Well, I guess we know why Fr. Pagliarani went to the Sanford (FL) priory to "vacation" again:Dear Sean,
While there is no word yet as to whether he and Fr. Vernoy disgraced themselves again riding roller coasters at Sea World, we do have word that +Tissier de Mallerais will perform confirmations for the Sanford faithful...at the local Novus Ordo Church.
(https://radiocristiandad.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/100_3156.jpg?w=600&h=382)
(https://radiocristiandad.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/img009.jpg?w=600&h=397)
From the bulletin of St. Thomas More Chapel:
(https://i.imgur.com/tPMsd2k.png)
For more details, see here: https://thecatacombs.org/showthread.php?tid=5573
Another priest known to me at another chapel has been saying Mass in the local Novus Ordo church, with the permission of the local bishop. It is not known by me whether this Mass was for SSPXers, full conciliarists, or both.
Meanwhile, an SSPX Texas chapel of 30 is suddenly overwhelmed by 120 indulters, but not much changed after 10+ years of branding. No doubt, the new indulters found things very much the same as the Mass which closed down.
The SSPX is in total collapse.
I mean, "Nothing has changed!"
+Tissier de Mallerais will perform confirmations for the Sanford faithful...at the local Novus Ordo Church.Who cares? +W wouldn't have a problem with this. Why should you, Sean?
Who cares? +W wouldn't have a problem with this. Why should you, Sean?+1
Who cares? +W wouldn't have a problem with this. Why should you, Sean?
Good point.
Who cares? +W wouldn't have a problem with this. Why should you, Sean?
The SSPX is in total collapse.Sean,
I mean, "Nothing has changed!"
Sean,THIS ^^^
I think you said it elsewhere... The SSPX seems to have become the official "latin mass provider" of the novus ordo.
Got it: Pax doesn’t care if confirmations are done in Novus Ordo churches.
gαy point.
Is there something you're trying to tell us, Sean, with your constant references to gαyness?
Even when +W was still with the SSPX, they have offered Masses in churches normally used for the NO such as the Lourdes pilgrimage. In fact +W himself celebrated masses in Anglican buildings. Did +W first exorcised those structures? :facepalm:
Context:
The Resistance opposes the conciliar religion, and the use of their facilities represents a Reconquista of sorts.
The SSPX is collaborating with, and joining, the conciliar religion, and it’s use of their facilities is meant to further that goal.
Apples/oranges.
You're just trying to paint some apples orange and pass them off as oranges.
Ah, I see, so there's a problem with the Conciliar Religion. Hmmm, reminds me of the same argument we made regarding whether it's acceptable to assist at the NOM. I, and others, likened it to attending a valid Mass at an Eastern Orthodox church. Valid Liturgy but False Church = unacceptable. But you don't even see that you're in total contradiction ... or refute to see ... or both.
The Resistance opposes the conciliar religion,If by "opposes" you mean they have a personal preference against it (not based on unchanging principles or theology) then I would agree. Unfortunately, this is the minimalist extent of such opposition.
While there is no word yet as to whether he and Fr. Vernoy disgraced themselves again riding roller coasters at Sea World, we do have word that +Tissier de Mallerais will perform confirmations for the Sanford faithful...at the local Novus Ordo Church.
Just as a thought experiment, I wonder if Our Lord, during His earthly sojourn, would have taken a ride on a roller coaster at a place like Sea World, if the opportunity had presented itself.
I can't think of a reason He would not have.
It seems to me Our Lord would not have allowed himself to be seen as being frivolous and carefree. His life was filled with sorrows and His life was an example for us to emulate. Going on a thrill seeking amusement would’ve been beneath His exulted dignity.Does it mean that seminarians and priests playing football or other kind of sports or even other games for recreation is unfitting?
Does it mean that seminarians and priests playing football or other kind of sports or even other games for recreation is unfitting?
| “In order never to be guilty of any unedifying act, the priest must regulate his actions, his movements and his habits in harmony with the sublimity of his vocation. He who on the altar almost ceases to be mortal and takes on a divine form, remains always the same, even when he comes down from the holy hill and leaves the temple of the Lord. Wherever he is, wherever he goes, he never ceases to be a priest, and the serious reasons that compel him always to be grave and appropriate accompany him with his dignity everywhere. “Hence he must have that gravity that will ensure that his words, his bearing, and his way of working arouse love, win authority and excite reverence. For, the very reasons that oblige him to be holy make it a duty for him to show it by his outward acts in order to edify all those with whom he is obliged to come into contact. A composed and dignified exterior is a powerful eloquence which wins souls in a much more efficacious manner than persuasive sermons. Nothing inspires greater confidence than an ecclesiastic who, never forgetting the dignity of his state, demonstrates in every situation that gravity which attracts and wins universal homage. “If, on the contrary, he forgets the holiness of the sacred character which he bears indelibly impressed and engraved on his soul, and if he fails to show in his outward conduct a gravity superior to that of certain men of the world, then he causes his ministry and religion itself to be despised. For when gravity is wanting in its leaders, the people lose respect and veneration for them.” (1) |
Does it mean that seminarians and priests playing football or other kind of sports or even other games for recreation is unfitting?
Are you seriously trying to equate playing football on private grounds with riding roller coasters at theme parks?
Here’s Pope St. Pius X on priestly bearing and gravity;
“In order never to be guilty of any unedifying act, the priest must regulate his actions, his movements and his habits in harmony with the sublimity of his vocation. He who on the altar almost ceases to be mortal and takes on a divine form, remains always the same, even when he comes down from the holy hill and leaves the temple of the Lord. Wherever he is, wherever he goes, he never ceases to be a priest, and the serious reasons that compel him always to be grave and appropriate accompany him with his dignity everywhere.
“Hence he must have that gravity that will ensure that his words, his bearing, and his way of working arouse love, win authority and excite reverence. For, the very reasons that oblige him to be holy make it a duty for him to show it by his outward acts in order to edify all those with whom he is obliged to come into contact. A composed and dignified exterior is a powerful eloquence which wins souls in a much more efficacious manner than persuasive sermons. Nothing inspires greater confidence than an ecclesiastic who, never forgetting the dignity of his state, demonstrates in every situation that gravity which attracts and wins universal homage.
“If, on the contrary, he forgets the holiness of the sacred character which he bears indelibly impressed and engraved on his soul, and if he fails to show in his outward conduct a gravity superior to that of certain men of the world, then he causes his ministry and religion itself to be despised. For when gravity is wanting in its leaders, the people lose respect and veneration for them.” (1)
Are you seriously trying to equate playing football on private grounds with riding roller coasters at theme parks?Which planet are you from? Winona seminarians and priests also play ice hockey outside the seminary.
Which planet are you from? Winona seminarians and priests also play ice hockey outside the seminary.
Elle détend tout d’abord l’esprit et évacue l’énergie corporelle en trop, ce qui permet aux séminaristes de retourner à leurs études ou leurs prières avec une vigueur et une concentration nouvelles. C’est pourquoi Mgr Lefebvre la dit « absolument nécessaire » dans le règlement des séminaires de la FSSPX. Les heures passées à la chapelle et en classe sont bonnes et gratifiantes, mais l’homme est constitué d’un corps et d’une âme, qui ne peuvent ni l’un ni l’autre travailler perpétuellement sans répit. La détente est nécessaire.
La récréation est en même temps une école de vertu. Puisqu’en effet elle est un temps de détente, les gens qui y participent donnent libre cours à leur personnalité et sont donc plus enclins à y révéler leurs opinions, leurs préférences et leurs plaintes qu’à d’autres moments. C’est dans l’excitation d’une vive discussion ou d’un jeu, que nos qualités et nos défauts se révèlent, ce qui nous donne ainsi des occasions de nous humilier, tout en fournissant à nos compagnons des chances d’exercer la patience et la longanimité.
Les différentes récréations de chaque jour permettent d’exercer une grande variété d’activités ludiques, à l’extérieur comme à l’intérieur. La promenade aux alentours du séminaire est certainement la détente la plus appréciée, car elle favorise les conversations enjouées sans être trop fatigante. Pour les sports en extérieur, les séminaristes jouent au football, au basketball, au hockey sur glace, au street hockey, et pour ceux qui sont moins portés aux jeux d’équipes, il reste la course à pied, la marche en montagne ou le vélo. Les sports intérieurs offrent la possibilité de jouer au badminton, au ping-Pong et au babyfoot. Le séminaire a également une salle de récréation où les séminaristes peuvent lire des journaux choisis, jouer aux cartes ou à d’autres jeux de société, et écouter de la musique. Quelles que soient les activités des séminaristes, elles cessent au son de la cloche qui annonce la fin de la récréation, et le retour aux diverses obligations : l’étude, les cours, les services ou la prière.
What planet are you from, where playing hockey at an empty rink at a Catholic college is equated with priests riding roller coasters at theme parks?
For Our Lord, yes. For them, Not so much.I have no issue with envisioning Our Lord, during His earthly ministry, engaging in wholesome recreation with His Apostles, or with joining a pick-up basketball game (or whatever the first-century Palestinian equivalent would have been) with a group of youths.
If a priest wears black to show his separation from the world, nothing says 'the world' like a garish, Godless theme park full of essentially silly amusements. Recreate by all means but going to such an establishment for that purpose is as about as silly as it gets.Whether it's appropriate or not/sinful or not, when I see that, it reminds me of the actions of Novus Ordo "priests". I can't think of any sedevacantist priest that I knew/know that would be caught dead on a rollercoaster.
I have no issue with envisioning Our Lord, during His earthly ministry, engaging in wholesome recreation with His Apostles, or with joining a pick-up basketball game (or whatever the first-century Palestinian equivalent would have been) with a group of youths.
Scripture tells us very little of how He spent His time outside of preaching and performing miracles.
Even though recreation is necessary for most people to keep a healthy mind and body, it is a sort of weakness.I don’t disagree with you, and I had your latter thought in mind, albeit implicitly, when I made my observation. Engaging in recreation, with others, could have given Him a chance to teach them, and to, for lack of a better way to put it, gain credibility with them. No aspect of His earthly life was without purpose.
Since Our Lord was perfect, it seems more plausible to me that he wasted no time at all with recreation. All of his acts were full of merit and beautiful. He did no useless things, or less than perfect things.
Our Lord probably spent all his "free" time praying.
I imagine that the only possibility for Our Lord to engage in some sort of recreation is if it was an opportunity to teach something. Just like when He went to bankets. He was obviously not there because He wanted to enjoy good food. He was there to teach.
Well, I guess we know why Fr. Pagliarani went to the Sanford (FL) priory to "vacation" again:
While there is no word yet as to whether he and Fr. Vernoy disgraced themselves again riding roller coasters at Sea World, we do have word that +Tissier de Mallerais will perform confirmations for the Sanford faithful...at the local Novus Ordo Church.
(https://radiocristiandad.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/100_3156.jpg?w=600&h=382)
(https://radiocristiandad.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/img009.jpg?w=600&h=397)
From the bulletin of St. Thomas More Chapel:
(https://i.imgur.com/tPMsd2k.png)
For more details, see here: https://thecatacombs.org/showthread.php?tid=5573
Another priest known to me at another chapel has been saying Mass in the local Novus Ordo church, with the permission of the local bishop. It is not known by me whether this Mass was for SSPXers, full conciliarists, or both.
Meanwhile, an SSPX Texas chapel of 30 is suddenly overwhelmed by 120 indulters, but not much changed after 10+ years of branding. No doubt, the new indulters found things very much the same as the Mass which closed down.
The SSPX is in total collapse.
I mean, "Nothing has changed!"
Yes, I agree that it's rather unbecoming for priests to be seen this way in public. Now, it wasn't the worst possible venue as there's nothing intrinsically immoral about it, except of course the immodest dress everywhere in the park (given Florida heat). Imagine a picture snapped of a priest at the park where there's a 95% unclothed female behind or next to him in the picture frame.
This seems to show the same type of attitude toward the clerical state that you find in the Novus Ordo. So the SSPX is now opening their windows to the world, following the tragic example of Roncalli et al.
What planet are you from, where playing hockey at an empty rink at a Catholic college is equated with priests riding roller coasters at theme parks?
I agree on the nothing intrinsically immoral part. What is your opinion then about smoking?As a priest I knew who smoked used to say: "Better to smoke here than in the hereafter."
I agree on the nothing intrinsically immoral part. What is your opinion then about smoking?
Even sacraments by an Eastern Orthodox priest are acceptable in grave necessity. As usual, your absolutist claims pass over in ignorance the exceptions.
So it's not so private after all, when the pictures have been made public. :facepalm:
If you can’t distinguish a qualitative difference between rollercoasting priests at theme parks ...
There's probably some cultural relativity there. Smoking USED to be considered sophisticated/cool/adult ... and has only after years and billions of dollars of ads come to be considered low-class or boorish. Priest should avoid anything that derogates from the dignity of the priesthood, and so probably should avoid smoking in public. They should also avoid smelling like smoke, especially during Mass. I knew an old priest whose smokey fingers altered the taste of the Hosts when he distributed Communion. But nothing inherently evil. St. Pius X used a variation on snuff, and Leo XIII was famous for his cocaine wine.
That is an interesting discussion.
It seems to me that smoking cigarettes is seem as a bad habit and would make the priest appear mundane and frivolous, while a priest smoking a cigar would be seen as a luxury loving man.
Now, a priest smoking a pipe would look like some sort of very intelligent and intellectual cleric.
Exactly right. There are in fact some things that are culturally relativist. So, for instance, going back toward the beginning of the Church, in Rome, men who wore beards were considered boorish and barbaric. In fact, the term for barbarian is related to the Latin word for beard. Meanwhile, in the East, men who didn't have beards were considered effeminate.
Similarly, the perception of smoking has changed in Western culture. If you recall, there were commercials back in the day that made smoking seem sophisticated for the ladies (with the longer, more slender cigarettes) and manly for men (Malboro man). After decades of government anti-smoking campaigns, smoking is now considered vulgar ... except, as you point out, in the case of smoking a pipe.
I recall a pre-Vatican II joke about the Jesuits, where a Jesuit was asking his superior if it was OK to smoke while he prayed. He was told that it's not appropriate. So then the Jesuit tried again, asking if it would be OK if he prayed while he smoked. To which his superior replied, "Of course, as we are told to pray always."
You’re struggling…and sinking.
Can you imagine what Lefebvre would have said about rollercoasting priests?
Would Pagliarani have even dared to ask his permission (the thought alone makes one blush).
If you can’t distinguish a qualitative difference between rollercoasting priests at theme parks, and soccer on seminary grounds, I’m certain I can’t help you.
And you’re even willing to dismiss St. Pius X to defend this nonsense. Wow.
especially when you factor in that they're milling around among scantily-dressed females.Come on, it's not like they purposely go there to mill around scantily-dressed females? That's rather presumptuous. Furthermore it's not like they are frequent visitors to theme parks.
I don't like to imagine things like you. There is nothing immoral or sinful about this, and it's not even their 'common' type of recreation. if one were to misread St. Pius X like you did, then any form of sports would be out of the question.
On the other hand, the priest himself can either
1 - keep silent and be careful about the custody of his eyes
2 - evangelize to the woman and still try to keep custody of his eyes
In the case of an airplane, it was not the priest's choice to place himself in such a situation.
In the case of amusement parks, he does choose to place himself in such a situation (as well as foregoing becomming gravity and degrading the priestly dignity of which M. Johnson is speaking).
I was only going by Sean's logic. Does playing sports like football or ice hockey show gravity?
Come on, it's not like they purposely go there to mill around scantily-dressed females? That's rather presumptuous.
Yes, because the concern is to remain out of the public gaze, whereas these priests were the butt of the joke of every 14 year-old giggling girl at the theme park, degrading themselves and the priesthood by their folly.
Seriously, bro, you are defending the indefensible, and making a fool of yourself.
I'll leave you to it.
Idiotic. It has nothing to do with purpose, but an admixture of the sacred (priesthood) with the profane, regardless of what their "purpose" was. Let's go ahead and put a Monstrance up with the Blessed Sacrament in the picnic area of Sea World next, eh? It's about "degrading ... the priesthood", as Sean pointed out.
That's a stretch of your imagination. If you folks have picnic in the picnic area (duh!!!) of Sea World, it's not a sin either. Period.
This ☝️☝️☝️☝️
Not that you are as old as I, but the younger members of this forum, and many young trads in general, have been so indoctrinated with the modern world that they can’t grasp what you are trying to convey.
I don't see it as sinful for SSPX priests to go to Sea World. It seems Puritanistic to assume that it's sinful. Recreation is not an unreasonable thing for Catholic priests to engage in.
... another one who's lost a sense of the sacred.
Seems childish at best. I don't know of any men who would call each other up and say, 'let's go to Disneyland and ride the rides!!!' People of every walk walk of life need recreation in some form but grown men going to play on the rides at an 'amusement park'?
Are Catholic priests never allowed recreation? Are they to spend every minute of every day in prayer and reflection? How much prayer and reflection do you do every day?
Which part of the "public" aspect did you miss? And which part of the fact their their priests did you miss? "Recreation" is built into most religious rules. It's not about recreation, but about public displays of frivolity leading to disedification and disrespect for the priestly state. Next let's have the priest knocking back pints at the local pub sitting next to immodestly-dressed females looking for one-night stands.
I thank God that I'm not a Puritan.
So that's your best "refutation", declaring me a Puritan. You're failing to distinguish between the instrinsic nature of the act and disedification caused by it. It's not sinful to flatulate either, but if a priest were walking around blowing farts, belching out loud, and laughing about it, would that not be an offense to the clerical state?
A priest is a human being, not a god.
Still no substantive response. False dilemma. Priest is not some average run of the mill individual either. He's a man who's dedicated and consecrated to God, and an Alter Christus. He acts in persona Christi, so in a way he IS God, because he carries around the character of Our Lord.
We should focus on this portion of Pius X's comments:
“If, on the contrary, he forgets the holiness of the sacred character which he bears indelibly impressed and engraved on his soul, and if he fails to show in his outward conduct a gravity superior to that of certain men of the world, then he causes his ministry and religion itself to be despised. For when gravity is wanting in its leaders, the people lose respect and veneration for them.”
The Novus Ordo priests behave like the ones in the OP. How many people are drawn to the Catholic Faith because of this type of behavior? It might draw people to the Novus Ordo faith, but not the Catholic Faith. Unless these SSPX priests want to be like the NO priests, they had better make better choices.
Man… talk about “bait & switch”!
Trento did a slick job of derailing the topic.
Where’s the discussion on the implications of Bp. Tissier offering authentic, Holy Sacraments in a desacralized Novus ordo church?
:popcorn:
Seems childish at best. I don't know of any men who would call each other up and say, 'let's go to Disneyland and ride the rides!!!' People of every walk of life need some recreation but grown men going to play on the rides at an 'amusement park'?
Transcript of the above sermon related to this issue of the SSPX administering Sacraments in Novus Ordo parishes:Thank you for sharing this!
Quote:
... For us, we are ordered to accept Vatican II, the New Mass, the whole errors of the New Code go along with the Diocesan Bishops. Bishop Tissier is going to have confirmations in a month or two in All Saints Parish Church Novus Ordo, in Sanford, Florida. And they're going to have New Mass that morning. Bishop Tissier is going to come in, do Confirmations, have Mass, and then they're going to have the New Mass later that afternoon, no doubt. It's a New Mass parish and same in Syracuse.
I hear they're having a regular Mass. It's a beautiful church. It belongs to Tradition. It was built before Vatican II, but sandwiched between indult masses and Novus Ordo Masses. Do you think Archbishop Lefebvre would settle for this? Do you think he would be approving of this? I doubt it. I doubt it because the Archbishop often said you want to avoid the ambiance, that is the environment, the toxic gas and the air that breathes in these Novus Ordo churches.
So if the priests of Syracuse are budd[ies] with the priests of the Novus Ordo diocese and the Novus Ordo Bishops, which they have to be to get their churches, do you think they're going to stand in the pulpit and condemn the New Mass and Vatican II in their Novus Ordo church, sandwiched between Novus Ordo Masses? Do you think Bishop Tissier, who we lament to see him sliding, do you think he's going to stand in the pulpit when he confirms these people in the Novus Ordo church sandwiched between Novus Ordo Masses and tell them the New Mass is evil, Vatican II is straight out of hell? Do you think he's going mention even Archbishop Lefebvre's name?
And this is why the Archbishop was very clear. You don't make deals with Rome. You don't put ourselves under these modernist bishops. And what's happening to the faithful? They're sliding and sliding and they're going to say, well, we're in the same church. New Mass was at 10, our Mass was at 12 and I can't make it to our Mass, so maybe I could go to the New Mass. After all, we're in the same church. You see, it makes the people slide in their faith. It's very dangerous. And this is why we have the saints, all these martyrs before us, they didn't play games with the faith at all.
... With the matters of the Faith, you don't have to argue and debate. We don't go with the New Mass, we don't play with it. We don't approve the New Mass miracles because we know many of them are invalid. One of the priests of the Novus Ordo, who talks about the so-called miraculous multiplication of the hosts when he was giving Holy Communion. Well, one, maybe it's not even valid because a lot of these priests don't believe. And the priest said, "Yeah, it was really cool." He said it was really cool.
And it's all around the New Mass where there's no reverence, no genuflections, no center on the sacrifice of the cross. It's all man-centered. Is our Lord really even there? Most of them are not even valid today. Most of them are not even valid and the priests probably are not even valid because of the dubious consecrations of the Novus Ordo rite since 1968. It's for the Church to decide, but I have to ... You know as well as I, Archbishop Lefebvre admitted there is a doubt here. Maybe they're valid, maybe they're not, and that's the danger.
So if it's not valid, of course the devil could multiply fake miracles. He could get in there and make a fake miracle. And Christ warned us, 'Beware of the prodigies and errors towards the end of times because Satan will try to seduce if possible, even the elect.' And how can we be seduced to lose our faith? To accept New Mass, New Mass miracles, and accept Vatican II, which is exactly where it leads. So that's the danger of our times. And now traditional Catholics are in great danger with these traditional Masses in Novus Ordo churches sandwiched between Novus Ordo Masses, friendly with Novus Ordo bishops.
It's an extremely dangerous atmosphere. It's very toxic and dangerous to the faith and the faithful are in danger as well because they're not going to hear from the pulpits, you can't go to the New Mass, [the] New Mass is straight out of hell. Vatican II is from hell. You got to keep the Faith, persevere in the line of tradition and the Popes and Archbishop Lefebvre. They're not going to say that. No way. Not when they're getting favors from Pope Francis, from the local bishops and from the Novus Ordo priests.
"So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, so that we may remain Catholics, remain united to the Blessed Virgin Mary, remain united to the Roman Catholic Church, remain faithful children of the Church."- Abp. Lefebvre
https://thecatacombs.org/showthread.php?tid=5573
Transcript of the above sermon related to this issue of the SSPX administering Sacraments in Novus Ordo parishes:It is All Souls Parish, not All Saints.
Quote:
... Bishop Tissier is going to have confirmations in a month or two in All Saints Parish Church Novus Ordo, in Sanford, Florida. And they're going to have New Mass that morning. Bishop Tissier is going to come in, do Confirmations, have Mass, and then they're going to have the New Mass later that afternoon, no doubt. It's a New Mass parish and same in Syracuse.
Novus Ordo revels in such displays, where they show nuns and priests doing absurd secular things like participating in dance contests, rapping, and engaging in all manner of frivolity that is not becoming to their state in life. As another poster stated, the clerical garb has always been a sign of death to the world and of separate from the world (i.e., sacred-ness), and this admixture of the sacred and the profane borders upon sacrilege against their state in life. No one is saying that there's anything inherently wrong with riding a roller coaster, just that the public display of such activities is disedifying and is contrary to the dignity of their state in life. There's nothing sinful about going to the bathroom and doing a number 2, but you wouldn't do that in public either.Exactly.
This actually is the Vatican II spirit in microcosm, where it shows the Church opening up the "windows" to the world, and blending in with the world, to become more "relevant".
I know an Eastern Rite priest who likes to mix it up with the parishioners, going out drinking with them, bowling, playing basketball with them, etc. Nobody wants to go to Confession to him, despite his constant attempts to persuade people to go to the Sacrament, and that's because ... who wants to go to Confession to your bowling buddy? Excessive familiarity breeds contempt and loss of respect.
Sorry, but I don't see that as particularly unmanly.
I cannot go on amusement park rides due to vertigo and nausea, so it's not an issue for me. My son has always understood this, so he never pressed me to get on roller coasters, Ferris wheels, and the like.
-The Confirmations will be happening at the newer church as far as I understand, not the historic chapel. A collection will be taken at the confirmations, I guess as a gift/rent for using the church.It is at the newer church
-All Souls' has hosted the indult Mass in Orlando ever since the SSPX church opened.
-The bishop of Orlando is allowing this Mass at the church for ecuмenical reasons in light of Francis' recent gestures to the SSPX (e.g. Confession faculties, Marriage faculties, etc.). Cannon 137 was mentioned about this specifically by Bishop Noonan.
-Technically, the cemetery attached to All Souls also mentions when someone is buried authorized clergy are only to perform the Rites at the cemetery. SSPX clergy as far as I know always have been able to perform the Rites there where several lay people are buried that attended the SSPX Masses. I'm sure Cannon 137 would also be their explanation for this.
It is at the newer churchDear jersey60,
There are other problems connected to the New Mass, none of which is trivial. For one thing, the Novus Ordo Missae desecrates the church in which it is offered. Also, in my humble opinion, Communion in the Hand is another act of desecration, inflicted upon the Sacramental Body of Christ directly. The law requires that, once a church or oratory has been desecrated, Catholic services may not be held there until it is properly reconciled.But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.
--Fr James F. Wathen
---
These new-sspx clerics who keep playing around with novus ordo churches and mixing-and-matching the True Rites with novus ordo rites/churches will be held accountable by God for their scandalous and lukewarm attitude towards the new religion, which is not of God, and which highly offends Him and Our Lady. I would not want to be them on Judgement Day.
There are other problems connected to the New Mass, none of which is trivial. For one thing, the Novus Ordo Missae desecrates the church in which it is offered. Also, in my humble opinion, Communion in the Hand is another act of desecration, inflicted upon the Sacramental Body of Christ directly. The law requires that, once a church or oratory has been desecrated, Catholic services may not be held there until it is properly reconciled.
--Fr James F. Wathen
---
These new-sspx clerics who keep playing around with novus ordo churches and mixing-and-matching the True Rites with novus ordo rites/churches will be held accountable by God for their scandalous and lukewarm attitude towards the new religion, which is not of God, and which highly offends Him and Our Lady. I would not want to be them on Judgement Day.
I am praying that nobody shows up for Confirmation but just goes over to the Priory for the dinner afterwards.If people really cared about the Faith, and really understood the depravity of the novus ordo, and the sacrileges/blasphemies that take place in such churches, on a weekly basis, one would not want to step foot in such places, being they are spiritually cursed.
If people really cared about the Faith, and really understood the depravity of the novus ordo, and the sacrileges/blasphemies that take place in such churches, on a weekly basis, one would not want to step foot in such places, being they are spiritually cursed.Dear Pax Vobis,
And if the new-sspx laity were not as brainwashed/indoctrinated/de-sensitized to the novus ordo as they are, one would expect a proper reaction such that Catholics of the 70s/80s had to the novus ordo -- a complete boycott and protest over +Tissier's scandalous and sinful actions.
If +Tissier and others in the new-sspx want to have "old rite" sacraments in novus ordo churches, let them go join the indult, like FSSP and ICK. Quit destroying what little Traditionalism the new-SSPX still has, which is what they are doing.
Dear Pax Vobis,
What can the laity do when SSPX priests do not see how bad all things novus ordo are?? Fr. Stehlin reportedly stated that to conditionally ordain a novus ordo priest joining the Society or working in SSPX chapels in Poland would be a SACRILEGE. A young SSPX priest thinks it is a good thing that a novus ordo bishop would want the SSPX to use his new church for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass--they (SSPX) have been treated like garbage until recently! It is so frustrating to try to explain how serious a threat the novus ordo is---it is as if their brains are infected with the Modernist virus. It's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers-Traditional Sequel".
The SSPX priests bear the indelible mark of the True Roman Catholic Priesthood through the Apostolic Succession of their founder, Archbishop Lefebvre. What has happened to them?
What can the laity do when SSPX priests do not see how bad all things novus ordo are??You need to realize that *some* new-sspx priests DO SEE how bad the novus ordo is, but they are infiltrators, who want to destroy Tradition. Many others don't like the changes within the sspx, but are hesitant to speak up for fear of getting kicked out. Still others (mostly the younger generations) think they can "save the Church" and reform the novus ordo (i.e. Benedict XVI style).
Dear jersey60,I would pray for the same but being that I know many parishioners there, I wouldn’t count on it, if you cross the Prior, the price to pay is heavy
I am praying that nobody shows up for Confirmation but just goes over to the Priory for the dinner afterwards. Hmmm...enough room there for all the families to eat, but not enough room for Confirmations??
Does that roller coaster go upside down?Yes. This is first person view https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgplrEjdBPw kind of a moderate ride.
Thank God they didn’t go to Disney.
I've seen sermons by FSSP priests that are far to the right of the SSPX mainstream position.I have witnessed this too.
I would pray for the same but being that I know many parishioners there, I wouldn’t count on it, if you cross the Prior, the price to pay is heavy
Yes, Prior Toupee will destroy you if you get in the way of his fundraising initiatives. If you want to attend an SSPX mass in Sanford or any of the missions in Florida you need to shut up and do as you are told.Dear Jr1991,
---it is as if their brains are infected with the Modernist virus. It's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers-Traditional Sequel".
In my observation since 2012, it seems the SSPX priests were prohibited, for the most part, from condemning the evils and errors of Vatican ll publicly, and only allowed to make nice homilies on virtue. Unfortunately, this caused a blindness to error. They don't see it and are not militantly fighting against it anymore.
Dear Jr1991,It was years ago, but an usher was "kicked out" of his duties for having attended a Mass down the street at a home where Fr. Hewko was having Mass. And in doing so, was left a very nasty message that I wouldn't even send someone. Saying perhaps this news would make him weep or cry! Can you believe a priest would say that to someone about attending a Mass?
This is horrible! How can we help? Has anyone tried communicating with the District Superior? It sounds like he has created his own little kingdom in Florida, and it does not look like the Kingdom of Our Lord. Sometimes we need to put feet to our prayers. Did anyone try to talk with Fr. Pagliarani while he was there? Could you beg Bishop Tissier to stay in St. Thomas More for Confirmations? Maybe a sympathetic priest who is brave could help you. We are with you in prayer, especially this weekend!
I don't think they are prohitbited from condemning the evils and errors of Vatican II publicly. I did in fact have heard sermons by newer priests about this topic. It's just that they don't dwell on this in every single sermon. The SSPX Crisis Series videos still have topics on Vatican II.
I don't think they are prohitbited from condemning the evils and errors of Vatican II publicly. I did in fact have heard sermons by newer priests about this topic. It's just that they don't dwell on this in every single sermon. The SSPX Crisis Series videos still have topics on Vatican II.
It was years ago, but an usher was "kicked out" of his duties for having attended a Mass down the street at a home where Fr. Hewko was having Mass. And in doing so, was left a very nasty message that I wouldn't even send someone. Saying perhaps this news would make him weep or cry! Can you believe a priest would say that to someone about attending a Mass?
They didn't want me to their website either anymore but I'll take it, Father Duvergier once asked me to scrub the name/pictures of Father Marshall Roberts from the site. The priests in Sanford have been very sketchy ever since it has been a priory to be honest.
Dear Jr1991,
This is horrible! How can we help? Has anyone tried communicating with the District Superior? It sounds like he has created his own little kingdom in Florida, and it does not look like the Kingdom of Our Lord. Sometimes we need to put feet to our prayers. Did anyone try to talk with Fr. Pagliarani while he was there? Could you beg Bishop Tissier to stay in St. Thomas More for Confirmations? Maybe a sympathetic priest who is brave could help you. We are with you in prayer, especially this weekend!
Didn’t he perform an exorcism when Fr. Hewko offered mass at the nearby house?It did happen at the church but if memory serves me correct it was Father Elias who performed it.
It did happen at the church but if memory serves me correct it was Father Elias who performed it.That is correct, I remember it vividly
It was years ago, but an usher was "kicked out" of his duties for having attended a Mass down the street at a home where Fr. Hewko was having Mass. And in doing so, was left a very nasty message that I wouldn't even send someone. Saying perhaps this news would make him weep or cry! Can you believe a priest would say that to someone about attending a Mass?The usher wasn’t the only one who received a phone call from Fr. V, I remember the call he gave me for the same “infraction “…very strange indeed
They didn't want me to their website either anymore but I'll take it, Father Duvergier once asked me to scrub the name/pictures of Father Marshall Roberts from the site. The priests in Sanford have been very sketchy ever since it has been a priory to be honest.
It did happen at the church but if memory serves me correct it was Father Elias who performed it.
Can someone verify? Are you saying that Fr. Hewko came to Florida and said Mass in a private home? And an SSPX-associated priest performed an exorcism on the home because Fr. Hewko said his Mass in that home?The exorcism happened at the church to rid the “unclean spirit.” The prior himself drove down to see who was attending the Mass and took note of who’s cars were at the home.
The exorcism happened at the church to rid the “unclean spirit.” The prior himself drove down to see who was attending the Mass and took note of who’s cars were at the home.This is batsh*t crazy stuff. Seriously.
The exorcism happened at the church to rid the “unclean spirit.” The prior himself drove down to see who was attending the Mass and took note of who’s cars were at the home.Dear eddiearent,
This is batsh*t crazy stuff. Seriously.
The exorcism happened at the church to rid the “unclean spirit.” The prior himself drove down to see who was attending the Mass and took note of who’s cars were at the home.I can confirm what eddiearent has said, it made for a strange weekend back then at the Sanford church
Not necessarily so.Though you make valid comments, having been present at what occurred there, with all due respect I think you’re giving too much credit to the Sanford prior. As I don’t want to be uncharitable, there is even more to the Sanford story as relates to the owners of the home where the private Mass was held by Fr.Hewko ( Fr. Pfeiffer was also there BTW), the family moved to that house to be near the chapel and the school. They were treated unfairly by the Prior in a most uncharitable way. I’ll refrain from commenting further as I don’t want to be guilty of spreading a story like this, true though it is.
Many on this forum love Father Hewko and have fond memories of his SSPX work.
But he was exposed to a Santeria warlock who works with “Bp.” Joe Pfeiffer for (7) years. That is a sad fact.
His priesthood has had to have been affected by the occult malefices, which are the warlocks stock & trade :facepalm:
Pfeiffer’s warlock has a mission to disrupt the TLM movement as much as possible. This no passing accusation. We’ve observed him for over 10 years.
I don’t think the priest’s exorcism is that far out of line. In fact, it may show prudence and discernment on the priest part to protect himself and his flock.
The Florida missions also have a “Most Wanted” type poster in the vestibules. These posters have the names of former parishioners who, if the ushers see them, must report them to the priest.I was in the Sanford church recently and did not notice a poster like that, I will look for it next time I’m near there but…it doesn’t surprise me
Has the foul-mouthed toilet plunger priest been back yet?
I was in the Sanford church recently and did not notice a poster like that, I will look for it next time I’m near there but…it doesn’t surprise me
I haven’t seen him since. He was funny, though, I have to admit. :laugh1:Can you share the name of this Priest? Curiosity has got the best of me…
Can you share the name of this Priest? Curiosity has got the best of me…
I forgot his name. I think he was from South America on a visit to Sanford. The video was posted here a while back. I’m unsure if someone here still has the link to that thread, but it is pretty funny.https://youtu.be/E2p489GsfFQ?si=3G9M_YoWcAPAhj53
https://youtu.be/E2p489GsfFQ?si=3G9M_YoWcAPAhj53
https://youtu.be/E2p489GsfFQ?si=3G9M_YoWcAPAhj53
Though you make valid comments, having been present at what occurred there, with all due respect I think you’re giving too much credit to the Sanford prior. As I don’t want to be uncharitable, there is even more to the Sanford story as relates to the owners of the home where the private Mass was held by Fr.Hewko ( Fr. Pfeiffer was also there BTW), the family moved to that house to be near the chapel and the school. They were treated unfairly by the Prior in a most uncharitable way. I’ll refrain from commenting further as I don’t want to be guilty of spreading a story like this, true though it is.
Let's just say its a good thing most here don't understand Spanish! Sheesh!I had a friend translate what he said, is he really a Priest? Can’t even post what he said as it’s beyond poor taste to do so, wow!
The Florida missions also have a “Most Wanted” type poster in the vestibules. These posters have the names of former parishioners who, if the ushers see them, must report them to the priest.Can confirm in at least one Florida SSPX mission that this exists
Can confirm in at least one Florida SSPX mission that this existsDear jman123,
Dear jman123,Not bizarre at all, common practice in the SSPX.
Does this mean that the "wanted faithful" are not allowed to assist at the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass or cannot receive any of the Sacraments? This is extremely bizarre and disturbing!
Dear jman123,Not allowed in.
Does this mean that the "wanted faithful" are not allowed to assist at the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass or cannot receive any of the Sacraments? This is extremely bizarre and disturbing!
Not allowed in.Dear jman123,
I have become very disillusioned with the SSPX. Only a few good priests remain from+Williamson days. New priests are very sub par. Can't even compare them to the old timers who are rock solid.
SSPX Florida is so messed up on so many levels. I get scrubbed from SSPX Facebook group when I question things.
Dear jman123,—Texana I doubt anyone here can answer these questions. The posters don’t say what the infractions are they are very nebulous. I think(and I’m my speculating) that these orders come from the Prior and not the Priest.
What infractions warrant being banned? Is there an "appeals tribunal" or is it an arbitrary sentence by any priest? What if you move your family to be close to the chapel, buy a house, and then fall into disfavor?
The Florida missions also have a “Most Wanted” type poster in the vestibules. These posters have the names of former parishioners who, if the ushers see them, must report them to the priest.
Apparently reading this thread has affected my subconscious...
I had a dream last night that I visited one of the FL SSPX chapels with a friend. The priest there recognized us for some reason (I guess we were on the wanted list). Well, he had this cardboard looking host which he broke into 4 pieces and gave pieces of that to me and the other person and then he refused to give us real Communion. :jester:
Anyhow... Nothing really to do with the subject except that reading this thread before last night probably helped cause me to have the dream. I thought that it might give you all a good laugh. :laugh1: :laugh2:
Apparently reading this thread has affected my subconscious...Dear AMCGJMJ,
I had a dream last night that I visited one of the FL SSPX chapels with a friend. The priest there recognized us for some reason (I guess we were on the wanted list). Well, he had this cardboard looking host which he broke into 4 pieces and gave pieces of that to me and the other person and then he refused to give us real Communion. :jester:
Anyhow... Nothing really to do with the subject except that reading this thread before last night probably helped cause me to have the dream. I thought that it might give you all a good laugh. :laugh1: :laugh2:
—Texana I doubt anyone here can answer these questions. The posters don’t say what the infractions are they are very nebulous. I think(and I’m my speculating) that these orders come from the Prior and not the Priest.Dear Jr1991,
Here are some photos from the confirmations that took place today. I got these photos from a twitter postThanks for the photos. I agree with Gio; it’s just an ugly-looking Novus Ordo church.
https://twitter.com/vrody_jerome_/status/1713209634280939691?t=o0JctyDhJKj7e8U_IUv0bg&s=19
They don't even have the excuse that it was a beautiful traditional church.
It is just a cheap ugly Novus Ordo building.
Did anyone say why the Confirmations were held in this church?They said it was because they did not have enough space at the SSPX chapel. I bet the banquet hall in Davie will be nicer than this Church.
Dear jman123,That’s exactly what happened to the family alluded to in a previous post where Fr. Hewko offered the Mass, I was privy to that
What infractions warrant being banned? Is there an "appeals tribunal" or is it an arbitrary sentence by any priest? What if you move your family to be close to the chapel, buy a house, and then fall into disfavor?
That’s exactly what happened to the family alluded to in a previous post where Fr. Hewko offered the Mass, I was privy to thatDear jersey60,
Dear jersey60,That I do not know but I assumed just the Sanford chapel, they lived right across the street from the chapel but recently moved from there I understand
What happened to them? Are they banned from all SSPX chapels in Florida or in the entire country?
Did anyone say why the Confirmations were held in this church?Given the number of people attending, they needed a bigger facility.
That I do not know but I assumed just the Sanford chapel, they lived right across the street from the chapel but recently moved from there I understand
According to this report, the two collections went to the diocese and parish:
https://gloria.tv/post/Ace7kwe9BsVh1y38KFzkSCNAZ
Hearing credible reports that a Monsignor Castaneda (Novus Ordo) assisted today. Unreal.Dear CatholicInAmerica,
According to this report, the two collections went to the diocese and parish:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
https://gloria.tv/post/Ace7kwe9BsVh1y38KFzkSCNAZ
SSPX Florida posts video of the sacrilege: https://www.youtube.com/watch/v=MixKe7-OWYOMaybe there were a lot of people who objected to going to this church, because it's novus ordo
"Confirmations & Pontifical Mass"
Notice the empty pews for 66 confirmands. "We are grateful to Father Jeremiah Paine and Bishop Noonan for allowing us to use this large church."
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais admonishes the confirmands to "fight the enemies of the Church" and "to convert others to the Catholic faith". Gone are the warnings, "You must fight ze freemasons! You must fight ze modernists!" we heard Bishop Tissier say years ago.
Maybe there were a lot of people who objected to going to this church, because it's novus ordo.
.
Probably yes.
It's also ridiculous to use that place because of "too many" confirmands for their actual place. You could have them lined up out the door and down the street if you had to, and have them come in one batch at a time, even if you had thousands of confirmands. The street is basically infinite in size for practical purposes.
I was confirmed back in March of this year in Syracuse, NY. Same thing, it was done at a NO church for the same reasons. The priory chapel in Syracuse is very small and Sunday Mass is in the gymnasium. At the time it made sense, but now it seems like it is to warm parishioners up to capitulating with NO.
...and therefore the true reason becomes more obvious.Dear Sean,
SSPX Florida posts video of the sacrilege: https://www.youtube.com/watch/v=MixKe7-OWYOThis vid is gone.
"Confirmations & Pontifical Mass"
Notice the empty pews for 66 confirmands. "We are grateful to Father Jeremiah Paine and Bishop Noonan for allowing us to use this large church."
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais admonishes the confirmands to "fight the enemies of the Church" and "to convert others to the Catholic faith". Gone are the warnings, "You must fight ze freemasons! You must fight ze modernists!" we heard Bishop Tissier say years ago.
This vid is gone.The SSPX is scrambling. See the video I posted before it’s gone.
The SSPX is scrambling. See the video I posted before it’s gone.I see it now. The original link you posted is corrupted. The actual vid is there.
Here is the link to the mass. See it before the SSPX takes it down. By the looks of it they could easily fit the attendees into the Sanford chapel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MixKe7-0WY0&pp=ygUMc3NweCBmbG9yaWRh
Notice at 4:11, a priest in a cassock at the front of the church gets up, walks out into the aisle, and bows instead of genuflecting. He then walks around talking with various parties until exiting the chapel a minute later (where you can get a pretty good look at his face at 5:50).That’s an SSPX priest. I have never seen an Orlando Diocesan priest ever wear a cassock.
Question: Is that an SSPX priest adopting the irreverent Novus Ordo practice, or a diocesan priest acclimating the SSPX “faithful” to how things are done in the “official” church?
The announcements by the lay lector at 1:53 amend/correct the earlier report by Gloria.tv, that the two collections went to the diocese and parish: they went to the bishop and the parish.Wow, you’re right. So that means all the collections go to Noonan and the Novus Ordo Church.
Looking at it again I can’t tell if it’s an SSPX priest so I will retract my first statement. But I’ve never seen a priest in the Orlando diocese wear a cassock.There are at least two priests in my diocese who regularly wear the cassock out into the secular world. One of them was having breakfast one morning at Panera Bread while I was there.
Does anyone know if the priest was bowing instead of genuflecting because the Novus Ordo hosts were removed, and the tabernacle empty?From an email from my priest when I asked about the confirmations in Syracuse being held at a NO church.
Hard to imagine the SSPX requesting, or conciliar priest granting, such a request, when the pretext for using the building is a favor, but just trying to see all possibilities.
From an email from my priest when I asked about the confirmations in Syracuse being held at a NO church.
"When we use a church in which the Novus Ordo Mass is celebrated for our Mass, we consecrate hosts for those who communicate at our Mass and do not mix them with those reserved in the tabernacle which could reasonably be presumed to have been consecrated at a Novus Ordo Mass. This is to avoid any doubts that may arise."
Here is the link to the mass. See it before the SSPX takes it down. By the looks of it they could easily fit the attendees into the Sanford chapel.
Hearing credible reports that a Monsignor Castaneda (Novus Ordo) assisted today. Unreal.Can confirm. I was present at the Davie FL confirmations. He attended in choro
Can confirm. I was present at the Davie FL confirmations. He attended in choroCastaneda is one of the priests stationed at the Archdiocese indult mass. This is absolutely surreal! He must have received permission from Wenski.
Did anyone have time to listen to the sermon?+Tissier urged everyone to fight freemasons
Certainly, +TDM did not have the bad manners to offend his hosts by saying anything against V2?
“We will never compromise!!”
::)
Castaneda is one of the priests stationed at the Archdiocese indult mass. This is absolutely surreal! He must have received permission from Wenski.Of course. Priests can't really do much without permission of Bishop.
+Tissier urged everyone to fight freemasons
I doubt anyone in attendance even knows what a Freemason is since most simply transferred from the Novus Ordo in the past two yearsAgree. Man sitting next to me was saying Holy Spirit instead of Holy Ghost
Agree. Man sitting next to me was saying Holy Spirit instead of Holy Ghost
I don't know about the size of the Sanford chapel, but this is a constant issue for confirmations, and most chapels just deal with it, reserving spots for the Confirmands, their Sponsors, and their family first ... and the rest are mostly there to experience a Pontifical Mass and are there first-come-first-serve. This was nothing more than an excuse used to acclimate the faithful to closer cooperation with the Conciliar Church.
+Tissier urged everyone to fight freemasonsDear Sean and jman123,
RE: SanfordFr Settimo is a SSPX priest who joined from the Novus Ordo
Who is Fr. Sedimo? It was announced that he was hearing confessions in a room at the back before the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass.
Ironic that Bishop Tissier would preach about St. Perpetua and her unwillingness to offer just a grain of incense to the honor of the Emperors in order to save her child and herself (29:20).
Who are the 2 martyrs from a Florida village to the north who were tortured and burned alive? Bishop Tissier stated (34:53)"...they are in heaven they are praying to us for us that they obtain for us there such a courage..." Are they part of the 86 Florida martyrs whose cause for sainthood was opened in Oct. 2015 by the Florida novus ordo bishops?
Dear Sean and jman123,He mentioned Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ in Davie Florida sermon
In Sanford, Bishop Tissier stated (21:16) "...in front of those enemies of the Church you will be yes stgrenthened by the Holy Ghost to face the enemies of the Church...". No mention of Freemasons or Modernists, as he emphasized in North Richland Hills several years ago. Perhaps he censored himself in a novus ordo meeting house?
Fr Settimo is a SSPX priest who joined from the Novus Ordo
Ironic that Bishop Tissier would preach about St. Perpetua and her unwillingness to offer just a grain of incense to the honor of the Emperors in order to save her child and herself (29:20).
Let me guess, NOT conditionally ordained ... and probably not adequately trained.From what I’ve been told, you may be correct
Local politicians are now hailing Bishop Tissier. Does Francis Suarez know the SSPX left the parishioners in his backyard high and dry when they sold off St. Philomena and left the mass-goers on the street?The mayor of Miami probably doesn’t know (nor care, sadly). I think the prior has his hands in it. When I was still going there, saw Congresman Mica at the time at a dinner for the slain French priest around 2015. On Facebook I’ve seen pictures of the prior at a local bar that sponsors the priory at some local Republican events. Others can elaborate better on the politics but that’s that.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/311678814919378
The mayor of Miami probably doesn’t know (nor care, sadly). I think the prior has his hands in it. When I was still going there, saw Congresman Mica at the time at a dinner for the slain French priest around 2015. On Facebook I’ve seen pictures of the prior at a local bar that sponsors the priory at some local Republican events. Others can elaborate better on the politics but that’s that.
Meanwhile and back to the point, poor Father Hopkins left his church to the SSPX only to be sold and a bishop gets an award for showing up once every 10 years. You can’t make this stuff up.
Added some important details. Thanks for reporting on this. What a sad state the new-sspx is in.Local politiciansFreemasons are now hailing Bishop Tissier.
Fr. Hewko's sermon on this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ9z_32eHFQDear eddiearent,