Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: ManuelChavez

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Just as well Fr. Pfeiffer's discussion is posted here, because Manuel already flushed his down the memory hole! That's journalism at it's absolute worst Manuel..

Fr. claims it's indisputable that Moran is a priest and bishop, and 4 days later they ditched him. What exactly is OLMC's "truth"?

It's very interesting. Fr Pfeiffer says Tony Larosa(?) confirmed the fraudster's incardination in Toronto, but if I recall correct, Tony was the one who got docuмented confirmation from the Toronto Eparchy that "Archbishop" Moran's claim is fraudulent, he was never incardinated in Toronto.
It's also interesting how fast Fr. dismissed the claims of Papal Privilege and Universal Jurisdiction when a questioner brought them up. Obviously Fr. was already picking and choosing from Billy Moran's Buffet of Baloney. He sure wasn't swallowing all of it, even himself!!!

I removed it upon a personal and private request, which I felt I should honor.

To call you a hack would be more flattery than you deserve.

Why do you feel the need to insult me? What have I done that has offended you so?

Because you are promoting/defending the circus that is Pfeifferville and that is perilous to souls.  And all the more so because you are feigning (ever so roughly) to be doing so in an unbiased journalistic style.

You are as big of a joke as the kid who briefly covered Bawden's antics for our amusement.  But you are less of a laughing matter though because more souls are at stake and souls that have been in good stead are being lead astray and are at stake.

Quote from: Centroamerica

At 28 minutes he says something extremely suspect to me.  He claims that if you were ever once Catholic and leave to join some Protestant 'church' or Orthodox 'church' you remain Catholic, though you have sinned against your Faith.  I would have to listen again, but I am asking if someone can help me understand what he is saying here.
 

The indelible mark of baptism.  I expect the indelible mark has made for a hotter seat for many souls in hell.  Same with holy orders--once a priest always a priest.  These indelible marks provide many graces for souls to get to heaven.  Those who squander these graces and turn their backs on who they are (children of God--Catholics, priests) I expect have much more suffering for it in hell.  One cannot escape the indelible mark of his baptism.

It is true that once you are baptized it leaves an indelible mark on your soul, but it is very false to claim that an heretic or an apostate is still a Catholic. According to Pope Pius XII, you need to be baptized, profess the Catholic Faith and not be cut off be legitimate authority. Neither an heretic nor an apostate profess the Catholic faith. What Father P. Alleges is absolutely false. I heard this error before from a friend of mine who attends an SSPX mass and from other SSPX connected sources. This is a widespread error in SSPX circles.

Think people, if this thinking is correct then Martin Luther died a Catholic!

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Centroamerica

At 28 minutes he says something extremely suspect to me.  He claims that if you were ever once Catholic and leave to join some Protestant 'church' or Orthodox 'church' you remain Catholic, though you have sinned against your Faith.  I would have to listen again, but I am asking if someone can help me understand what he is saying here.
 

The indelible mark of baptism.  I expect the indelible mark has made for a hotter seat for many souls in hell.  Same with holy orders--once a priest always a priest.  These indelible marks provide many graces for souls to get to heaven.  Those who squander these graces and turn their backs on who they are (children of God--Catholics, priests) I expect have much more suffering for it in hell.  One cannot escape the indelible mark of his baptism.

It is true that once you are baptized it leaves an indelible mark on your soul, but it is very false to claim that an heretic or an apostate is still a Catholic. According to Pope Pius XII, you need to be baptized, profess the Catholic Faith and not be cut off be legitimate authority. Neither an heretic nor an apostate profess the Catholic faith. What Father P. Alleges is absolutely false. I heard this error before from a friend of mine who attends an SSPX mass and from other SSPX connected sources. This is a widespread error in SSPX circles.

Think people, if this thinking is correct then Martin Luther died a Catholic!

I think there is some confusion in the understanding of being a baptized Catholic.  I was always taught that yes, once baptized as a Catholic the indelible mark on your soul remains whether or not you are a "practicing" Catholic or not.  Therefore, Martin Luther would have been judged as a Catholic who had left the Faith and was no longer a "practicing" Catholic.  Once a Catholic, always a Catholic and you will be judged that way which means woe is you if you have rejected the Faith.

Quote from: Recusant Sede

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Centroamerica

At 28 minutes ...He claims that if you were ever once Catholic and leave to join some Protestant 'church' or Orthodox 'church' you remain Catholic, though you have sinned against your Faith.  I would have to listen again, but I am asking if someone can help me understand what he is saying here.

The indelible mark of baptism. ....

It is true that once you are baptized it leaves an indelible mark on your soul, but it is very false to claim that an heretic or an apostate is still a Catholic...

  I was always taught that yes, once baptized as a Catholic the indelible mark on your soul remains whether or not you are a "practicing" Catholic or not.  Therefore, Martin Luther would have been judged as a Catholic who had left the Faith and was no longer a "practicing" Catholic.  Once a Catholic, always a Catholic and you will be judged that way which means woe is you if you have rejected the Faith.

Exactly, covet truth.  

Let's not get too bogged down on this one point.  If Fr. Pfeiffer meant it WRT the indelible mark of Baptism, it was completely irrelevant to the point at hand, and weird that he even mentioned it in the context of Ambrose potentially having been schismatic for a while.

I also find it very disturbing that Father Pfeiffer keeps claiming that Moran was incardinated into the Toronto Eparchy......that is blatantly false! Even Moran's own "evidence" doesn't back that claim.

These are the kinds of points that are very relevant to his talk.  

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Recusant Sede

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Centroamerica

At 28 minutes he says something extremely suspect to me.  He claims that if you were ever once Catholic and leave to join some Protestant 'church' or Orthodox 'church' you remain Catholic, though you have sinned against your Faith.  I would have to listen again, but I am asking if someone can help me understand what he is saying here.
 

The indelible mark of baptism.  I expect the indelible mark has made for a hotter seat for many souls in hell.  Same with holy orders--once a priest always a priest.  These indelible marks provide many graces for souls to get to heaven.  Those who squander these graces and turn their backs on who they are (children of God--Catholics, priests) I expect have much more suffering for it in hell.  One cannot escape the indelible mark of his baptism.

It is true that once you are baptized it leaves an indelible mark on your soul, but it is very false to claim that an heretic or an apostate is still a Catholic. According to Pope Pius XII, you need to be baptized, profess the Catholic Faith and not be cut off be legitimate authority. Neither an heretic nor an apostate profess the Catholic faith. What Father P. Alleges is absolutely false. I heard this error before from a friend of mine who attends an SSPX mass and from other SSPX connected sources. This is a widespread error in SSPX circles.

Think people, if this thinking is correct then Martin Luther died a Catholic!

Yes!!  Martin Luther died a Catholic priest.  Not only that, Martin Luther will be a Catholic priest for all eternity.  Allow that to sink in.

Tell me then:

1) Did Martin Luther die a member of the Catholic Church or the Luthern
church?

2)  Are all validly baptized adults Catholics, no matter if they are members of a Protestant or Schismatic sect?

3) Are children who are validly baptized in a non-Catholic church, members of the Catholic Church?

1) He died as an apostate Catholic priest. That's how he would have been judged unless somehow he repented at the end.  He had the Faith but rejected it.

2) If properly baptized, both matter and form, then it is valid and they are Catholic but not held to the same standard through ignorance.  One can only be validly baptized once.

3) Yes, if proper matter and form have been used.  However, they are not held culpable because they are ignorant of the Truth and are being brought up in a false religion.    

As to validly baptized adults, when they are given the actual grace by God to seek the truth but knowingly do not do so or turn away from it then they will no longer be ignorant and will held accountable.  See why it's so important for the validly baptized to be converted to the True Faith.


I didn't want to de-rail this thread but these are important questions that I hope I have answered correctly.  If I have misspoken in my answers I will stand corrected.  

Quote from: Recusant Sede

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Recusant Sede

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: Centroamerica

At 28 minutes he says something extremely suspect to me.  He claims that if you were ever once Catholic and leave to join some Protestant 'church' or Orthodox 'church' you remain Catholic, though you have sinned against your Faith.  I would have to listen again, but I am asking if someone can help me understand what he is saying here.
 

The indelible mark of baptism.  I expect the indelible mark has made for a hotter seat for many souls in hell.  Same with holy orders--once a priest always a priest.  These indelible marks provide many graces for souls to get to heaven.  Those who squander these graces and turn their backs on who they are (children of God--Catholics, priests) I expect have much more suffering for it in hell.  One cannot escape the indelible mark of his baptism.

It is true that once you are baptized it leaves an indelible mark on your soul, but it is very false to claim that an heretic or an apostate is still a Catholic. According to Pope Pius XII, you need to be baptized, profess the Catholic Faith and not be cut off be legitimate authority. Neither an heretic nor an apostate profess the Catholic faith. What Father P. Alleges is absolutely false. I heard this error before from a friend of mine who attends an SSPX mass and from other SSPX connected sources. This is a widespread error in SSPX circles.

Think people, if this thinking is correct then Martin Luther died a Catholic!

Yes!!  Martin Luther died a Catholic priest.  Not only that, Martin Luther will be a Catholic priest for all eternity.  Allow that to sink in.

Tell me then:

1) Did Martin Luther die a member of the Catholic Church or the Luthern
church?

2)  Are all validly baptized adults Catholics, no matter if they are members of a Protestant or Schismatic sect?

3) Are children who are validly baptized in a non-Catholic church, members of the Catholic Church?

1) He died as an apostate Catholic priest. That's how he would have been judged unless somehow he repented at the end.  He had the Faith but rejected it.

2) If properly baptized, both matter and form, then it is valid and they are Catholic but not held to the same standard through ignorance.  One can only be validly baptized once.

3) Yes, if proper matter and form have been used.  However, they are not held culpable because they are ignorant of the Truth and are being brought up in a false religion.    

As to validly baptized adults, when they are given the actual grace by God to seek the truth but knowingly do not do so or turn away from it then they will no longer be ignorant and will held accountable.  See why it's so important for the validly baptized to be converted to the True Faith.


I didn't want to de-rail this thread but these are important questions that I hope I have answered correctly.  If I have misspoken in my answers I will stand corrected.  

Not to belabor the point.  But since I am the one who was asked, I will say that, based on what I have been taught, I concur with what Covet says.