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Author Topic: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?  (Read 3650 times)

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Re: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2019, 06:42:39 PM »
Pax Vobis, you admit you disagree with Archbishop Lefebvre's teaching and approach. Therefore, what you wrote is irrelevant to the important question of who, between the SSPX and Resistance, is more faithful to +ABL and is doing as H.G. would do in this situation.

Sean: Questions for you (1) Can you prove the Resistance has already denounced it more firmly than Rev. Fr. Pagliarani? According to your approach, it would be justified to break away from the Resistance if they have not already done so, on the flimsiest of speculations about the future. The Superior General clearly said, from memory, "we await the resumption of doctrinal discussions, with the awareness that Our Lord does not necessarily ask the Society to convince its interlocutors, but to bear unconditional witness to the Faith in the sight of the Church". That remains the Society's purpose and mission statement and there is nothing at all contrary to the Faith in it. If we give our best, God will do the rest. The Resistance is not doing its best to build up the Church or Tradition, but seems to be working against both (2) what benefit comes to you from splitting further Priests away from the Society now? Have the Resistance's predictions for 7 years come true? Has the Society become another Campos? No, they have not, and no it has not. Why? Because Summorum Pontificuм in 2007 and Universae Ecclesiae in 2011 have changed things. And now with the even more recent admission (2017?) that religious liberty, the new mass, ecuмenism and interfaith dialogue are all non-infallible and "open questions" which anyone can challenge, the situation is even more positively changed in favor of Tradition. What is necessary now is great unity of purpose among the Shepherds of Tradition and the flock, in continuing to pursue the course that has already brought forth those good fruits.

+ABL against division and necessity of relations with Rome when possible, as in today's situation: "I think that, like all traditionalist Catholics, you would like now to hear how things stand; at what point relations are between the Priestly Society of St. Pius X and the Vatican in Rome. So I shall give you a rapid summary. Why do I maintain relations with Rome? Why do I keep going to Rome? Because I think that Rome is the center of Catholicism, because I think that there cannot be any Catholic Church without Rome. Consequently, if our purpose is to find a way of setting the Church straight again, it is by turning to Rome that maybe, with the grace of God, we may perhaps manage to set the situation straight. It is not one single bishop like myself who can set the whole situation straight in the Catholic Church. That is why I strive to keep on going to Rome and to plead the cause of Tradition ... I ask you not to get into polemics, but simply to follow us. You now have here a magnificent chapel. Come and attend Mass in this chapel with the priests of the Society, and, in the various centers, bring about a regrouping of the faithful staying with the Society, so that they keep their bond with Rome and with the Church. It is very important that there should always be the bond with Rome if we wish to remain Catholic; even if we do not agree with everything being done in Rome, I think the bond is absolutely indispensable." http://archives.sspx.org/archbishop_lefebvre/long_island_conference_1983.htm

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 10:30:29 PM »
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Therefore, what you wrote is irrelevant to the important question of who, between the SSPX and Resistance, is more faithful to +ABL and is doing as H.G. would do in this situation.
Your analysis is fundamentally wrong, because you are asking the wrong question.  The question should be:  Who is more faithful to 2,000 years of catholic orthodoxy?
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+ABL created the sspx in an attempt to remain faithful to Church doctrine, which is a reiteration of God's unchanging, Eternal Truths.  You can spend all day picking out this +ABL quote or that +ABL quote and then debate til the cows come home about "what +ABL would do in this situation".  :facepalm:  What a complete waste of time!  +ABL would be the first person to admit that he doesn't have all the answers, that's he's not an oracle and that Church doctrine and Tradition trump all else.
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Any and all moral situations should be compared to doctrine, Scripture and Tradition.  These are the foundation of Catholicism.  V2 and the new mass are deviations and subversions of Eternal Truth, so they must be discarded, ignored and challenged.  This is what +ABL did when he was alive.  This is what Traditionalists did since the 60s til now.  This is what Traditionalists should continue to do.
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Now is not the time for any "deal" with new-rome.  You don't deal with the devil.  You wait for God to remove the evil or the obstacle, before you go forward.  Until God acts, then Traditionalists wait, preserve and protect the Faith, as they've been doing for 50 years.  We don't need +ABL alive to confirm this course of action; it's Catholic common sense.


Re: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2019, 10:46:52 PM »
The Society of St. Pius X trusts Archbishop Lefebvre. He was the Saint God raised up to help deal with the crisis. It's his Society that has now happily formed 650+ Priests to labor in the Lord's vineyard, and is going to form countless more in the decades to come, to carry the torch of Tradition.

I've not said +ABL is infallible, but +ABL is an authoritative guide on the Crisis, just like St. Athanasius is an authoritative guide on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. The word of this or that layman on the Holy Trinity is not equal to the authoritative enlightened guidance and teaching of St. Athanasius on the Trinity, sorry, and neither is the opinion of this or that layman of equal worth on what to do as the authoritative guidance of +ABL was and would be. We know Catholic principles, and we know 2000 years of Catholic Tradition teaches us the Holy Roman Church, the Church of Sts. Peter and Paul, the Church of all time, is indefectible, and no matter the storms afflicting it, nor the infiltrators there, we have to be in union with that Church if we want to go to Heaven. Period. That's what all the Saints, Doctors and Popes would tell you, that's what 2000 years of Catholic Tradition. Read Msgr. Fenton's article on indefectibility of Rome.

Re: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2019, 10:55:25 PM »
The Society of St. Pius X trusts Archbishop Lefebvre. He was the Saint God raised up to help deal with the crisis. It's his Society that has now happily formed 650+ Priests to labor in the Lord's vineyard, and is going to form countless more in the decades to come, to carry the torch of Tradition.

I've not said +ABL is infallible, but +ABL is an authoritative guide on the Crisis, just like St. Athanasius is an authoritative guide on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. The word of this or that layman on the Holy Trinity is not equal to the authoritative enlightened guidance and teaching of St. Athanasius on the Trinity, sorry, and neither is the opinion of this or that layman of equal worth on what to do as the authoritative guidance of +ABL was and would be. We know Catholic principles, and we know 2000 years of Catholic Tradition teaches us the Holy Roman Church, the Church of Sts. Peter and Paul, the Church of all time, is indefectible, and no matter the storms afflicting it, nor the infiltrators there, we have to be in union with that Church if we want to go to Heaven. Period. That's what all the Saints, Doctors and Popes would tell you, that's what 2000 years of Catholic Tradition. Read Msgr. Fenton's article on indefectibility of Rome.

The SSPX will carry a torch, alright, but it won’t be for Tradition (which is daily being washed out of them).

They will be the torchbearers for all former trade to follow their scandalous example of entering into conciliar pluralism.

That’s antithetical to preserving Tradition.

Nice little puppies who get treats for making compromises, and being good boys.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The SSPX just did a Trad act - ready to give up the Resistance?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 11:24:28 PM »
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+ABL is an authoritative guide on the Crisis, just like St. Athanasius is an authoritative guide on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
Ridiculous.  +ABL was one of many clerics who operated independently in the aftermath of V2.  And most all of them came to the same conclusion - V2 is heretical garbage.  +ABL didn't go around the world and give speeches to tell Traditionalists in the 60s, 70s and 80s what to do.  Those that decided to stick with "what has always been taught" were given the graces and wisdom from God to see the same Truth.  
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St Athanasius wasn't an authority on the Trinity; The Church is the authority.  St Athanasius just re-taught what the Church councils taught.
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we have to be in union with that Church if we want to go to Heaven.
Traditionalists are in union with Eternal Rome, which is the True Church.  The new-sspx wants to be in union with new-rome, which is NOT Eternal Rome but the V2 spirituality.  Those that follow V2's humanistic spirituality are not in union with Eternal Rome and, objectively speaking, will not get to heaven.