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Author Topic: The secret consecration of Bishops  (Read 14898 times)

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Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2024, 04:46:10 PM »
I think there is a significant difference between consecrations made in secret and kept secret after the consecration and consecrations made without public fanfare (i.e., very few witnesses) but not kept secret after the fact.  The former is the case with Vigano and was the case with Kelly (kept secret until the consecrating bishop died) but was not the case with any of the bishop consecrated by Archbishop Thuc.

The difference isn't validity...the difference is whether the faithful have any reason to believe that a consecration ever took place so, should the new bishop take actions that only a bishop can take, why should the faithful accept those acts...especially if the purported bishop will not tell anyone who made him a bishop?

It's like accepting an independent priest who just shows up and says he's a priest but refuses to disclose anything about his past.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2024, 05:29:56 PM »

Quote
I think there is a significant difference between consecrations made in secret and kept secret after the consecration and consecrations made without public fanfare (i.e., very few witnesses) but not kept secret after the fact. 
Exactly.  Besides +Vigano, the 2 Bishops consecrated "secretly" were in Europe, during the Covid lockdowns.  They were announced once the covid-scam was ending.  The reasons for secrecy were obvious, wise and necessary.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2024, 05:52:09 PM »
And conditionals are also in a separate category, not typically announced with a great deal of fanfare ... if at all.

I don't even think it was all THAT secret, since Bishop Williamson has told those who asked him directly.  Given who Bishop Williamson and +Vigano are, I don't think we have any reason to believe it did not take place.

Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2024, 06:22:53 PM »
I think there is a significant difference between consecrations made in secret and kept secret after the consecration and consecrations made without public fanfare (i.e., very few witnesses) but not kept secret after the fact.  The former is the case with Vigano and was the case with Kelly (kept secret until the consecrating bishop died) but was not the case with any of the bishop consecrated by Archbishop Thuc.

The difference isn't validity...the difference is whether the faithful have any reason to believe that a consecration ever took place so, should the new bishop take actions that only a bishop can take, why should the faithful accept those acts...especially if the purported bishop will not tell anyone who made him a bishop?

It's like accepting an independent priest who just shows up and says he's a priest but refuses to disclose anything about his past.
Well said.

Re: The secret consecration of Bishops
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2024, 07:07:28 PM »
Interestingly, Bishop Sanborn did not cast any aspersions on Bishop Williamson or Vigano when he responded to the email question (unless I missed it).

Good observation.  We’re not focusing on the politics of the competing trad orders, just trying to put their actions into the context of Catholic tradition.

If any Bishop can proceed, creatively on his own, like Bp. Joe “Santeria” Pfeiffer, then there are problems.

Of course, we all understand this is a Church crisis and we require emergency tactics to survive.  

This point has been made many times to Bp. Williamson, pleading for him to ordain and put more priest into the field.  

But the answer is always the same, that such things cannot be expedited.  But when it comes to giving Vigano his trad certification… it’s “no problemo.”

With such secret priorities, one would not be surprised to find Opus Dei, crypto-trad Bishops running trad news media outlets.