In a discussion on another thread, the topic of good bishops that resisted Vatican II came up.

Most people can only list 2 -- the ones who publicly stood up and were counted: Archbishop Lefebvre, and Bishop de Castro Mayer.

Which got me thinking, you could add 4 more bishops after June 30, 1988. These bishops also were completely against Vatican II, standing publicly for Tradition, but most impressive was their worldwide scope. Whereas groups like Campos, Brazil were mostly concerned with their own geographic area, the SSPX was extremely attractive because of their global, Catholic, scope.

Campos was willing to call off the fight as soon as Campos was promised the Latin Mass by Rome. They didn't have concern for the rest of the world.

But the SSPX of that time wouldn't lay down their arms until EVERYONE had free access to the Tridentine Mass, and until the Crisis was over for EVERYONE.

Sign me up -- that's something I can support!

Of course, in 2012 the SSPX began compromising in earnest, and the rest is history.

But just because someone (or a some group) fails doesn't mean it was a dead end all along. In this life, we don't have guarantees about anything. You take everything one day at a time, living in the present. Human beings have free will that only God can predict. You go with the best decision AT THE TIME. None of us can turbo-charge our knowledge -- which helps our virtue of Prudence to make the best decisions -- with events that are yet to take place!

Just because your wife leaves you doesn't mean that marriage is crap. It just means you chose poorly. Others might choose wisely; so much for anecdotal evidence. But the objective fact remains that marriage as an institution is a good thing, designed and blessed by God.


Yesterday (before 2012), I supported the SSPX.
Today, I support the Resistance. I was right then, and I am right today. I am supporting the most safe (i.e., with a Catholic spirit), the most un-compromised, traditional group that can help me and my family to keep the Faith.

We all have to find priests who can do this for us. If they are Catholic, traditional (against modernism, Vatican II) and validly ordained, that is all that really matters. We have to keep the faith, and not lose heart.

Quote from: Matthew

Yesterday (before 2012), I supported the SSPX.
Today, I support the Resistance. I was right then, and I am right today. I am supporting the most safe (i.e., with a Catholic spirit), the most un-compromised, traditional group that can help me and my family to keep the Faith.

We all have to find priests who can do this for us. If they are Catholic, traditional (against modernism, Vatican II) and validly ordained, that is all that really matters. We have to keep the faith, and not lose heart.

But is not this the very nature of subjectivism of which + Williamson all warned us ?

No, and I'd be happy to answer your question further:

1. It is not subjectivism, because there IS NO OBJECTIVE "BEST" when it comes to independent chapels (including those part of a group, but independent of Rome's authority), or if there is, there is no way for any of us to be certain of which one God would pick, or how God would rank them. All we have is *moral certainty* of which one we should go to. Moral certainty is enough for us to be able to make a personal decision. But moral certainty isn't sufficient for us to compel OTHERS to take a given course of action. Therefore, it lies in the realm of prudence. In prudential matters, there can be more than one right answer depending on the particulars of the situation (homeschool your kids vs. send them to Catholic school, or work from home vs. work a factory job, stay where you are or move to another city, etc.)

Catholic theologians even have a term for this: "Case by case".

Preppers in Texas don't have to worry about getting cold in the winter. Stocking up on a few dozen logs for the fireplace is all you'd need. But that same action would be most imprudent in North Dakota; you'd freeze to death. Likewise, a farmer with a creek or well on his property doesn't have to worry about water storage as much as a south Texan, who has to deal with a 3-month drought every Summer. There is literally no rain for 2-3 months every Summer.

2. Even if we had God's ranking of the various groups, that still wouldn't help us, because even within the same organization (SSPX, for example) there is a wide variety of chapels and priests. So it's going to depend on where you live. The people make the chapel, and so does the priest. There are SSPX chapels so different that you wouldn't believe they are from the same organization, if you didn't know better. So you really have to look into your options in a given area, and then make your decision "which one is most likely to help me keep the Faith, and least likely to cause problems later on". And yes, that is a prudential decision.

3. And of course time is a factor for us human beings stuck in time. If I lived in 1940 my local parish would be good enough. In 2000 I could go to an SSPX chapel. But in 2015, one might have to go to a Resistance location, even if the SSPX chapel was good enough in this same area just 5 years ago. Plus new chapels are born and old chapels die. Time changes everything, or at least the human element of everything.