries his hardest to modernize the SSPX. Maybe the nonSSPX seminaries are too easy because they really do care about maximizing their numbers. Maybe the humanities year is an attempt to make it easier for Americans to last longer in the seminary and get ordained. I'm sure there are plenty of real possibilities that make the SSPX look good as well as bad. It could be that the modern world corrupts families at the same rate tradition spreads, so that the rate of new seminarians stays the same rather than increases as you would expect. Some families get it right and have several successful vocations.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"