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Author Topic: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?  (Read 5610 times)

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Offline Always

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Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
« on: July 13, 2023, 02:40:54 PM »
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  • Can anyone provide any background (ordination, episcopal consecration) on these two individuals?  
    https://www.sacredheartorlando.com/about-us/


    Bp. Louis Montelongo
    Pastor




    Fr. Jonathan Derrington
    Assistant Pastor



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #1 on: July 13, 2023, 02:55:34 PM »
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  • They just look invalid to me :laugh1:


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2023, 02:56:33 PM »
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  • This thread might be helpful.  That chapel and the priests are discussed further down.

    Visiting Florida - page 1 - The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #3 on: July 13, 2023, 02:57:07 PM »
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  • They just look invalid to me :laugh1:

    Although I was joking, someone once brought up some reservations regarding the validity of the consecration of Bishop Dolan (the typical +Thuc line stuff).  So, a woman who overheard chimed in:  "I was at the consecration of Bishop Dolan.  I know it was valid, because I could feel the Holy Spirit there."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #4 on: July 13, 2023, 03:02:02 PM »
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  • So, reviewing my own comments on the thread to which 2V linked, Bishop Montelongo is in the same line as Bishop Webster, the Henneberry line.  It would seem valid to me, and the major questionmark was regarding the validity of the priestly ordination of Bishop Terrasson, since he had come from some Old Catholic group.  But someone once produced a certificate indicating the Terrasson was in fact conditionally ordained to the priesthood by Clemente Dominguez (of Palmar fame).  Dominguez was most certainly validly ordained and consecrated, but I would have some concerns about whether he could validly confer the Sacraments, given that he had zero known clerical training, and his grasp of Latin was entirely unknown ... having been an insurance salesman before he began receiving his "visions".


    Offline Always

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #5 on: July 13, 2023, 04:02:20 PM »
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  • This thread might be helpful.  That chapel and the priests are discussed further down.

    Visiting Florida - page 1 - The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)

    Thanks much for the informative thread, as seemingly convoluted a situation as the question of validity as pertains to Bp.(?)  Montelongo  appears to be!

    I have it from a credible source that Fr. Chazal (although I have not as of yet received a confirmation from Fr. Chazal) does not accept the validity of priestly orders for either of the two individuals.

    Offline Always

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #6 on: July 13, 2023, 04:05:04 PM »
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  • They just look invalid to me :laugh1:

    No comment other than to say that poor St. Peter may have looked invalid to some as he hung upside down on the cross.

    Offline Always

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #7 on: July 13, 2023, 04:06:07 PM »
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  • Although I was joking, someone once brought up some reservations regarding the validity of the consecration of Bishop Dolan (the typical +Thuc line stuff).  So, a woman who overheard chimed in:  "I was at the consecration of Bishop Dolan.  I know it was valid, because I could feel the Holy Spirit there."
    That's a good one! :laugh1:


    Offline Always

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2023, 04:09:48 PM »
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  • So, reviewing my own comments on the thread to which 2V linked, Bishop Montelongo is in the same line as Bishop Webster, the Henneberry line.  It would seem valid to me, and the major questionmark was regarding the validity of the priestly ordination of Bishop Terrasson, since he had come from some Old Catholic group.  But someone once produced a certificate indicating the Terrasson was in fact conditionally ordained to the priesthood by Clemente Dominguez (of Palmar fame).  Dominguez was most certainly validly ordained and consecrated, but I would have some concerns about whether he could validly confer the Sacraments, given that he had zero known clerical training, and his grasp of Latin was entirely unknown ... having been an insurance salesman before he began receiving his "visions".

    I couldn't agree more with you on some of your wise insights expressed in some of the things you reflected upon in that thread Lad.  They were superb!

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #9 on: July 13, 2023, 04:26:56 PM »
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  • We went there a few years ago on vacation, simply because it was Sunday and it wasn't feasible for us to get to the SSPX in Sanford.  (Not a reflection on that chapel's merits or demerits, just a need to go to Mass in an unfamiliar area.)  It's in a shabby neighborhood, and I felt bad for them, as they used recorded music, kind of a cheesy effect.  

    They do the best they can with what they have to work with.  At least it's the Traditional Latin Mass.

    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #10 on: July 13, 2023, 06:53:59 PM »
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  • So, reviewing my own comments on the thread to which 2V linked, Bishop Montelongo is in the same line as Bishop Webster, the Henneberry line.  It would seem valid to me, and the major questionmark was regarding the validity of the priestly ordination of Bishop Terrasson, since he had come from some Old Catholic group.  But someone once produced a certificate indicating the Terrasson was in fact conditionally ordained to the priesthood by Clemente Dominguez (of Palmar fame).  Dominguez was most certainly validly ordained and consecrated, but I would have some concerns about whether he could validly confer the Sacraments, given that he had zero known clerical training, and his grasp of Latin was entirely unknown ... having been an insurance salesman before he began receiving his "visions".
    Bp. Montelongo was ordained to the priesthood by Bp. Henneberry but was consecrated by Bp. Patrick Taylor.  Fr. Derrington was ordained to the priesthood by Bp. Taylor.  


    Offline Always

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2023, 09:56:35 PM »
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  • Bp. Montelongo was ordained to the priesthood by Bp. Henneberry but was consecrated by Bp. Patrick Taylor.  Fr. Derrington was ordained to the priesthood by Bp. Taylor. 
    Thank you!

    Offline BrianA

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #12 on: July 14, 2023, 12:09:27 AM »
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  • They just look invalid to me :laugh1:
    I said the exact same thing. It's funny how you can see it.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #13 on: July 14, 2023, 05:55:07 AM »
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  • So, was it determined that the clerics in the OP are valid priests/bishops?  I'm finding the posts confusing (too many names thrown about...a visual would be much easier to follow).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Chapel in Orlando, Florida?
    « Reply #14 on: July 14, 2023, 09:30:08 AM »
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  • Well, given the Taylor connection, I found this online.  I'd be somewhat leary here.
    Quote
    Bishop Patrick Taylor was originally an Orthodox priest and later converted to Roman Catholicism in life. He wouldn't need to be conditionally ordained since his priesthood comes directly from the schismatic Eastern Orthodox Church. He offers the traditional Latin Mass and identifies himself as a traditional Roman Catholic like the Society of St. Pius X and the CMRI.

    Many traditional Catholics doubt Bishop Taylor's validity as a bishop because it comes "dubious lines".

    There were 3 bishops who ordained Bishop Taylor as a bishop:

    Bishop Michael Boucher (principal consecrator): Ordained by Bishop Andre Barbeau, a former classmate of Cardinal Edouard Gagnon, the prefect for the Pontifical Council of the Family. Barbeau left the Roman Catholic Church in 1968 and allowed himself to be ordained a bishop by Old Catholics in Canada. He later established a schismatic sect called the "Charismatic Catholic Church in Canada". Barbeau used a French-translation of the 1962 Roman Pontifical to ordain his bishops and priests. In 2002, the late Cardinal Edouard Gagnon personally investigated Barbeau's line as valid because it comes Old Catholic prelate, Bishop Arnold Matthew hαɾɾιs.

    Bishop Denis Michel Garrison: Garrison served as co-consecrator. An Orthodox bishop, his line comes Archbishop Walter Myron Propheta, the Orthodox bishop of New York. Propheta was a friend J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the FBI and a personal contemporary of Cardinal Francis Spellman and his successor, Cardinal Terrence Cooke. Cardinal Spellman recognized Archbishop Propheta's episcopacy as valid and hence this extends to Bishop Denis Michel Garrison.

    Bishop Paul Dolan: Dolan served as co-consecrator. He's an Orthodox bishop and was ordained in the episcopacy by Garrison.

    Bishop Taylor carries a Duarte Costa line because Denis Michel Garrison's lineage had co-consecrators who were of the Duarte Costa lineage. However, a great majority of the bishops in Garrison's lineage are Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox.

    Some combination of Old Catholic, Duarte Costa, and Orthodox.