Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo  (Read 9734 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kiwiboy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
  • Reputation: +217/-455
  • Gender: Male
Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2018, 09:54:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • These Irishmen are such emotional chaps:

    1) The sede who was teaching in Econe was teaching in the 1970s, at a time when the world had not yet seen their true colors...and was later expelled for "causing trouble;"

    2) But he, like all sedes, was so sure of himself (and full of himself) that he went and got himself consecrated a bishop...if it was valid;

    3) BTW, way to have twice as many down-thumbs as thumbs-up: It means most people think you are a total jackass.

    Whatungarongaro te tangata toitū te whenua

    As man disappears from sight, the land remains
     - Maori proverb


    True that many of them cause trouble, but they have been tolerated nonetheless since then also. My point still stands.

    It doesn't mean you have to go to the opposite extreme of trying to create a parallel church, which one user made clear already you want to do.

    Bit rich to try to make out that I am being the one who is a jackass....

    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31200
    • Reputation: +27117/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #46 on: April 24, 2018, 10:46:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • He thinks that Bishop Williamson sits at home and listens to Beethoven all day.

    That is what he said on his website.

    His forum failed because he and sean are partially mentally unstable, and also very closed minded to new ideas (such as flat earth, but not limited to that.)

    This is the crux of the problem.

    Samuel, based on where he lives, has got to be at least part Irish. But what I know for sure is that he's big on action and is probably Choleric in temperament (a trait he shares with Sean Johnson, I might add)

    Now the action part CAN BE good, when paired with patience. But all too many "action" types are just doing it because that's the only way to satisfy their temperament. They are doing it for purely human reasons -- for example, Fr. Pfeiffer. No one can say he wasn't "getting stuff done" and a man of action. The problem was, he had no patience and was overly attached to his own desires and ambitions. His own ambition got mixed up in his Catholic Action, to the point that he started embracing a fraudulent "bishop" and multiple priests tainted by scandal of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, perversion, etc.

    The devil also tempted him (successfully) to attack his fellow priests and even bishops, when they went against his desires and ambition for power. Samuel should take note of this point, and beware for his own soul's sake.

    Figuratively speaking, Samuel wants to gather a group of fighters, going from glen to glen, over hill and dale, gathering an army of tall and stout Irishmen bearing pikes, slowly but surely, growing larger by day, culminating in a great and glorious battle to win territory and freedom for the Resistance.

    Anything short of this causes him frustration and impatience.

    The fact he's also frustrated with +Williamson shows I'm at least in good company.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #47 on: April 24, 2018, 10:51:16 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
  • If a traditional Catholic wants to believe that Francis isn't the pope, then fine. It's not that big a deal. What is a big deal is when they insist that all trads must hold that view, or that they must hold the view that Francis is the Pope, but he doesn't have jurisdiction. The lack of jurisdiction is the fashionable sede view of late. They shouldn't be pushing this on everyone.

    Does it really matter? We are all trying to get through the Crisis as best we can. IMO, the sedes and sedewhatevers just muddy the waters. They take time away from things that are truly important, and that which we can have control over - such as our salvation, and the acknowledgement of Christ our King. There isn't anything we can do about whether or not the Pope is the Pope. Why waste time on it?

    Pushing the sede or sedewhatever view is a distraction away from what is truly important. They are obsessive. And ornery. 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline kiwiboy

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 518
    • Reputation: +217/-455
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #48 on: April 24, 2018, 11:23:20 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • The fact he's also frustrated with +Williamson shows I'm at least in good company.

    Well I don't think we should be frustrated at all with the Bishop.

    I don't agree with his thoughts on the Novus Ordo, but that is not something to be frustrated over. At his age we can just let it pass.

    What I wish is people would listen to certain of his reflections more often, instead of their own notions.

    I agree with the rest of your post.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #49 on: April 25, 2018, 10:38:56 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's a recent article from Sean Johnson's blog, which features an excerpt from a conference given by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1980. +ABL describes the problem with sedevacantism, and its inherent divisiveness. The interaction between +ABL and a sedevacantist is also given at the end, which is an example of the inherent divisiveness of sedevacantism. +ABL refused to give a public platform to the sede, and refused to talk to him during the conference. He invited the sede instead to talk to him after the conference. That's not very ecuмenical of him! 

    http://sodalitium-pianum.com/the-inherent-divisiveness-of-sedevacantism/
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #50 on: April 25, 2018, 11:06:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Are people turning to sedevacantism because of your forum? 

    Hardly.  My experience is that once people have chosen their position (R&R, sedevacantist, etc.) they RARELY move but attack the other side tooth and nail.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #51 on: April 25, 2018, 11:14:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's a recent article from Sean Johnson's blog, which features an excerpt from a conference given by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1980. 

    Selective point-in-time snapshot.  It's well known that +Lefebvre went back and forth on the question over the years.  He had a renewed optimism after the election of Wojtyla ... since Montini had become hostile.  But a few years later, around the time of Assisi he came a hair's breadth away from becoming publicly sedevacantist.

    For a more balanced/objective view (in which you are obviously not interested) of his attitude towards sedevacantism, see here:
    http://www.fathercekada.com/2012/09/04/pro-sedevacantism-quotes-from-abp-lefebvre/

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10312
    • Reputation: +6220/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #52 on: April 25, 2018, 11:22:06 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    If a traditional Catholic wants to believe that Francis isn't the pope, then fine. It's not that big a deal. What is a big deal is when they insist that all trads must hold that view, or that they must hold the view that Francis is the Pope, but he doesn't have jurisdiction.
    My motivation is to fight the 'dogmatic' sede view, which is growing.  This dogmatic, excessive and self-authoritarian stance is causing division in families, churches and in tradition.  I've known many people who have been denied Holy Communion or banned from hearing mass because they would not hold 'sedevacantism'.  This has been going on for decades, but it is growing in some areas (and Fr Cekada is a big cause).  This type of stuff is supremely uncharitable and sinful (for its uncharity, for its denial of mass/sacraments, and for its schismatic-like "church rules") and the devil loves it.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10312
    • Reputation: +6220/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #53 on: April 25, 2018, 11:25:16 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    No, it is absolutely "TRULY IMPORTANT" to determine if these men are popes.
    It's an unanswerable question.  No one's opinion outside of the Church's decision matters.  At best, one can come up with a 'high probability' for x, y or z, but there will never be certainty until the Church says so.  Hence, outside of a fun, intellectual debate, or to correct extreme views (i.e. the "una cuм" ridiculousness), it's a waste of time.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #54 on: April 25, 2018, 11:29:58 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • My motivation is to fight the 'dogmatic' sede view, which is growing.  This dogmatic, excessive and self-authoritarian stance is causing division in families, churches and in tradition.  I've known many people who have been denied Holy Communion or banned from hearing mass because they would not hold 'sedevacantism'.  This has been going on for decades, but it is growing in some areas (and Fr Cekada is a big cause).  This type of stuff is supremely uncharitable and sinful (for its uncharity, for its denial of mass/sacraments, and for its schismatic-like "church rules") and the devil loves it.

    Yes, exactly! And yes, the devil loves it. And the sedes are alright with that, apparently. They seem to enjoy the division that they cause. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #55 on: April 25, 2018, 12:36:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I've known many people who have been denied Holy Communion or banned from hearing mass because they would not hold 'sedevacantism'.

    Really?  I've known no one who was denied the Sacraments for this reason.  I've known it to happen to Feeneyites.  CMRI, SSPV, and most sede groups openly tolerate non-sedevacantist views.  You only have a couple small enclaves of radicals (e.g. +Sanborn, Fr. Cekada, etc.) who MAY do this, though even in their case I have no knowledge of them ever having done so.  I may be wrong on that though.


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #56 on: April 25, 2018, 01:17:17 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Ultimately this will end in the Traditionalist movement becoming home aloners if not some becoming atheists. Home alone has become significant in the Post Falls area and is growing. Divide and then exterminate. The devils venom is doing its job.

    I didn't know that home alone has become a significant problem in Post Falls. There must be a general confusion among many there.

    I now have to wonder if maybe Bp. Fellay was right when he talked about the risk of schism by staying away from Rome. Not that I'm for reconciliation, but the schismatic mentality is getting stronger among trads, if this forum is any indication.

    Many trads don't seem to have the ability anymore to stay with what +ABL wisely taught, since the SSPX changed it's course, and the sedes have infiltrated trad ranks. Between the two factors, it's a sad situation.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline hismajesty

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 170
    • Reputation: +106/-329
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #57 on: April 25, 2018, 03:56:58 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!2
  • Ultimately this will end in the Traditionalist movement becoming home aloners if not some becoming atheists. Home alone has become significant in the Post Falls area and is growing. Divide and then exterminate. The devils venom is doing its job.


    Where there is no resistance Mass a Catholic should stay at home.

    This has nothing to do with sedevacantism or liberalism. It is simply catholic moral theology that you cannot attend the Mass of a heretic.

    The SSPX are formally aligned with the conciliar church which makes them modernist heretics.

    There is no two ways to fudge this. It is the truth.
    "....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another" - Church Father Lactentius on the globe earth

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10312
    • Reputation: +6220/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #58 on: April 25, 2018, 04:25:59 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3
  • Quote
    Where there is no resistance Mass a Catholic should stay at home.
    One has an obligation to attend a valid, licit and moral mass, under pain of hell, regardless of the priest's views (assuming he's a valid priest).  The resistance masses are not the only masses.

    Quote
    This has nothing to do with sedevacantism or liberalism. It is simply catholic moral theology that you cannot attend the Mass of a heretic.
    If you're talking about the novus ordo mass, I agree, it's heretical.  Outside of this, you're being extreme.

    Quote
    The SSPX are formally aligned with the conciliar church which makes them modernist heretics.
    The SSPX is very close to being 'red lighted' in my opinion, but not yet.  Sunday masses, by and large, still fulfill one's sunday obligation, even if the sermon is full of propaganda and the church is full of sheeple.  Until the sspx formally becomes indult, and outside of marriage masses where the novus ordo "priests" are involved, I would attend if I had to.  The obligation to honor God through a valid and pleasing Mass outweighs any ancillary questionable orthodoxy. 

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2133
    • Reputation: +1330/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: To those frustrated with non-Resistance Catholics on CathInfo
    « Reply #59 on: April 25, 2018, 04:33:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://tradcatresist.blogspot.ie/

    by Don Curzio Nitoglia

    Due to the actions of Pope Francis (and arguably Bishop Fellay's trajectory i.e the refusal of the SSPX to loudly condemn those actions) sedevacantism has made great gains throughout tradition over the last couple of years.

    Personally, I have never known as many people question a Pope's legitimacy, and never expected that even conservative Catholic's would be asking the same thing.

    Perhaps due to a combination of a conspiratorial nature, and ahem "quirkiness" that one finds in the resistance, the question of sedevacantism has now begun to divide cleric and layman alike. This is only to be expected, if one has left behind a "comfortable" existence with the SSPX for 'refusing to compromise with error' then one can hardly blame people for 'blowing a gasket' when they find themselves fighting needless arguments within a remnant of a remnant.

    http://tradcatresist.blogspot.ie/