Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter  (Read 2632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Meg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6795
  • Reputation: +3472/-2999
  • Gender: Female
Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2019, 11:35:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • If you think the staff at One Peter Five don't greatly respect the SSPX, all I can say is you're hopelessly mistaken on that. There is a necessary conversation to be had. I'm all for attacking Modernism with firmness and severity and making proper appeals to authority.

    However, some of you just want the SSPX to sink, that's quite clear by now. And that's a rotten approach. Dr. Lamont is not saying that. Dr. Lamont's view is that Pope Francis is more radical than his predecessors and therefore a further step is needed. Fr. Gleize is saying we need to analyze the roots of some of the errors being promoted today by Pope Francis and they go back at least 50 years. It's those who think (or want) the SSPX to sink or "lose it" who are themselves in danger of losing it.

    I agree that the staff at 1P5 do respect +ABL. The Resistance.....not so much. And I have to say that many who write for 1P5 still do not really understand what +ABL stood for. They study little bits of what he stood for, but not the entirety. They are somewhat detached. I include Dr. Lamont in this assessment.

    I agree, too, that some here want the SSPX to sink. Although some of us who support the Resistance do not want the SSPX to sink, though we are few in number here. We still have hope that it will revert back to it's former stance of standing strong and firm against error, as +ABL did.

    Keep in mind that it's mainly the sedevacantists and sedeprivationists who could care less about the SSPX (and the Resistance). They tend to be the most vocal here.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Nishant Xavier

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2873
    • Reputation: +1894/-1751
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
    « Reply #16 on: October 25, 2019, 12:04:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Right, Meg. It's still a learning process for many of the good Catholics at 1P5. I just want to note even Dr. Lamont still agrees that Abp. Lefebvre was the Athanasius of our time, which is what Fr. Gleize was trying to prove, since these errors go back about 50 to 60 years.

    I think anyone who reads the SSPX site will see that the criticisms of the Amazon Synod etc have gone on. Dr. Lamont's letter does critique the errors being spread today. But the SSPX criticism of the method being followed now is mainly the unwillingness to criticize anything more than 6 years old, when a careful look at least the last 60 years is necessary. For e.g. Rev. Fr. Pagliarani, Superior General, said recently, to the question, "In your opinion, what should these prelates and faithful do who have at heart the future of the Church?

    First of all, they should have the lucidity and courage to recognize that there is a continuity between the teachings of the Council, the popes of the post-conciliar era, and the current pontificate. Citing the magisterium of "Saint" John Paul II, for example, to oppose Pope Francis's innovations is a very bad remedy, one that is doomed to failure from the outset. A good doctor cannot simply use a few stitches to close a wound without first evacuating the infection inside the wound. Far from despising these efforts, it is a matter of charity to indicate where the root of the problems lies.

    To give a concrete example of this contradiction, it is sufficient to mention one name among others: that of Cardinal Müller. He is presently the most virulent opponent of Amoris lætitia, the Instrumentum laboris, and the Curia's reform project. He uses very strong language, even talking about "breaking with Tradition." And yet, this cardinal who has the fortitude to publicly denounce these errors is the same one who wanted to impose the acceptance of the whole Council and the post-conciliar magisterium on the Society of Saint Pius X (in continuity with his predecessors and successors at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). Regardless of the Society and its positions, Cardinal Müller’s criticism, which focuses only on the symptoms without going back to their cause, gives rise to a most damaging and illogical situation." https://sspx.org/en/church-its-head-50632

    See also: Although arguing at great length that the cause of the disaster of this pontificate lies squarely at the feet of the Second Vatican Council, the Superior General is not dismissing the radical nature of the current pontificate. He describes Amoris Laetitia in the following dramatic fashion: “Amoris lætitia represents, in the history of the Church in recent years, what the atomic bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are in the modern history of Japan: humanely speaking, the damage is irreparable. It is undoubtedly the most revolutionary act of Pope Francis.” https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2019/09/17/a-true-doctor-of-souls-diagnoses-the-cancer-that-produced-the-malignant-tumor-of-the-pope-francis-pontificate-an-interview-of-father-davide-pagliarani/

    I think there's an important conversation to be had, but maybe it should be engaged in a little differently. Namely, recognizing that the SSPX has been right in making the criticisms it has been making for nearly 50 years now, and that the just basis of those criticism is now finally at last being more widely acknowledged by many. 


    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5174
    • Reputation: +2052/-428
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
    « Reply #17 on: October 25, 2019, 12:21:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I agree with St. Rober Bellarmine.  The Pope holds no office as a full blown heretic.  Jesus Christ said it so simple:  You will know them (enemy) by their fruits.

    Their fruits is the total destruction of the "Precious Blood" in all sacraments.  Destruction of Doctrine.

    Is this not prophesy?  Let us not be like the Jews who condemned Christ and did not follow their own scriptures/prophecies.  Let us be the Jews as Christ and His Mother were who fulfilled the Prophecies.

    When the Sacred Liturgy is horrendously destroyed, is that not enough to know, show, that these men are all the Satan.

    Do we not know, that is will take the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart to put things back in order.  Then a time of some Peace.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18594
    • Reputation: +5786/-1983
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
    « Reply #18 on: October 25, 2019, 03:10:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Douay-Rheims Bible
    But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. 
    May God bless you and keep you
    +RIP 11/14/25
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6795
    • Reputation: +3472/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
    « Reply #19 on: October 25, 2019, 05:29:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Right, Meg. It's still a learning process for many of the good Catholics at 1P5. I just want to note even Dr. Lamont still agrees that Abp. Lefebvre was the Athanasius of our time, which is what Fr. Gleize was trying to prove, since these errors go back about 50 to 60 years.

    I think anyone who reads the SSPX site will see that the criticisms of the Amazon Synod etc have gone on. Dr. Lamont's letter does critique the errors being spread today. But the SSPX criticism of the method being followed now is mainly the unwillingness to criticize anything more than 6 years old, when a careful look at least the last 60 years is necessary. For e.g. Rev. Fr. Pagliarani, Superior General, said recently, to the question, "In your opinion, what should these prelates and faithful do who have at heart the future of the Church?

    First of all, they should have the lucidity and courage to recognize that there is a continuity between the teachings of the Council, the popes of the post-conciliar era, and the current pontificate. Citing the magisterium of "Saint" John Paul II, for example, to oppose Pope Francis's innovations is a very bad remedy, one that is doomed to failure from the outset. A good doctor cannot simply use a few stitches to close a wound without first evacuating the infection inside the wound. Far from despising these efforts, it is a matter of charity to indicate where the root of the problems lies.

    To give a concrete example of this contradiction, it is sufficient to mention one name among others: that of Cardinal Müller. He is presently the most virulent opponent of Amoris lætitia, the Instrumentum laboris, and the Curia's reform project. He uses very strong language, even talking about "breaking with Tradition." And yet, this cardinal who has the fortitude to publicly denounce these errors is the same one who wanted to impose the acceptance of the whole Council and the post-conciliar magisterium on the Society of Saint Pius X (in continuity with his predecessors and successors at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). Regardless of the Society and its positions, Cardinal Müller’s criticism, which focuses only on the symptoms without going back to their cause, gives rise to a most damaging and illogical situation." https://sspx.org/en/church-its-head-50632

    See also: Although arguing at great length that the cause of the disaster of this pontificate lies squarely at the feet of the Second Vatican Council, the Superior General is not dismissing the radical nature of the current pontificate. He describes Amoris Laetitia in the following dramatic fashion: “Amoris lætitia represents, in the history of the Church in recent years, what the atomic bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are in the modern history of Japan: humanely speaking, the damage is irreparable. It is undoubtedly the most revolutionary act of Pope Francis.” https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2019/09/17/a-true-doctor-of-souls-diagnoses-the-cancer-that-produced-the-malignant-tumor-of-the-pope-francis-pontificate-an-interview-of-father-davide-pagliarani/

    I think there's an important conversation to be had, but maybe it should be engaged in a little differently. Namely, recognizing that the SSPX has been right in making the criticisms it has been making for nearly 50 years now, and that the just basis of those criticism is now finally at last being more widely acknowledged by many.

    It's good that Dr. Lamont agrees that +ABL was the St. Athanasius of our time. My problem with Dr. Lamont is that he wants Fr. Gleize to convict Francis as a heretic, and he seems to cite +ABL as a example of why this should be done. But anyone who truly knows what +ABL stood for will know that he did not refer to the conciliar popes "Heretics," except on rare occasion. Doesn't Dr. Lamont understand this? What is important is to CLEARLY elucidate the errors and heresies of Francis and others in the conciliar church. It's not enough to simply strive to have him proclaimed as a heretic, as the sedevacantists and sedewhatevers want to do (and Dr. Lamont).

    Fr. Pagliarani gives a few eloquent examples regarding the Crisis in the Church. But he does not give specifics. That's one of the big problems. In the history of the Church, heresies have been dealt with by specifically naming the heresies and condemning them; often in Councils. Unfortunately, few in the conciliar church are condemning errors/heresies. As I keep on saying - the SSPX doesn't give specific examples or clearly outline the errors/heresies of Francis and others in the conciliar church. They have given up on this. The errors/heresies need to be addressed CLEARLY and condemned for what they are. That doesn't mean that the SSPX should declare Francis as a heretic. That would be beyond their purview, and not in keeping with the legacy of +ABL. They are traitors to the legacy and work of +ABL. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13936
    • Reputation: +9079/-1639
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 'Open Letter' author criticizes the SSPX for attacking the said Letter
    « Reply #20 on: October 25, 2019, 08:18:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • …But anyone who truly knows what +ABL stood for will know that he did not refer to the conciliar popes "Heretics," except on rare occasion. …

    He didn't "except" when he did.


    Psycho harpy.


    Quote
    Woe to you that rue wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits. -Isaias 5:20-21
    Woe to them that are of a double heart and to wicked lips, and to the hands that do evil, and to the sinner that goeth on the earth two ways. –Ecclesiasticus 2:14

    No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. –Matthew 6:24

    That with one mind, and with one mouth, you may glorify God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. –Romans 15:6

    The double-minded man is inconstant in all his ways. -James 1:8