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Author Topic: The secret consecration of Bishops  (Read 14925 times)

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Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2024, 05:45:10 PM »
Yes.  So, do you think I'm lying?  I know two people who are in direct contact with Bishop Williamson who asked him, and he told them.  I won't reveal names, since they asked me to keep their identities under wraps.  If I had Bishop Williamson's contact information, I wouldn't waste his time by asking him again, because these sources are credible enough for me.

No.  I'm not saying I think you're lying.  I'm saying this post is the first time I've read that anyone has directly said that Bishop Williamson actually told them that he conditionally consecrated Vigano.  So now we have it third hand.  I don't know these two individuals and, frankly, I still doubt that there has been a consecration.  It's still a secret and no one really has a good reason to trust that Vigano is a valid bishop.  Your two confidants may have also simply interpreted Bishop Williamson's declaration to mean something that it didn't really mean.

Offline TheRealMcCoy

  • Supporter
Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2024, 06:16:43 PM »
What does anyone have to gain by doubting that +Williamson consecrated +Vigano?


Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2024, 06:40:35 PM »
Interesting.  Who was this Independent priest who was OK with either STAS or Bishop Sanborn's seminary?

I'm guessing you're talking about Abbot Leonard (Giardina) in Alabama.  I spent a few days there myself, but just got a strange "off" vibe about it, where I didn't feel as though I would fit in there.  I couldn't put a finger on it, but my "spidey senses" suggested that something was not right there.  They eventually went Novus Ordo after Abbot Leonard died.
I visited Christ the King Abbey in Cullman twice in the early 2000s, for a few days each time, but due to health problems I had at the time, I couldn't have asked to stay at the monastery, so I got a simple room at a motor hotel in Cullman (Super 8 one time, and possibly both times, I honestly don't remember) and "commuted" out to the abbey during the day.   I visited briefly with Abbot Leonard and he was very kind to me, made me feel totally welcome.  I don't know if the abbey was sedevacantist or not, but Abbot Leonard, in our conversation, referred to JPII as "the Pope".  Make of that what you will.

I didn't get any particular "vibe", but there was one thing, when I made my confession, the priest absolved me in English, using the traditional rite of absolution.  I thought that was kind of strange, but I figured Abbot Leonard, for whatever reason, had given his priests permission to do so.  So far as I am aware, his priests were ordained by Bishop McKenna.

Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2024, 08:17:09 PM »
What does anyone have to gain by doubting that +Williamson consecrated +Vigano?

RM, 

In a nutshell, Vigano is a highly politicized prelate, the 8th highest ranked newChurch cleric under the Bergolio papacy.

We were told…  that he had a conversion to the true Catholic Faith and went underground, with the help of a couple Opus Dei Luminaries, who published his dramatic story. 

First Concern: In recent years, such international cover stories have been proven to be media deceptions.

Secondly, Vigano has had ties and knowledge of the clandestine Opus Dei who controls over 60 media outlets worldwide.

The disgraced Michael Voris ran one such operation known as “Church Miltant”.

Thirdly, in the past three years, Vigano has published hundreds of expose’s and opinions on Church scandals and many tangential political issues.

Several of his political opinions are questionable (i.e., Trump, Putin, Dugin) as are his repeated omissions of conspicuous, major factions, such as Zionism and Opus Dei.

But with his media leverage, his voice has become the equivalent of “Q-Anon” messaging the confused, conservative Catholic world.

The fourth point:
Last summer, Bp. Williamson, leader of the decentralized and stagnant SSPX Resistance, announced that Archbishop Vigano was, “The heir to the light of the truth”, meaning +ABL. 

What does this imply… that he is taking over the traditional Catholic movement?

Then, during this past Advent we are told by Fr. Chazal of the Phillipines that +W and Bp. Faure secretly gave Vigano a conditional Apostolic consecration.

There was no announcement,  photos or video nor has Archbishop Vigano acknowledged he now has pre-Vatican II Orders, which would indicate his commitment to tradition.

Now, we’re not talking about a simple Novus ordo Diocese priest becoming a trad.

We’re talking about a highly ranked Bishop, from the modernist camp, being put into a international leadership position of the entire Catholic remnant.

The essence of this topic debate is:

Instead of blindly following personality cults, we as Catholics have a duty to ask questions and to discern the background and agenda of this prelate.

Offline TheRealMcCoy

  • Supporter
Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2024, 08:34:17 PM »
RM, 

In a nutshell, Vigano is a highly politicized prelate, the 8th highest ranked newChurch cleric under the Bergolio papacy.

We were told…  that he had a conversion to the true Catholic Faith and went underground, with the help of a couple Opus Dei Luminaries, who published his dramatic story. 

First Concern: In recent years, such international cover stories have been proven to be media deceptions.

Secondly, Vigano has had ties and knowledge of the clandestine Opus Dei who controls over 60 media outlets worldwide.

The disgraced Michael Voris ran one such operation known as “Church Miltant”.

Thirdly, in the past three years, Vigano has published hundreds of expose’s and opinions on Church scandals and many tangential political issues.

Several of his political opinions are questionable (i.e., Trump, Putin, Dugin) as are his repeated omissions of conspicuous, major factions, such as Zionism and Opus Dei.

But with his media leverage, his voice has become the equivalent of “Q-Anon” messaging the confused, conservative Catholic world.

The fourth point:
Last summer, Bp. Williamson, leader of the decentralized and stagnant SSPX Resistance, announced that Archbishop Vigano was, “The heir to the light of the truth”, meaning +ABL. 

What does this imply… that he is taking over the traditional Catholic movement?

Then, during this past Advent we are told by Fr. Chazal of the Phillipines that +W and Bp. Faure secretly gave Vigano a conditional Apostolic consecration.

There was no announcement,  photos or video nor has Archbishop Vigano acknowledged he now has pre-Vatican II Orders, which would indicate his commitment to tradition.

Now, we’re not talking about a simple Novus ordo Diocese priest becoming a trad.

We’re talking about a highly ranked Bishop, from the modernist camp, being put into a international leadership position of the entire Catholic remnant.

The essence of this topic debate is:

Instead of blindly following personality cults, we as Catholics have a duty to ask questions and to discern the background and agenda of this prelate.
Fair enough.  Would you receive sacraments from him?