Author Topic: The Resistance is Over (Read 15112 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:07:41 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Bartholemew
The resistance should now be called "Father Pfeifer and company"..... this is no longer a movement against the SSPX but a small group of priests, without a bishop, who are independent.

"The Resistance" was never more than this to begin with ... that being my point.

Perhaps "in the United States", then I would agree with you.

Worldwide, it's another story.

THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

Well, my point is that there is no organized quasi-monolithic group that can be called "The Resistance". Never has been. Without the moral leadership of a figure the magnitude of a Bishop Williamson, there was never any hope. It'll just be like any other loosely-confederated group of independent priests, just like the ORCM in the early days of the U.S. And it sounds like it's what Bishop Williamson wants and has always wanted. He'll provide Sacramental services to such groups or priests scattered around here or there, but he won't step in as any kind of leader. No one else could assume that role. If Bishop Williamson wanted it, he would immediately have it.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:09:15 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

You know of course that the Church can never be "toast". And thank God that the existence of the Church doesn't depend on the Resistance.

John Grace · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:09:19 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Bartholemew
The resistance should now be called "Father Pfeifer and company"..... this is no longer a movement against the SSPX but a small group of priests, without a bishop, who are independent.

"The Resistance" was never more than this to begin with ... that being my point.

Perhaps "in the United States", then I would agree with you.

Worldwide, it's another story.

THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

Well, my point is that there is no organized quasi-monolithic group that can be called "The Resistance". Never has been. Without the moral leadership of a figure the magnitude of a Bishop Williamson, there was never any hope. It'll just be like any other loosely-confederated group of independent priests, just like the ORCM in the early days of the U.S. And it sounds like it's what Bishop Williamson wants and has always wanted. He'll provide Sacramental services to such groups or priests scattered around here or there, but he won't step in as any kind of leader. No one else could assume that role. If Bishop Williamson wanted it, he would immediately have it.

The resistance is a loose network as it should be.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:11:35 PM »

IMO it's long past time for His Excellency Bishop Williamson to stand up and take this bull by the horns. He has a solemn responsibility before God to do so. He's been too long a reluctant passive "leader" by process of elimination. You could tell that he was never into it, and I am convinced that he's still be in SSPX were it not for the h0Ɩ0cαųst remarks.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:13:00 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Bartholemew
The resistance should now be called "Father Pfeifer and company"..... this is no longer a movement against the SSPX but a small group of priests, without a bishop, who are independent.

"The Resistance" was never more than this to begin with ... that being my point.

Perhaps "in the United States", then I would agree with you.

Worldwide, it's another story.

THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

Well, my point is that there is no organized quasi-monolithic group that can be called "The Resistance". Never has been. Without the moral leadership of a figure the magnitude of a Bishop Williamson, there was never any hope. It'll just be like any other loosely-confederated group of independent priests, just like the ORCM in the early days of the U.S. And it sounds like it's what Bishop Williamson wants and has always wanted. He'll provide Sacramental services to such groups or priests scattered around here or there, but he won't step in as any kind of leader. No one else could assume that role. If Bishop Williamson wanted it, he would immediately have it.

The resistance is a loose network as it should be.

Nonsense. There's a lot that can be done with people working together in a coherent structure. Look at what the SSPX was able to accomplish, a cohesive group working together under the leadership of an Archbishop Lefebvre.

Matthew · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:15:12 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Matthew
THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

You know of course that the Church can never be "toast". And thank God that the existence of the Church doesn't depend on the Resistance.

Yes, I realize that. I thought of that as I typed it, and I should have clarified right away.

But it does depend on SOME kind of resistance (lowercase R) against modernism by SOME group SOMEwhere. It could be independent, SSPX, SSPV, Resistance, you name it.

Because whatever they are pushing at the Taj Mahoney on the average Sunday is not Catholicism.

You can't really say, "IF the Novus Ordo completely took over, then..." because it simply wouldn't -- and couldn't -- happen. God wouldn't be God, which is not a possibility.

John Grace · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:15:51 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Bartholemew
The resistance should now be called "Father Pfeifer and company"..... this is no longer a movement against the SSPX but a small group of priests, without a bishop, who are independent.

"The Resistance" was never more than this to begin with ... that being my point.

Perhaps "in the United States", then I would agree with you.

Worldwide, it's another story.

THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group, or the Church is toast!

Well, my point is that there is no organized quasi-monolithic group that can be called "The Resistance". Never has been. Without the moral leadership of a figure the magnitude of a Bishop Williamson, there was never any hope. It'll just be like any other loosely-confederated group of independent priests, just like the ORCM in the early days of the U.S. And it sounds like it's what Bishop Williamson wants and has always wanted. He'll provide Sacramental services to such groups or priests scattered around here or there, but he won't step in as any kind of leader. No one else could assume that role. If Bishop Williamson wanted it, he would immediately have it.

The resistance is a loose network as it should be.

Nonsense. There's a lot that can be done with people working together in a coherent structure. Look at what the SSPX was able to accomplish, a cohesive group working together under the leadership of an Archbishop Lefebvre.

You offer an opinion and are entitled to your opinion. :dancing-banana:

John Grace · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:22:42 PM »

Quote from: stgobnait

the resistance is not over, it is being tested, and will be tested again and again, there will be fall outs, misunderstandings, personality clashes, whats new ? nothing new under the sun...

Indeed. Many decided early on the resistance is not their cup of tea.

It matters little. The resistance is not over. I wouldn't worry about it because the resistance has the blessing of Almighty God and has given the resistors the grace to act.

peterp · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:50:35 PM »

Quote from: Bartholemew

... the Resistance was close to having an actual hierarchy ...

Which would have been schismatic.

Quote from: Bartholemew

... priests acting independently, very similar to the current sede situation with a different doctrine.

Actually, it is a very similar situation and one that seems to lead to SVism:
i) the German and Austrian resistance are now SVs apparently:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/GermanAustrian-Resistance-Now-Sedevacantist
ii) so too, the Hungarian resistance as reported by Bp. Williamson's former publicist:
http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-weekend-in-budapest.html
iii) Many of the resistance priests are SVs. The meeting recently in France condemned in the Recusant;
iv) In the US, one of the first "Resistance" groups Our Lady's Resistance, St. Mary's turned to SVism

ggreg · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:01:36 PM »

Well, don't say I didn't warn ya.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26640&min=12&num=3

John Grace · « **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:08:42 PM »

Quote from: peterp

Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: stgobnait
the resistance is not over, it is being tested, and will be tested again and again, there will be fall outs, misunderstandings, personality clashes, whats new ? nothing new under the sun...

Indeed. Many decided early on the resistance is not their cup of tea.

It matters little. The resistance is not over. I wouldn't worry about it because the resistance has the blessing of Almighty God and has given the resistors the grace to act.

That was the Archbishop's line when asked if the Society would survive: if it is from God it will, and guess what after 44 years it is still here!

Whereas the "Resistance" have virtually destroyed themselves after a mere 2 years (actually it is the SSPX who are the true resistance; those who go by the the name "Resistance" are actually revolutionaries).

John Grace · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:10:00 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Well, don't say I didn't warn ya.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26640&min=12&num=3

PAT317 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:32:35 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Perhaps "in the United States", then I would agree with you.
Worldwide, it's another story.
THANK GOD the Resistance is bigger than Fr. Pfeiffer's group...

BISHOP:
H.E. Bishop Richard N. Williamson SSPX (England)

RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES:
1. Holy Cross Monastery, OSB, Nova Friburgo, Brazil.
2. Our Lady of the Faith and Rosary Monastery (FBMV), Candeias, Bahia, Brazil.
3. Dominicans of Avrillé, France.
4. Monastery of Saint Joseph Santa Sofia, Boyacá, Colombia.
5. Convent Servants of Mary, Queen of Peace, Mato Grosso do Sul, Brazil.

PRIESTS:

1. Abraham, Steven SSPX [1] (England)
2. Abrahamowicz, Florian SSPX [2] (Italy) He was expelled before the crisis of 2012, he has joined the Resistance.
3. Altamira, Fernando SSPX [3] prior (Argentina)
4. Arízaga, Rafael OSB (Mexico)
5. Avril, Maurice Founder of the work Notre-Dame de Salérans, (France)
6. Bitzer, Gavin (USA)
7. Brito, Jahir FBMV (Brazil)
8. Bruno OSB (France)
9. Bufe, Craig SSPX [4] (Ireland)
10. Cardozo, Ernesto SSPX [5] (Argentina)
11. Chazal, Francois SSPX [6] (France)
12. Dardis, Brendan O.S.B. (USA)
13. de Mérode, Roland SSPX [7], prior (France)
14. de Sainte-Marie d’Agneau, Hubert SSPX [8] (France)
15. Dominic Mary of the Pillar OP (USA)
16. Elijah OFM (Asia)
17. Faure, Jean Michel SSPX [9] (France)
18. Fuchs, Martin SSPX [10] (Austria)
19. Girouard, Patrick SSPX [11] (Canada)
20. Gruner, Nicholas (Canada)
21. Hewko, David SSPX [12] (USA)
22. Joaquim Daniel Maria de Sant’Ana FBVM (Brazil)
23. Kramer, Paul (Ireland)
24. Makarios (Brazil)
25. Méramo, Basilio SSPX [13] (Colombia)
26. N’dong, Pierre-Célestin SSPX [14] (Gabon)
27. Nariai, John (Japan)
28. O'Connor, John (USA)
29. Ortiz, Juan Carlos SSPX [15] (Colombia)
30. Pfeiffer, Joseph SSPX [16] (USA)
31. Picot, Rémi SSPX [17] (France)
32. Pinaud, Nicolas SSPX [18] (France)
33. Pivert, Francois SSPX [19] (France)
34. Raffali (France)
35. Raja, Pancras (India)
36. Ribas, Ramiro (Spain)
37. Ringrose, Ronald (USA)
38. Rioult, Olivier SSPX [20] (France)
39. Ruiz, Hugo SSPX [21] (Mexico)
40. Salenave, Mathieu SSPX [22] (France)
41. Thomas Aquinas OSB (Brazil)
42. Trincado, René SSPX [23] (Chili)
43. Vignalou, Pierre SSPX [24] (France)
44. Voigt, Richard SDB (USA)
45. Zendejas, Gerardo [25] (Mexico)
46. Pierre-Marie OP with
56. 10 priests Dominicans of Avrillé (7 from France, 2 from USA, 1 from Poland)

hollingsworth · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:44:18 PM »

ladislaus:

Quote

Nonsense. There's a lot that can be done with people working together in a coherent structure. Look at what the SSPX was able to accomplish, a cohesive group working together under the leadership of an Archbishop Lefebvre.

The "coherent structure," (and might I add, hierarchical Catholic structure), which was set up under ABL, was done under the leadership of and indisputably consesecrated archbishop of the Church. That which we now generally recognize as the "resistance" has been established under the leadership, basically, of an ordinary, validly ordained priest of the same Church. There is also a bishop of the Church at large, who has come out of the sspx, just like the priest did. This bishop has suggested another, less organized model or loose confederation, which the priest in question has essentially rejected. In fact, this priest is highly critical of the bishop, and has let it be known in speaking and in writing. The former wants a more tightly organized neo-sspx, as it were, run not from Menzingen, of course, but from Boston, KY. For me the question is an easy one: Do I follow the priest or the bishop? Do I lend greater weight to the authority of the priest or to the authority of the bishop. At this point, in my reasoning anyway, the answer is a no brainer.

andysloan · « **Reply #29 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:52:27 PM »

An likely increase in independent priests may be preparatory.

“In those days, Faith will fall very low, and it will be preserved in some places only, in a few cottages and in a few families which God has protected from disasters and wars.”

St Anne Catherine Emmerich