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Author Topic: Understanding the Stafki Incident  (Read 4090 times)

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Understanding the Stafki Incident
« on: December 20, 2022, 11:18:23 PM »
  How should the faithful (me for example) should understand what happened?  Certainly, he had all the graces available to a Catholic and was raised in an assumably pious family.  So, those graces could not prevent him from committing the worst of crimes?  

  He explained he gave into lust, but I believe it goes beyond lust - a child who he was related to was the victim.  If it was demonic possession, why wasn’t he protected by all the sacredness, prayers, and again graces that surrounded him?  Could it be an extreme weakness of character?  But even then, that doesn’t seem to account for the severity of what occurred. 

  Was the vetting process in bestowing holy orders corrupt?  How should a Catholic understand why someone so bathed in tradition could commit such an act? 

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Understanding the Stafki Incident
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2022, 12:03:28 AM »
Two words, and "Free Will" is one of them.

You can give someone every advantage, increase their chances to the Nth degree, but you can't decide for them to choose good or evil. That's the essence of Free Will.

Remember, atheists believe that we have no Free Will. They think that if we knew everything about someone, if we could scan their brain, we could predict what they'd do with 100% accuracy. NOT TRUE.

Humans are *always* capable of surprising you, going against the grain, going against what you'd expect, what's normal -- because Free Will.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Understanding the Stafki Incident
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2022, 11:35:55 AM »
You can give someone every advantage, increase their chances to the Nth degree, but you can't decide for them to choose good or evil. That's the essence of Free Will.

One Word:  Judas.  Talk about someone who had all the graces available, as he was in constant close proximity to God Himself, and the other Apostles, etc.

I've talked about this before on other threads.  Parents can do everything "right", but none of it is a guarantee of anything due to ... free will.  We know of course that Our Lord did "everything right" with regard to His formation of Judas.

With that said, there's probably also some psychological stuff that went into it.

So between environment, temperament, experiences, psychological tendencies / issues (some rooted in physiological causes, others not), and throw in the magical unpredictable exercise of free will ... and there are no guarantees.

Nevertheless, even in the case of Stafki, we have to keep in mind that if we had been born into his family, with his temperament, his psychology, had all his experiences, etc. ... would we have ended up any different?  God alone knows, and this is the true sense of "who am I to judge?"  We obviously judge WHAT he did as gravely sinful, immoral, deviant, etc.  But God alone will sit in judgment of him with regard to his degree of sin and culpability, etc.  So when Bergoglio abused "Who am I to judge?", it was in line with the same error that appears in Amoris Laetitia, where some lack or diminution of culpability in the internal forum can be used to justify the sins committed in the external.  While God can judge a diminution of culpability in the internal forum, even we can't do that for ourselves.  Much less can we use a diminution of culpability for past sins committed to justify continuing to commit the same sin.

But, anyway, there's no reason to judge the Stafki parents as if somehow responsible for what their son ended up doing.  We don't know.  Only God knows.  As Matthew said, it's entirely possible that they did everything right, but that their son just made a series of sinful decisions on his own that led to this, combined with some obvious psychological problems.  When dealing with incestuous pedophilia, there has to be a psychological issue going on there ... whether he suffered from some issues related to his physiology or whether these psychological issues were caused by some past sinful decisions, God alone knows.  Yes, I disagree with the Dimonds that all tendencies to immorality are simply the result of sin.  We see a huge correlation that many sodomites, especially pedophile sodomites, were themselves abused earlier in life ... and that undoubtedly leads to psychological issues that contribute to their tendencies later in life.  Some people, for instance, are prone to alcoholism, whereas others can drink to excess for years and not become alcoholics.

Re: Understanding the Stafki Incident
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2022, 12:57:48 PM »
There was a French noble named de Rais who was from one of France's best families. He was marshal of the French army and fought alongside St. Joan of Arc. A patron of the arts and builder of churches. Toward the end of his life he took up an interest in occultism and started to lure children into his dungeon where he would sadistically torture, rape, and murder them. His crimes are so horrific I wouldn't have blamed historians for not writing them down. His story goes to show that literally anyone is capable of literally anything. This is true even when a person is raised and educated in a strong Catholic culture.
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Realistically, people who come from good backgrounds do not go from being pious to debauchedly wicked overnight. It happens slowly over time, and usually for a lack of mortification. If you stop being able to say no to candy bars, given enough time, it'll be hard to say no to alcohol. Indulge alcohol enough and custody of the eyes becomes harder to keep. Custody of the eyes becomes harder to keep, and pornography is suddenly in play. With pornography in play, pretty much all else is up for grabs.  This is just an example trajectory, of course. The point is just that without regular moral vigilance, the moral sense dull and acts that were previously unthinkable to a person appear as legitimate options.

Re: Understanding the Stafki Incident
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2022, 02:14:55 PM »
  How should the faithful (me for example) should understand what happened?  Certainly, he had all the graces available to a Catholic and was raised in an assumably pious family.  So, those graces could not prevent him from committing the worst of crimes? 

  He explained he gave into lust, but I believe it goes beyond lust - a child who he was related to was the victim.  If it was demonic possession, why wasn’t he protected by all the sacredness, prayers, and again graces that surrounded him?  Could it be an extreme weakness of character?  But even then, that doesn’t seem to account for the severity of what occurred.

  Was the vetting process in bestowing holy orders corrupt?  How should a Catholic understand why someone so bathed in tradition could commit such an act?
How about infiltration.... you know "The Plot Against the Church"