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Author Topic: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church  (Read 20533 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2023, 10:54:49 AM »
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  • This ☝️☝️☝️☝️

    Not that you are as old as I, but the younger members of this forum, and many young trads in general, have been so indoctrinated with the modern world that they can’t grasp what you are trying to convey.

    Novus Ordo revels in such displays, where they show nuns and priests doing absurd secular things like participating in dance contests, rapping, and engaging in all manner of frivolity that is not becoming to their state in life.  As another poster stated, the clerical garb has always been a sign of death to the world and of separate from the world (i.e., sacred-ness), and this admixture of the sacred and the profane borders upon sacrilege against their state in life.  No one is saying that there's anything inherently wrong with riding a roller coaster, just that the public display of such activities is disedifying and is contrary to the dignity of their state in life.  There's nothing sinful about going to the bathroom and doing a number 2, but you wouldn't do that in public either.

    This actually is the Vatican II spirit in microcosm, where it shows the Church opening up the "windows" to the world, and blending in with the world, to become more "relevant".

    I know an Eastern Rite priest who likes to mix it up with the parishioners, going out drinking with them, bowling, playing basketball with them, etc.  Nobody wants to go to Confession to him, despite his constant attempts to persuade people to go to the Sacrament, and that's because ... who wants to go to Confession to your bowling buddy?  Excessive familiarity breeds contempt and loss of respect.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #61 on: October 07, 2023, 10:58:46 AM »
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  • Seems childish at best.  I don't know of any men who would call each other up and say, 'let's go to Disneyland and ride the rides!!!'  People of every walk of life need some recreation but grown men going to play on the rides at an 'amusement park'?



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #62 on: October 07, 2023, 10:58:50 AM »
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  • I don't see it as sinful for SSPX priests to go to Sea World. It seems Puritanistic to assume that it's sinful. Recreation is not an unreasonable thing for Catholic priests to engage in.

    ... another one who's lost a sense of the sacred.  It's not about whether recreation is permitted, but about putting priests on public display engaging in frivolity, thereby creating disedification and loss of respect for the clerical state.  They should not engage in such public displays.  You're confusing retaining a sense of the sacred with "Puritanism".

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #63 on: October 07, 2023, 11:01:04 AM »
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  • ... another one who's lost a sense of the sacred.

    Are Catholic priests never allowed recreation? Are they to spend every minute of every day in prayer and reflection? How much prayer and reflection do you do every day? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #64 on: October 07, 2023, 11:03:30 AM »
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  • Seems childish at best.  I don't know of any men who would call each other up and say, 'let's go to Disneyland and ride the rides!!!'  People of every walk walk of life need recreation in some form but grown men going to play on the rides at an 'amusement park'?

    Right, and combine that childishness with their state in life ...


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #65 on: October 07, 2023, 11:04:08 AM »
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  • Are Catholic priests never allowed recreation? Are they to spend every minute of every day in prayer and reflection? How much prayer and reflection do you do every day?

    Which part of the "public" aspect did you miss?  And which part of the fact their their priests did you miss?  "Recreation" is built into most religious rules.  It's not about recreation, but about public displays of frivolity leading to disedification and disrespect for the priestly state.  Next let's have the priest knocking back pints at the local pub sitting next to immodestly-dressed females looking for one-night stands.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #66 on: October 07, 2023, 11:07:10 AM »
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  • Which part of the "public" aspect did you miss?  And which part of the fact their their priests did you miss?  "Recreation" is built into most religious rules.  It's not about recreation, but about public displays of frivolity leading to disedification and disrespect for the priestly state.  Next let's have the priest knocking back pints at the local pub sitting next to immodestly-dressed females looking for one-night stands.

    I thank God that I'm not a Puritan. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #67 on: October 07, 2023, 11:32:58 AM »
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  • I thank God that I'm not a Puritan.

    So that's your best "refutation", declaring me a Puritan.  You're failing to distinguish between the instrinsic nature of the act and disedification caused by it.  It's not sinful to flatulate either, but if a priest were walking around blowing farts, belching out loud, and laughing about it, would that not be an offense to the clerical state?  There's a dignity of state that must be upheld.  Theologians are quite clear that certain things are dependent upon one's state in life.  It's no sin for some hillbilly living in a trailer somewhere to belch and fart in public, but it would be for a priest or nun to behave the same way, due to the dignity of their stage.  But you're not capable of making "distinctions," as you've proved over and over again here.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #68 on: October 07, 2023, 11:34:32 AM »
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  • So that's your best "refutation", declaring me a Puritan.  You're failing to distinguish between the instrinsic nature of the act and disedification caused by it.  It's not sinful to flatulate either, but if a priest were walking around blowing farts, belching out loud, and laughing about it, would that not be an offense to the clerical state?

    A priest is a human being, not a god. I just don't believe that going on rides at Sea World is an occasion of sin for them.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #69 on: October 07, 2023, 11:36:20 AM »
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  • A priest is a human being, not a god.

    Still no substantive response.  False dilemma.  Priest is not some average run of the mill individual either.  He's a man who's dedicated and consecrated to God, and an Alter Christus.  He acts in persona Christi, so in a way he IS God, because he carries around the character of Our Lord.

    You make no allowance for their state in life, throwing out this false dichotomy between a human being and God, as if all things permitted to human beings in general would be permitted to a priest.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #70 on: October 07, 2023, 11:37:52 AM »
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  • Still no substantive response.  False dilemma.  Priest is not some average run of the mill individual either.  He's a man who's dedicated and consecrated to God, and an Alter Christus.  He acts in persona Christi, so in a way he IS God, because he carries around the character of Our Lord.

    The only response or explanation that you will accept is one that is in agreement with you. I can't do that. I do not see any priest as God, just as I do not see any Pope as God. I'd like to think that I'm more realistic than you.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #71 on: October 07, 2023, 11:56:08 AM »
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  • We should focus on this portion of Pius X's comments:

    “If, on the contrary, he forgets the holiness of the sacred character which he bears indelibly impressed and engraved on his soul, and if he fails to show in his outward conduct a gravity superior to that of certain men of the world, then he causes his ministry and religion itself to be despised. For when gravity is wanting in its leaders, the people lose respect and veneration for them.”  

    The Novus Ordo priests behave like the ones in the OP.  How many people are drawn to the Catholic Faith because of this type of behavior? It might draw people to the Novus Ordo faith, but not the Catholic Faith. Unless these SSPX priests want to be like the NO priests, they had better make better choices.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: +Tissier to Offer Confirmations in Novus Ordo Church
    « Reply #72 on: October 07, 2023, 12:01:39 PM »
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  • We should focus on this portion of Pius X's comments:

    “If, on the contrary, he forgets the holiness of the sacred character which he bears indelibly impressed and engraved on his soul, and if he fails to show in his outward conduct a gravity superior to that of certain men of the world, then he causes his ministry and religion itself to be despised. For when gravity is wanting in its leaders, the people lose respect and veneration for them.”

    The Novus Ordo priests behave like the ones in the OP.  How many people are drawn to the Catholic Faith because of this type of behavior? It might draw people to the Novus Ordo faith, but not the Catholic Faith. Unless these SSPX priests want to be like the NO priests, they had better make better choices.

    How can religion be despised because a few priests go to Sea World? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Incredulous

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  • Man… talk about “bait & switch”!

    Trento did a slick job of derailing the topic.

    Where’s the discussion on the implications of Bp. Tissier offering authentic, Holy Sacraments in a desacralized Novus ordo church?

    :popcorn:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline trento

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  • Man… talk about “bait & switch”!

    Trento did a slick job of derailing the topic.

    Where’s the discussion on the implications of Bp. Tissier offering authentic, Holy Sacraments in a desacralized Novus ordo church?

    :popcorn:

    I thought someone else started it by posting the rollercoaster pictures. :confused:

    As for the topic of +Tissier offering sacraments in a NO building, wasn't it answered with examples from the pre-Resistance times?