Author Topic: Third Order Franciscan Secular Fraternity for Resistance (Read 3428 times)

BrJoseph · « **on:** November 16, 2014, 06:32:40 PM »

http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/16/third-order-secular-of-st-francis-fraternity-established/

peterp · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2014, 07:54:27 PM »

Quote from: BrJoseph

http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/16/third-order-secular-of-st-francis-fraternity-established/

This is not a legitimate or valid third order.

holysoulsacademy · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2014, 07:59:26 PM »

In light of the scarcity of options, let God be the judge. Thank you Fr. Hewko!

Marlelar · « **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2014, 08:01:46 PM »

Quote from: peterp

This is not a legitimate or valid third order.

Why not?

Marsha

peterp · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2014, 08:28:57 PM »

Quote from: Marlelar

Quote from: peterp
This is not a legitimate or valid third order.

Why not?

Marsha

Fr. Pfiffer claims a supplied jurisdiction. However, the supplementary principle will not allow the arrogation of a power only conferred upon Ordinaries; the Church simply will not supply the necessary jurisdiction.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2014, 08:33:28 PM »

Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?

BrJoseph · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2014, 10:36:49 PM »

Because we have six professed members (professed within the Morgon France delegated to SSPX priest structure). We are not interested in joining the Third Order of the SSPX. The benefits of the TOSF are too numerous. Please see http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/08/third-order-of-st-francis-in-the-resistance/

Is it a valid order? This one can be disputed in a way. We did not receive permission from Morgon to establish the Fraternity. Father did not receive permission from Morgon to direct it.

However, the Resistance does what it can for souls. If Morgon can claim proper formation of their order, if the SSPX can claim supplied jurisdiction to justify the continuation of their order, we too can assume that we are on safe ground to set up a Fraternity and to help souls in their efforts to perfect themselves via the Franciscan formula.

Yes, we expect some criticism for this. Sorry.

If Franciscans (Morgon or otherwise) join the Resistance, we may even ask them to confirm our actions. Meanwhile, we trust that the Church will supply.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2014, 06:16:38 AM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?

The third order SSPX was at least based off of being a canonically founded religious order, I think.

obediens · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2014, 08:39:20 AM »

No, sorry.

The SSPX was founded as a Pious Union under the 1917 Code. Under the 1983 Code, and upon recognization they would become a Society of Apostolic Life.

Canonically speaking, as well-intentioned as Archbishop Lefebvre was, the SSPX 'Third Order' does not and will never exist, it cannot exist! A religious order (not congregation or society) needs to have a First and Second Order in order to have a Third Order. Only the great, major orders have them. The following are the only existing Third Orders:

Augustinian
Benedictine (not a Third Order properly speaking, but rather Oblates of individual houses)
Carmelite
Discalced Carmelite
Dominican
Franciscan
Mercedarian
Minim
Norbertine
Servite
Trinitarian

This is why many pre-Vatican II congregations had associated confraternities and societies but not Third Orders. For example the Redemptorists have the Confraternity of Our Mother of Perpetual Help and St. Alphonsus. The Jesuits the Apostleship of Prayer and the Happy Death Society.

As far as Motu Proprio groups (Societies of Apostolic Life), the FSSP has the Confraternity of St. Peter. The Institute of Christ the King has the Society of the Sacred Heart. The Fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer has an associated Confraternity of the Rosary. On the sedevacantist side, the CMRI has the Confraternity of Mary Immaculate Queen.

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: Pete Vere
Actually, peterp raises a good question. Why claim to establish a third order of the Franciscans rather than the SSPX-MC?

The third order SSPX was at least based off of being a canonically founded religious order, I think.

Marlelar · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2014, 10:28:33 AM »

So the SSPX cannot have a 3rd order because they are not actually an "order" themselves? Is that correct? Their 3rd should more accurately be called a Confraternity or Association?

Based on this description of TOSF:

"Let me elaborate on what may not be obvious from what I have written. The members of the Third Order share not only the merits earned by the Third Order currently living in one location, but in all the merits of the First Order (priests), the Second Order (religious brothers) and the Third Order everywhere in the world throughout history."

my question is if there are any valid 1st&2nd orders left after the devastation of V2?

Marsha

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2014, 10:53:20 AM »

Quote from: BrJoseph

Because we have six professed members (professed within the Morgon France delegated to SSPX priest structure). We are not interested in joining the Third Order of the SSPX. The benefits of the TOSF are too numerous. Please see http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/11/08/third-order-of-st-francis-in-the-resistance/

Is it a valid order? This one can be disputed in a way. We did not receive permission from Morgon to establish the Fraternity. Father did not receive permission from Morgon to direct it.

However, the Resistance does what it can for souls. If Morgon can claim proper formation of their order, if the SSPX can claim supplied jurisdiction to justify the continuation of their order, we too can assume that we are on safe ground to set up a Fraternity and to help souls in their efforts to perfect themselves via the Franciscan formula.

Yes, we expect some criticism for this. Sorry.

If Franciscans (Morgon or otherwise) join the Resistance, we may even ask them to confirm our actions. Meanwhile, we trust that the Church will supply.

Your intentions are no doubt honorable, but in reality, how is this different from +Fellay (with renegade) Dominicans starting a "new Dominican foundation" without the permission of the Dominican Fathers of Avrille? Except, of course for the fact that you are trying to keep the faith and the "new Dominican foundation" is betraying their Order and compromising the faith.

BrJoseph · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2014, 03:28:34 PM »

In reality, since Morgon has ordered us to stay within the neo-SSPX, which we cannot obey due to their new direction, and since we could not get them to agree to have a Resistance priest as Director, we could not get their permission to establish a Fraternity.

As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2014, 05:18:45 PM »

Quote from: BrJoseph

In reality, since Morgon has ordered us to stay within the neo-SSPX, which we cannot obey due to their new direction, and since we could not get them to agree to have a Resistance priest as Director, we could not get their permission to establish a Fraternity.

As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

peterp · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2014, 05:24:51 PM »

Quote from: BrJoseph

As I said, we trust that the Church will supply.

No She won't. As I have already explained, the Church will not allow the arrogation of a power only conferred upon Ordinaries. Supplied jurisdiction doesn't give carte blanche the arrogation of any and all power. It will only supply that jurisdictional power which the holder of an office would legitimately exercise. Hence, in the case of Fr. Pfeiffer, she would supply the power to absolve since that is a legitimate power of a pastor. However, since a pastor has no ordinary jurisdiction (save in the internal forum) he does not have the power to erect associations. Simply, she will not supply such jurisdictional power because pastors themselves do not legitimately exercise such a power.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2014, 05:49:45 PM »

I find the tone of this announcement to be very disturbing.

Quote

Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer established ...

The district that Fr. Hewko will have control over is North America. ...

Fr. Pfeiffer has appointed ...

Shows all the signs of Fr. Pfeiffer pretending to have some kind of authority or jurisdiction.

How much longer until they hold a conclave in Boston, KY and elect Pope Shpudibush I?