Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: BrJoseph on November 16, 2014, 06:32:40 PM
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http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/16/third-order-secular-of-st-francis-fraternity-established/
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http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/16/third-order-secular-of-st-francis-fraternity-established/
This is not a legitimate or valid third order.
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In light of the scarcity of options, let God be the judge. Thank you Fr. Hewko!
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This is not a legitimate or valid third order.
Why not?
Marsha
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This is not a legitimate or valid third order.
Why not?
Marsha
Fr. Pfiffer claims a supplied jurisdiction. However, the supplementary principle will not allow the arrogation of a power only conferred upon Ordinaries; the Church simply will not supply the necessary jurisdiction.
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Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?
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Because we have six professed members (professed within the Morgon France delegated to SSPX priest structure). We are not interested in joining the Third Order of the SSPX. The benefits of the TOSF are too numerous. Please see http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/08/third-order-of-st-francis-in-the-resistance/
Is it a valid order? This one can be disputed in a way. We did not receive permission from Morgon to establish the Fraternity. Father did not receive permission from Morgon to direct it.
However, the Resistance does what it can for souls. If Morgon can claim proper formation of their order, if the SSPX can claim supplied jurisdiction to justify the continuation of their order, we too can assume that we are on safe ground to set up a Fraternity and to help souls in their efforts to perfect themselves via the Franciscan formula.
Yes, we expect some criticism for this. Sorry.
If Franciscans (Morgon or otherwise) join the Resistance, we may even ask them to confirm our actions. Meanwhile, we trust that the Church will supply.
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Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?
The third order SSPX was at least based off of being a canonically founded religious order, I think.
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No, sorry.
The SSPX was founded as a Pious Union under the 1917 Code. Under the 1983 Code, and upon recognization they would become a Society of Apostolic Life.
Canonically speaking, as well-intentioned as Archbishop Lefebvre was, the SSPX 'Third Order' does not and will never exist, it cannot exist! A religious order (not congregation or society) needs to have a First and Second Order in order to have a Third Order. Only the great, major orders have them. The following are the only existing Third Orders:
Augustinian
Benedictine (not a Third Order properly speaking, but rather Oblates of individual houses)
Carmelite
Discalced Carmelite
Dominican
Franciscan
Mercedarian
Minim
Norbertine
Servite
Trinitarian
This is why many pre-Vatican II congregations had associated confraternities and societies but not Third Orders. For example the Redemptorists have the Confraternity of Our Mother of Perpetual Help and St. Alphonsus. The Jesuits the Apostleship of Prayer and the Happy Death Society.
As far as Motu Proprio groups (Societies of Apostolic Life), the FSSP has the Confraternity of St. Peter. The Institute of Christ the King has the Society of the Sacred Heart. The Fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer has an associated Confraternity of the Rosary. On the sedevacantist side, the CMRI has the Confraternity of Mary Immaculate Queen.
Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?
The third order SSPX was at least based off of being a canonically founded religious order, I think.
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So the SSPX cannot have a 3rd order because they are not actually an "order" themselves? Is that correct? Their 3rd should more accurately be called a Confraternity or Association?
Based on this description of TOSF:
"Let me elaborate on what may not be obvious from what I have written. The members of the Third Order share not only the merits earned by the Third Order currently living in one location, but in all the merits of the First Order (priests), the Second Order (religious brothers) and the Third Order everywhere in the world throughout history."
my question is if there are any valid 1st&2nd orders left after the devastation of V2?
Marsha
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Because we have six professed members (professed within the Morgon France delegated to SSPX priest structure). We are not interested in joining the Third Order of the SSPX. The benefits of the TOSF are too numerous. Please see http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/08/third-order-of-st-francis-in-the-resistance/
Is it a valid order? This one can be disputed in a way. We did not receive permission from Morgon to establish the Fraternity. Father did not receive permission from Morgon to direct it.
However, the Resistance does what it can for souls. If Morgon can claim proper formation of their order, if the SSPX can claim supplied jurisdiction to justify the continuation of their order, we too can assume that we are on safe ground to set up a Fraternity and to help souls in their efforts to perfect themselves via the Franciscan formula.
Yes, we expect some criticism for this. Sorry.
If Franciscans (Morgon or otherwise) join the Resistance, we may even ask them to confirm our actions. Meanwhile, we trust that the Church will supply.
Your intentions are no doubt honorable, but in reality, how is this different from +Fellay (with renegade) Dominicans starting a "new Dominican foundation" without the permission of the Dominican Fathers of Avrille? Except, of course for the fact that you are trying to keep the faith and the "new Dominican foundation" is betraying their Order and compromising the faith.
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In reality, since Morgon has ordered us to stay within the neo-SSPX, which we cannot obey due to their new direction, and since we could not get them to agree to have a Resistance priest as Director, we could not get their permission to establish a Fraternity.
As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.
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In reality, since Morgon has ordered us to stay within the neo-SSPX, which we cannot obey due to their new direction, and since we could not get them to agree to have a Resistance priest as Director, we could not get their permission to establish a Fraternity.
As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
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As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.
No She won't. As I have already explained, the Church will not allow the arrogation of a power only conferred upon Ordinaries. Supplied jurisdiction doesn't give carte blanche the arrogation of any and all power. It will only supply that jurisdictional power which the holder of an office would legitimately exercise. Hence, in the case of Fr. Pfeiffer, she would supply the power to absolve since that is a legitimate power of a pastor. However, since a pastor has no ordinary jurisdiction (save in the internal forum) he does not have the power to erect associations. Simply, she will not supply such jurisdictional power because pastors themselves do not legitimately exercise such a power.
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I find the tone of this announcement to be very disturbing.
Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer established ...
The district that Fr. Hewko will have control over is North America. ...
Fr. Pfeiffer has appointed ...
Shows all the signs of Fr. Pfeiffer pretending to have some kind of authority or jurisdiction.
How much longer until they hold a conclave in Boston, KY and elect Pope Shpudibush I?
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I find the tone of this announcement to be very disturbing.
Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer established ...
The district that Fr. Hewko will have control over is North America. ...
Fr. Pfeiffer has appointed ...
Shows all the signs of Fr. Pfeiffer pretending to have some kind of authority or jurisdiction.
The Resistance is already falling in to three camps:
i) Fr. Pfiffer (and Pablo) who want to erect a formal structure and hierarchy;
ii) Bp. Williamson (and 'the seer') who want this free association (since its all over, there is no Church) of anyone who dislikes Bp. Fellay;
iii) Resistance Sedevacantism like the German, Austrian & Hungarian Resistance.
How much longer until they hold a conclave in Boston, KY and elect Pope Shpudibush I?
Yes, and then he can start spamming resistance co-coordinators.
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Thank you Marie Auxiliadora. We will keep you in ours.