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Offline chrstnoel1

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TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
« on: October 17, 2012, 12:31:29 AM »
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  • Came across this from Radio Christianity.

    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJÁN - 7 OCT 2012


    SERMON OF BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJAN
     

    7 October 2012
     

    Notes:
     

    1st. It is only audible from the minute 3: 11.
     

    2nd. Transcription: from the 19th minute.
     

    3rd. As underlined in the text is ours, to highlight words that Bishop Fellay stresses known to pronounce them.
     

    4th. Added between square brackets is to clarify the syntax.
     

    5th . The transcription is literal (except some few obvious words, 4 or 5 times; e.g. in the 40 minute, when he said )
     "the validity of the traditional, new mass" or "massliceidad " instead of "legality".
     

    6th. Painted in yellow is what has most attracted us attention.
     

    7th. At minute 34: 58 (see page 4) one thing seemed strange: the sentence begins with "produced..." as if missing something before (what is "which produced"?) and, immediately, you must first 8 seconds of sounds and voices of the place, something that does not occur at any time.
     

    Transcription from the 19th minute
     

    19: 40
     

    Us, Dear faithful, have the same test. This time, not with the physical body of our Lord, but with his mystical body, the Church.
     

    19: 50
     

    Again, we see the Church, the Church crucified. This church, the Catholic Church, we are required to believe, profess their divine, totally supernatural character in its essence. Divine in your head which is our Lord same God, with privileges belonging only to a divine origin: infallibility, the indefectibilty, ever the devil may destroy the Church, single, the only, true that you can save... and that saves. You can sanctify and it sanctifies. This church is what we see in front of us almost dead. What we perceive with our senses of the Church today, really are perceptions of a corpse, one that is so, so wounded, that [is] almost dead.
     

    And again, lots of people are tempted to take only a part the divine part, either the human part. But take the two, which are so contradictory, that weighs. A test, the hardest, the most dangerous thing that you can imagine, is that God allows, we suffer.
     

    And on the cross, there are people who insists so much on faith that they deny the reality. They say: "the Church not delude itself, the Church cannot say, teach errors." The Church can do something wrong. "Then everything he has done, everything that happens in the Church today, must be fair, good, true". It is what we say in Rome now. When we present objections, problems of what happens in reality, with this famous Council Vatican II say: "No error." It cannot be, it cannot be. Because the Church can not say errors. "Is the Church that has made the Council, then the Council is without error".
     

    Or the mass, the new mass. With so many scandals that have led so many and so many faithful, priests, to the loss of faith in the real presence of our Lord, in the truth of the sacrifice, tell us: 'No.' "No, cannot be".
     

    During the last visit I made in the Congregation of the faith talking about mass and the effects of the new mass I have facts. And a fact that is very strong, precise, the loss of faith of priests. Many. I give you two very recent examples. One in Germany, in the Diocese of Trier. Our script, is the Vicar General, who did. The Vicar General of the Diocese of Trier, said that 80% of priests do not believe in the real presence of our Lord. And very recently, Cardinal Pell, in Sydney (Australia) asked their priests with anonymous responses. Seventy-eight percent. Seventy-eight percent of priests have responded that they do not believe in the real presence. Then I give examples, these examples... what answer me, what I answered in the Congregation of the faith? Say me no, it is not the consequence of the mass; is that were badly prepared: a bad preparation; but not the mass. For me it is worse: they tell me that they were poorly trained, meaning that the seminar was wrong. But just to give an example.
     

    26: 55
     

    On behalf of the faith, then a point you need to believe, OK. Be careful! We are required to manifest the Holiness of the Church, that the Church is indefectible, which is infallible, it is true, care!
     

    But there is a reality.
     

    27: 30
     

    The other temptation is to insist so much on the reality to be deny, reject, the implications of faith. Those seeing the disaster, say: "That may not be the Church, impossible." That is not the Church. Why? Because he died. Because it is full of mistakes, full of scandals, full of everything that leads souls to hell. 'That the Church can do it'. That it is, again, a true. And then they reject, reject the Pope, they reject hierarchy, they say that "that which we have in front of us, bah!, not true, it is not the true Church, we are the true Church". False. False, as a claim against the cross, because Jesus dies, is not God.
     

    29: 00
     

    See how the test is difficult? It is difficult to maintain both, the two points, which seem so contradictory, unbearable, to San Pedro the announcement of the passion and death of our Lord.
     

    29: 34
     

    Yes, now the Church suffers. We could ask to what extent can go this suffering. Extent to which God allows or you want to keep the mystical body condition of the physical body. To what extent are going in this tribulation of the Church. Are we going to go to death?, ask. It seems that not. Faith tells us that not. In La Salette, our Lady spoke of an eclipse of the Church, as if the Church is gone, also saying that the Antichrist will be reigning in the place where you need to see the vicar of Christ. Mystery. Great, great mystery.
     

    But again: the only way of staying in the truth, is to accept the two: the sides of the faith entirely without breaking a part and also the truth. The two. And those who want to explain, caution! Care, because many times that the Church, as our Lord, we forget they are mysteries. A mystery is a truth, is not a confusion. When we talk of a mystery is something rare, curious, mysterious. But when we talk about a mystery of faith, we speak of a truth. A truth so light that it is too light for our poor eyes. But not in confusion. Too high for the perception of us as creatures.
     

    32: 55
     

    Yes. When we talk about what happened last year, we are within this test.
     

    How they operate, how you react in front to the Church, to Rome? How to do? Very clearly, by bringing together the two elements. Not only one. The sedevacantist deny a part. "Ecclesia Dei", and the modernists deny the other. There are those who say "all this reality is bad, then there is no church, no Pope". Others who say: "the Church not delude itself, then everything is good, we have to follow and accept everything". And the two are not true. Necessary to distinguish very carefully.
     

    34: 00
     

    It must be recognized that this Church continues today, save. Us, if we are saved, is also thanks to this church. Really. A church that in this state of terrible, injury continues without problems, to sanctify, to communicate the sanctifying grace. Because our human Church is God is our Lord, that makes this church his instrument. An incredibly weak instrument, but an instrument.
     

    34: 58
     

    (8 seconds of noises of the place without a voice; and then continues on the second 35: 06)
     

    He produced enough confusion, fear, truth. Why? Because much of what happened it was poorly presented, counterfeit. For example, pretending that the Superior General wants to make an agreement with the modernists, wants to sell the fraternity by accepting the Council all. There is nothing true in this is not true! Simply put, it is not true. Our position is always the same. Exactly the position of Archbishop Lefebvre. Just as well.
     

    But I need a time to prove what really Rome wanted it more accurately as possible. Because it was a surprise very, very big: after two years of discussions in which I was very clear we do not agree, it was a great surprise to see Rome making a movement, a proposal to recognize the fraternity. How is it possible? We do not agree and Rome said "we are going to recognize you". How can it be?
     

    37: 00
     

    There is a mystery, more human, but very curious. Have to say, is more, that during this time I have received two, thus, say two lines of information from Rome. An official and an unofficial line, but verified. Very clearly verified, that is certain. And the two do not match. They do not match. According to the official, it is very clear that it claims to the fraternity to accept the Council, accepting the new mass. According to the unofficial, it was another language that insisted on the possibility of discussing the Council. And then, a difficult job [is] to verify "where they come from?" "is the source is official, is not official, that these new features that come" ??
     

    And at the end, we can say, that we consider as very probable and almost certain that really the Holy Father wants to recognize the fraternity as a Catholic because she is Catholic. At the same time, because of their personal perception of forehead to the Council, he demands that we recognize, says it, that the Council is part of the tradition. And we say "Pardon?" The Council, are traditional? "The facts say otherwise". During fifty years of life of the Church we have heard, seen and tested so far that it is exactly the opposite of the tradition. How can pretend that the Council was part of tradition?
     

    40: 34
     

    And by the mass: you need to not only recognize the validity of the new mass, when it is held according to the liturgical and books with the intention of doing what the Church does. No, not only the validity, but also the legality. Legality that says the permit is good. And here we say again: not. The facts say otherwise.
     

    Then at the end we can say that there is quite clearly.
     

    41: 31
     

    The other element which is an obstacle that is also very clear, is the opposition; the opposition of the modern. Opposition against the fraternity; because they understand well that accept the fraternity as "Catholic" is rejecting all the reforms from the Council so far. Because the two can not coexist. Lol
     

    And so is our situation, always the same. What happened, to me it's indicative of something that takes place in the Church, and very interesting. That gives us hope for the future. Is that the present Pope has done something, you want to correct something, but with much grief because there is too much opposition.
     

    But is also that there is a movement especially in young people who want to, you want to reject the modern things and return to the traditional. It is a rather muddled movement because they do not know what was the Church before; but they are frustrated that come, disaster. And they are looking for and look to tradition. And that gives, gives hope for the future really. How many years do you expect? Patience, say patience. It may be, for optimists, five years. Probably, most likely 10 years before seeing some improvement or at least the disappearance of the generation of the Council. Young people do not have this bonding emotional, visceral, by the Council. They are more open; they will be easier to work. But, what will remain of the Church?
     

    Then, should continue. Very clearly.
     

    44: 25
     

    And finally the third point of this sermon, slightly shorter: Maria.
     

    This pilgrimage is to the mother of God, our mother, our Lady of Luján. If there is someone who can teach us because she has lived the most deeply the mystery of the cross, is she, is she. Together in a way so, so deep into the mystery of the cross. So deep that the Church herself tells us that Mary at the foot of the cross is offered to martyrdom. It is a spiritual martyrdom, it is martyrdom in love. Maria, nobody bothered it to the cross but offered, like Jesus. Both, therefore, deserves the title of "co-Redeemer". It means that she herself under Jesus, has offered both to merit the salvation of all men of the world. Co-Redeemer... The pain of Mary at the cross sea, can not imagine. You need a special grace, but theology tells us that Yes, has received it this grace. It is a mother's pain on the cross, our mother. That most pleased God, God has given you this gift. The cross is a sign of love. So few times we accept that. They know the history of Santa Teresa de Ávila that in a time of rain was with his car upside down with all the background and the car up, she in the water and everything else mess. She heard a voice "it is so I try to my friends" and she said looking a bit above "I understand why they have so many few".
     

    And, Yes. Mystery. Great mystery. Each cross we receive is in fact an invitation of our Lord - more than an invitation is a participation-the mystery of the redemption. When we feel us weaknesses, sufferings, we must remember that. Yes, it's true! Is at that moment that we are the most powerful; We do the greatest good souls, to the Church and to us: when we accept the cross in all its forms: moral, spiritual and physical suffering. When we are discouraged, when we think that we can no more, we are judged by all, at this time, this time is the most precious in which really we can do more, joined our Lord on the cross.
     

    This pilgrimage, to Mary help us to understand a bit more, say a little more with a love a little warmer, a 'yes' when it happens; and it happens every day.
     

    50: 18
     

    To overcome this crisis of the Church, for his victory, for the glory of God. Amen.
     

    In the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies


    Online Nadir

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 03:36:53 AM »
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  • How about a translation? :jester:
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline PAT317

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    Offline Ethelred

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 08:33:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    How about a translation? :jester:


    OK, here's a Schmoogle-translation. Schmoogle is a new artificial intelligence robot translator being able to translate any politician or liberal talk into pure plain-text:

    Quote from: Schmoogle-translator
    My dear sheep... blah-blah... Crisis... blah... We have to... And let's not forget... blah-blah... But we must also... blah... The Holy Father alone... blah-blah... is genuine... blah... A very, very limited religious liberty... blah-blah... Vatican II ... traditional... blah... I would hope so! ... blah-blah... The Holy Father wants it to happen now... blah... I have very very mixed feelings about... blah-blah... And if we are called to help the Holy Father in that, so be it... blah-blah... The move of the Holy Father, because it really comes from him, is genuine. If this recognition happens, it's thanks to him, definitely, and to him alone... blah...


    If you don't like it, blame Schmoogle!

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 08:43:30 AM »
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  • Thank you for this, chrstnoel1, at least I can say I read it.

    I've read his sermon and it has made no difference to me: he explains nothing.

    If I didn't know better, I would think that B16 wrote it for him.  It's the same kind
    of style, fuzzy language: halfway between something and something else, but what?



    The pain of Mary at the cross sea, can not imagine. You need a special grace, but theology tells us that Yes, has received it this grace. It is a mother's pain on the cross, our mother. That most pleased God, God has given you this gift. The cross is a sign of love. So few times we accept that. They know the history of Santa Teresa de Ávila that in a time of rain was with his car upside down with all the background and the car up, she in the water and everything else mess. She heard a voice "it is so I try to my friends" and she said looking a bit above "I understand why they have so many few".



    Saint Teresa of Avila was in a car upside down?  Since when did they have cars in
    the 16th century?  Somebody has got their "history" rather mixed up.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline trento

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 09:24:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Thank you for this, chrstnoel1, at least I can say I read it.

    I've read his sermon and it has made no difference to me: he explains nothing.

    If I didn't know better, I would think that B16 wrote it for him.  It's the same kind
    of style, fuzzy language: halfway between something and something else, but what?



    The pain of Mary at the cross sea, can not imagine. You need a special grace, but theology tells us that Yes, has received it this grace. It is a mother's pain on the cross, our mother. That most pleased God, God has given you this gift. The cross is a sign of love. So few times we accept that. They know the history of Santa Teresa de Ávila that in a time of rain was with his car upside down with all the background and the car up, she in the water and everything else mess. She heard a voice "it is so I try to my friends" and she said looking a bit above "I understand why they have so many few".



    Saint Teresa of Avila was in a car upside down?  Since when did they have cars in
    the 16th century?  Somebody has got their "history" rather mixed up.

     :roll-laugh1: Can someone who speaks Spanish please do a proper translation rather than rely on Scmoogle?

    Offline Columba

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 10:59:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: chrstnoel1
    much of what happened was misrepresented, falsified. Pretending for example, that the Superior General wants to make a deal with the modernists, wants to sell the Fraternity Council accepting everything else. There is no truth in this! Not true! Simply not true. Our position is always the same. Exactly the position of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    +Fellay did not try to make a deal with the modernists? Then who DID he try to make a deal with? +Fellay himself stated in an interview the modernist bishops would have veto power over whether the SSPX could found new churches, schools, priories, seminaries, etc.

    Now the bishop doth protest too much.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 11:17:18 AM »
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  • Quote
    Our position is always the same. Exactly the position of Archbishop Lefebvre.


    No, Bishop Fellay. You do not hold the same position as Archbishop Lefebvre. This is extremely obvious.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline PAT317

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 02:25:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    Quote from: Nadir
    How about a translation? :jester:


    OK, here's a Schmoogle-translation. Schmoogle is a new artificial intelligence robot translator being able to translate any politician or liberal talk into pure plain-text:

    Quote from: Schmoogle-translator
    My dear sheep... blah-blah... Crisis... blah... We have to... And let's not forget... blah-blah... But we must also... blah... The Holy Father alone... blah-blah... is genuine... blah... A very, very limited religious liberty... blah-blah... Vatican II ... traditional... blah... I would hope so! ... blah-blah... The Holy Father wants it to happen now... blah... I have very very mixed feelings about... blah-blah... And if we are called to help the Holy Father in that, so be it... blah-blah... The move of the Holy Father, because it really comes from him, is genuine. If this recognition happens, it's thanks to him, definitely, and to him alone... blah...


    If you don't like it, blame Schmoogle!


    Schmoogle missed a few phrases:  
    "I may say that..."  
    "I really have the impression"  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 03:07:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote
    Our position is always the same. Exactly the position of Archbishop Lefebvre.


    No, Bishop Fellay.

    You do not hold the same position as Archbishop Lefebvre.

    This is extremely obvious.

    Easy for you to say, SS.   You obviously didn't miss your Kindergarten class........


    I think Bp. Fellay was absent the day his class did "same / different" in Kindergarten!

    I would say "HAHAHA" but it's not funny.  :mad:

    Now, he's been following the ruminations of B16 a little too avidly, and he has
    started to exhibit the symptoms thereof, namely, a conspicuous denial of the
    principle of non-contradiction.








    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Online Nadir

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 04:00:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    Quote from: Nadir
    How about a translation? :jester:


    OK, here's a Schmoogle-translation. Schmoogle is a new artificial intelligence robot translator being able to translate any politician or liberal talk into pure plain-text:

    Quote from: Schmoogle-translator
    My dear sheep... blah-blah... Crisis... blah... We have to... And let's not forget... blah-blah... But we must also... blah... The Holy Father alone... blah-blah... is genuine... blah... A very, very limited religious liberty... blah-blah... Vatican II ... traditional... blah... I would hope so! ... blah-blah... The Holy Father wants it to happen now... blah... I have very very mixed feelings about... blah-blah... And if we are called to help the Holy Father in that, so be it... blah-blah... The move of the Holy Father, because it really comes from him, is genuine. If this recognition happens, it's thanks to him, definitely, and to him alone... blah...


    If you don't like it, blame Schmoogle!


    :smoke-pot: :boxer: :pop: :roll-laugh1:

    Excellent translation, Ethelred - and you a native German speaker.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Incredulous

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 08:39:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    Quote from: Nadir
    How about a translation? :jester:


    OK, here's a Schmoogle-translation. Schmoogle is a new artificial intelligence robot translator being able to translate any politician or liberal talk into pure plain-text:

    Quote from: Schmoogle-translator
    My dear sheep... blah-blah... Crisis... blah... We have to... And let's not forget... blah-blah... But we must also... blah... The Holy Father alone... blah-blah... is genuine... blah... A very, very limited religious liberty... blah-blah... Vatican II ... traditional... blah... I would hope so! ... blah-blah... The Holy Father wants it to happen now... blah... I have very very mixed feelings about... blah-blah... And if we are called to help the Holy Father in that, so be it... blah-blah... The move of the Holy Father, because it really comes from him, is genuine. If this recognition happens, it's thanks to him, definitely, and to him alone... blah...


    If you don't like it, blame Schmoogle!


    No, on the contrary, this is meaningful data.
    I recall reading an article on Smoogle technology in "High Tech Audio" magazine.

    It uses a low frequency sensor to analyze micro-vibrations coming from the speakers larynx.  Smoogle technology is capable of translating the voice's language and intepreting the speakers mental state (i.e., nervousness, restfulness, etc).

    Any translated sections notated with a "blah" indicates of a serious mental lapse, or as the say in America... "a senior moment".  

    Therefore, from this Smoogle translation, we have direct evidence that Msgr. Fellay is in need of relief from his duties and a long, long vacation.

    Thank you for this important report Ethelred We must forward to the SSPX District Superiors right away!




          The Smoogle portable translator


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Ethelred

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 02:23:57 AM »
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  • Just hilarious. :-)

    But seriously, thank you Incredulous for the technical details on the Smoogle translators!

    Could we organise a centralized buying for your shown Smoogle portable translator to get a bulk discount ?

    Because I think that several district headquarters and SSPX mass centers should be verified with a Smoogle portable translator for their blah-blah factor and to finally see what they really talk about. In particular given the upcoming expulsion of Bishop Williamson, which surely will make very, very many priors and superiors to announce another incredible blah-blah distancing...

    Offline Incredulous

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 03:57:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    Just hilarious. :-)

    But seriously, thank you Incredulous for the technical details on the Smoogle translators!

    Could we organise a centralized buying for your shown Smoogle portable translator to get a bulk discount ?

    Because I think that several district headquarters and SSPX mass centers should be verified with a Smoogle portable translator for their blah-blah factor and to finally see what they really talk about. In particular given the upcoming expulsion of Bishop Williamson, which surely will make very, very many priors and superiors to announce another incredible blah-blah distancing...



    Good idea!
    I'll check with the Smoogle distributor in New York to see if we can get a "traditonal Catholic' discount.
    I can see Father Rostandnow... self-consciously squirming at the pulpit as he speaks into the microphone.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    TRANSCRIPT OF THE SERMON BY BISHOP FELLAY IN LUJN - 7 OCT 2012
    « Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 04:43:05 PM »
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  • That sad part is that is all about money and power and sspx real estate.  If Rome was in negotiations with SSPX then why is Rome still closing down schools and church.  Mergers and renamed communities like a business going broke and files for bankruptcy and reopens under name and combined assets.  
    May God bless you and keep you