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Author Topic: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please  (Read 8870 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2024, 08:52:16 AM »
Quote from: Twice dyed on November 18, 2024, 10:51:53 PM
Sometime near the end he remarked that he " had withheld his intention" ...during a consecration of a bishop
.

No, he didn't. This story is false.
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Offline josefamenendez

Re: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2024, 08:53:25 AM »
Aren't the requirements to confect a sacrament form matter and intent? ( and valid minister?)
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2024, 09:27:47 AM »
Quote from: Yeti on November 19, 2024, 08:52:16 AM
No, he didn't. This story is false.

Correct.  This guy has been on here with no other purpose than to slander +Thuc bishops and SVs in general.

So the origin of this false rumor is that at one point Archbishop Thuc did, under pressure, participate in some concelebration (on orders from the bishop where he was at), but he said that he was in the ceremony but withheld his intention to participate and to "consecrate" during that concelebrated Mass.

At no time did he state that he withheld intention to consecrate anyone.  Now, there were some who falsely claimed that they were consecrated by +Thuc that +Thuc denied having consecrated, but he always affirmed and re-affirmed having consecrated the major episcopal lines active in the US currently.

There are some shady lines out there that need to be avoided where there's no proof that the originator of the line was actually consecrated, but the line through DesLauriers and Carmona are certainly valid.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2024, 09:53:24 AM »
Quote from: Godefroy on November 19, 2024, 08:47:06 AM
How does withdrawing intention render a consecration invalid? Where is this stipulated in canon law?

Without the Catholic priest believing in the real presence, there have been eucharistic miracles.

And with the best intention in a world, an Anglican cannot consecrate a host, because he is not a valid minister.

Good question.  I actually was in the minority on this question in many long heated-argument threads.  I agree with you.  Internally withholding intention does not invalidate the Sacrament if there's no outward manifestation that you're not intending to do WHAT the Church does (such as if you're goofing around or play-acting).

I always make this analogy.  I hold a loaded gun up to someone's head and pull the trigger, but in my mind say, "I don't mean to kill this man."  No, you intended to kill him, because in intending the cause you intend the effect.  Church stipulates that you have to intend to DO what the Church DOES, not intend what the Church intends by the action.  But that's a digression here I'd rather not reopen.

+Thuc did not ever say he withheld intention for any episcopal consecrations.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Thuc Achievements....correct me if I'm wrong please
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2024, 09:54:38 AM »
Quote from: josefamenendez on November 19, 2024, 08:53:25 AM
Aren't the requirements to confect a sacrament form matter and intent? ( and valid minister?)

Yes, but there's some disagreement regarding the nature of said "intent".
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