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Author Topic: The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):  (Read 16858 times)

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Offline Ferdinand

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The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2014, 07:27:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla
    Some might find it very interesting to read a history of the inception of the Vatican Bank and the Pacelli Family, who came into prominence as the original Vatican Bankers.  The claim has been made that the Pacelli Family were marranos and Rothchild agents.

    Interestingly, Fr. Luigi Villa (RIP) claimed that Pius XII zealously promoted Msgr. Montini (another alleged marrano), treated him as a father would treat a beloved son, and never failed to defend him from his many enemies within the Vatican.  It was Montini who brought Anibale Bugnini to Pope Pius' attention.

    cantatedomino, the software won't permit me to give you a "thumbs up".  Again, I agree with your posts ...


    The software is "managed" by the moderator.

    Offline Ambrose

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #46 on: April 19, 2014, 07:35:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Ambrose
    I hope the Resistance resists the temptation to attack Pope Pius XII or the Holy Laws of the Catholic Church as promulgated by him.  


    Agreed.

    Most of what was accomplished under his nose was done by deception, rather than promotion.

    He was also quite ill for the last several years, and therefore easy to take advantage of . . . He was taken advantage of.



    You do realize, my good man, that this is the same line of bull-hoax they give about "Saint JPII."

    YUK!


    To imply Pius XII and JPII are cut from the same cloth is so ridiculous a claim as to pre-empt the need to respond.



    This is the fruit of this schismatic tree.  I am pleased that you defend Pope Pius XII, but make no mistake about this:  he was not fooled into reforming the Holy Week, he supported it and praised the changes.

    The 1955 Holy Week Law was a good law and should never be criticized.  There is nothing evil or leading to impiety in the rite.  There is no reason to disobey Pope Pius XII's law.

    God Himself accepts this rite, but apparently man will not.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #47 on: April 19, 2014, 07:42:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla
    Well, SJ, overlooking your condescension is a never ending exercise.  There are a number of us who are rather well read on this subject and have drawn conclusions at variance with yours.

    PS  My library contains at least 25 books on this very subject.  You're always welcome to borrow a few ...


    My response to you was directed at Cantate.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ferdinand

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #48 on: April 19, 2014, 08:15:02 PM »
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  • Quote
    ...he was not fooled into reforming the Holy Week, he supported it and praised the changes.


    I prefer to believe Pius XII ignorant and deceived rather than the alternative.  I would truly like to think he is not barking in hell with Bugnini and Montini.

    Sincerely, does anyone believe St. Pius X was so daft that he couldn't see the necessity of "Reforming" Holy Week?  I think not, he wouldn't have had anything to do with such a revolution.

    Offline Ferdinand

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #49 on: April 19, 2014, 08:45:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: Domitilla
    Yes, the "ѕυιcιdє of altering the Faith, in Her Liturgy, Her Theology, and Her Soul".  Has not this sad Papal statement come to pass in our day?  Kyrie Eleison.


    Yes, both Pius XII and Paul VI have given very famous and oft-repeated quotes about the auto-demolition in the Church which they themselves authorized by the stroke of their very own quill pens.


    We all know the Church was sold out long before Vatican II.  

    Is Pius XII guilty?  In conscience, it is hard to imagine otherwise.


    Offline Ambrose

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #50 on: April 19, 2014, 08:52:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote
    ...he was not fooled into reforming the Holy Week, he supported it and praised the changes.


    I prefer to believe Pius XII ignorant and deceived rather than the alternative.  I would truly like to think he is not barking in hell with Bugnini and Montini.

    Sincerely, does anyone believe St. Pius X was so daft that he couldn't see the necessity of "Reforming" Holy Week?  I think not, he wouldn't have had anything to do with such a revolution.


    The assumption in your post is that the Holy Week as approved by Pope Pius XII was bad.  That is an unproven assumption.   The liturgical changes as directed and approved by Pope St. Pius X through Pope Pius XII were good changes.  

    Pope Pope XII taught:

    Quote
    Thus the liturgical movement has appeared as a sign of God’s providential dispositions for the present day, as a movement of the Holy Spirit in His Church, intended to bring men closer to those mysteries of the faith and treasures of grace which derive from the active participation of the faithful in liturgical life.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Ferdinand

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #51 on: April 19, 2014, 09:36:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    The liturgical changes as directed and approved by... Pope Pius XII were good changes.  

    How pray tell is that a proven assumption?

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #52 on: April 19, 2014, 10:14:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla


    cantatedomino, the software won't permit me to give you a "thumbs up".  Again, I agree with your posts ...


    So do I.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #53 on: April 19, 2014, 10:39:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: cantatedomino
    CARUSI: The bishops received these novelties in various ways, and, beyond the façade of triumphalism, there were not lacking laments over the introduction of these innovations, and indeed requests began to multiply for permission to retain the traditional rites. (9) But by now the machine of liturgical reform had been set in motion and to halt it in its course would have proven impossible and moreover inadmissible, as the events to follow would demonstrate.

    OBSERVATION: And this is why it is so very important for Tradition not to make ++ABL and his SSPX the First Principle of counter-revolution.

    The original SSPX was already tainted with modernism, in its praxis and in the rites it took to itself. It was never wholly and entirely traditional.

    In his OP, Sean said that "the advent of the Resistance might provide an opportunity to recover that which was lost by Bugnini from 1951 (in the case of Holy Week) on."

    The "Resistance" will only accomplish this if it can break orbital velocity to escape the modernist pull of the novus ordo SSPX and return to the ancient Faith.  


    Agree
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Nobody

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #54 on: April 19, 2014, 11:03:58 PM »
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  • It looks as as if everyone here is trying to outdo everyone else in being critical and laying the blame. How far shall we go back ? I wonder why Padre Pio never spoke about out about these changes which will soon be traced back 2000 years ? Or are we to suspect he was a modernist too ?

    It is this spirit of continual and unchecked criticism that makes conversions impossible, out of reach of little children.

    Can one save ones soul with the 1962, 1950, 1954, 1950, 1902, 1845, 1721, 1611, .. rubrics/missal/.. ?

    I see the pharizees are alive and kicking.

    I think this is what Bishop Williamson was talking about in his latest EC.

    PS : Only one down thumb, per user, per post, thank you !

    Offline Ambrose

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #55 on: April 20, 2014, 12:02:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Ambrose
    The liturgical changes as directed and approved by... Pope Pius XII were good changes.  

    How pray tell is that a proven assumption?


    We have the testimony of Pope Pius XII that the liturgical actions of the Popes from St. Pius X to Pope Pius XII were movements of the Holy Ghost in His Church.

    Pope Pius XII taught:

    Quote
    Thus the liturgical movement has appeared as a sign of God’s providential dispositions for the present day, as a movement of the Holy Spirit in His Church, intended to bring men closer to those mysteries of the faith and treasures of grace which derive from the active participation of the faithful in liturgical life.


    Also:

    Quote
    The contributions which are brought to the liturgy by the Hierarchy and by the faithful are not to be reckoned as two separate quantities, but represent the work of members of the same organism, which acts as a single living entity. The shepherds and the flock, the teaching Church and the Church taught, form a single and unique body of Christ. So there is no reason for entertaining suspicion, rivalries, open or hidden opposition, either in one’s thought or in one’s manner of speaking and acting. Among members of the same body there ought to reign, before all else, harmony, union and cooperation. It is within this unity that the Church prays, makes it offering, grows in holiness. One can declare therefore with justice that the liturgy is the work of the Church whole and entire.

    (Quotes from Pope Pius XII taken from: Address of Pope Pius XII to the International Congress on Pastoral Liturgy, Sept. 22, 1956, translation of the original: AAS (October 29, 1956), 48: 711-725; found online HERE )

    The duty of a Catholic is to trust the Pope that he is leading the Church as God wants it led.  The Pope is also clear that there is no reason for " entertaining suspicion, rivalries, open or hidden opposition, either in one’s thought or in one’s manner of speaking and acting."  Our duty as Catholics is to be nourished and fed by the liturgy, and trust the Pope who has been given the authority by God to guard and regulate Divine Worship.

    Secondly, Pope Leo XIII taught:

    Quote
    In this question, have all in mind that in Church´s government, excepting the fundamental obligations the Apostolic ministry imposes to the Popes, each Pontiff is free to follow the way he thinks is the most appropriate, according to the times and other circuмstances. This competence is exclusive of the R. Pontiff, becuase he has for these cases an special light of the gift of counsel, and he has a more complete vision of the situation of the whole Church, in order to give an answer according to his apostolic providence. It is he who takes care of the common good of the Church, to which subordinates the particular utility of her different parts. Everybody else, without exception, must cooperate with the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and follow his plans.
    If this doctrine would fall into oblivion, the reverence, trust and respect due to the guide given by God would be lost. The bond of loving obedience would be relaxed, bond that keep together faithfuls with their Bishops, and them with the Pope...
    Also, a great division among Catholics would follow,
    becuase of the death of concord, which must be always be considered as a characteristic of the followers of Jesus Christ, and in all times, and most above all now, when so many enemies get otgether, must be the supreme law for all..."

    (Pope Leo XIII, "Epistola Tua", cf. Leonis XIII Acta (Romae 1891 ss),), original text in Latin and translation found HERE

    In short, one must trust that the Pope, led by special light of the gift of counsel has led the Church correctly, and must submit himself to the judgment of the Pope in his decisions for the Church.  

    In application to Pope Pius XII, a Catholic is bound to trust that he by the special light of the gift of counsel, led the Church correctly in his official acts regarding the liturgy.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #56 on: April 20, 2014, 08:25:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Ambrose
    I hope the Resistance resists the temptation to attack Pope Pius XII or the Holy Laws of the Catholic Church as promulgated by him.  


    Agreed.

    Most of what was accomplished under his nose was done by deception, rather than promotion.

    He was also quite ill for the last several years, and therefore easy to take advantage of . . . He was taken advantage of.



    You do realize, my good man, that this is the same line of bull-hoax they give about "Saint JPII."

    YUK!


    To imply Pius XII and JPII are cut from the same cloth is so ridiculous a claim as to pre-empt the need to respond.



    This is the fruit of this schismatic tree.  I am pleased that you defend Pope Pius XII, but make no mistake about this:  he was not fooled into reforming the Holy Week, he supported it and praised the changes.

    The 1955 Holy Week Law was a good law and should never be criticized.  There is nothing evil or leading to impiety in the rite.  There is no reason to disobey Pope Pius XII's law.

    God Himself accepts this rite, but apparently man will not.



    Ambrose-

    But just for the sake of argument, here is what one of your fellow sedevacantists says regarding the non-binding nature of the revised holy week:



    Is Rejecting the Pius XII Liturgical Reforms "Illegal"?
    Rev. Anthony Cekada
    Q. I I was just wondering how you justify rejection of the Holy Week "reforms" under Pius XII. If the principle of "epikeia" is invoked, it would seem this does not apply given the validity of the reigning Pontiff, and his rightful authority to make such "changes". I was under the impression that epikeia only applied when a law began to work against the common good and needed to be ignored. I would appreciate your insight. Thank you for your fantastic work and time

    Q. Thank you for sending me these links to your wonderful web-site and for the beautiful ceremonies presented in the pictures. Regarding the 1955 Holy Week Changes: in reading the arguments from 1955 for the reasons in the changes, the "innovators" talked of "returning to earlier traditions" and of "simplification of the ceremonies", etc.: the same arguments made later for the entire Novus Ordo. Admittedly, the whole thing stinks of Bugnini. Annibale admitted in his memoirs that this was an important step towards the liturgical anarchy he later created with Paul VI and all their protestant friends and bishops. I have no doubt in my mind that the 1955 changes should have been thrown out (like the rest of Bugnini's "innovations").

    However, I have two main questions: what does this say to us of Pope Pius XII in those latter years for permitting and utilizing this new ceremony, and also, since we have been Interregnum since 1958, what justifications do we utilize to individually celebrate the older ceremonies which were replaced before 1958 without making it appear that we are "picking and choosing" which ceremonies we want to utilize. Is it because of the belief that Pope Pius XII would never have agreed with the changes if he knew what occurred afterwards like we do know? Is it because he never really promulgated the changes (as some believe)? Or is it simply because Bugnini was behind it all? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this as this topic has puzzled me for quite some time.

    A. Over the years we have been repeatedly asked this question. The answer is quite simple, and is based on the common-sense principles that underlie all the Church’s legislation.

    The laws promulgating the Pius XII liturgical reforms were human ecclesiastical laws, subject to the general principles of interpretation for all church laws. As such, they no long bind on two grounds:

     

    I. Lack of Stability (or Perpetuity). Stability is an essential quality of a true law. The 1955 reforms were merely transitional norms; this is self-evident from subsequent legislation and contemporaneous comments by those responsible for creating them.

    In his 1955 book on the changes, The Simplification of the Rubrics, Bugnini himself makes this abundantly clear in the following passages:

    • “The present decree has a contingent character. It is essentially a bridge between the old and the new, and if you will, an arrow indicating the direction taken by the current restoration.…”

    • “The simplification does not embrace all areas which would deserve a reform, but for the moment only the things that are easiest and most obvious and with an immediate and tangible effect… In the simplification, being a ‘bridge’ between the present state and the general reform, compromise was inevitable…”

    • “This reform is only the first step toward measures of a wider scope, and it is not possible to judge accurately of a part except when it is placed in its whole.”

    In a 1956 commentary on the new Holy Week rite (Bibliotheca Ephemerides Lit. 25, p.1.), Bugnini says:

    • “The decree ‘Maxima redemptionis nostrae mysteria,” promulgated by the Sacred Congregation of Rites on 16 November 1955 [and introducing the new Holy Week] is the third step towards a general liturgical reform.”

    Such norms (as we now realize), thus lacked one of the essential qualities of a law — stability or perpetuity — and are therefore no longer binding.

     

    2. Cessation. A human ecclesiastical law that was obligatory when promulgated can become harmful (nociva) through a change of circuмstances after the passage of time. When this happens, such a law ceases to bind. (I have written several articles that touch upon this topic.)

    Traditionalists apply this principle (at least implicitly) to a great number of ecclesiastical laws, and it applies equally to the 1955 reforms.

    The many parallels in principles and practices between the Missal of Paul VI and the 1955 reforms now render continued use of the latter harmful, because such a use promotes (at least implicitly) the dangerous error that Paul VI's "reform" was merely one more step in the organic development of the Catholic liturgy.

    Indeed, this is the very lie that Paul VI proclaimed in the first two paragraphs of Missale Romanum, his 1969 Apostolic Constitution promulgating the Novus Ordo.

    It makes no sense to support this deception by insisting that the 1955 legislation still binds — especially when we now know that it was all part of a long-range plot by Annibale Bugnini's modernist cabal to destroy the Mass.

    Here, from his 1955 book, The Simplification of the Rubrics, is Bugnini announcing the long-term goal of these changes:

    • “We are concerned with ‘restoring’ [the liturgy]… [making it] a new city in which the man of our age can live and feel at ease…”

    • “No doubt it is still too early to assess the full portent of this docuмent, which marks an important turning point in the history of the rites of the Roman liturgy…”

    • “Those who are eager for a more wholesome, realistic liturgical renewal are once more — I should say — almost invited, tacitly, to keep their eyes open and make an accurate investigation of the principles here put forward, to see their possible applications…”

    • “More than in any other field, a reform in the liturgy must be the fruit of an intelligent, enlightened collaboration of all the active forces.”

    And here is Bugnini describing how his “reform” commission got the liturgical changes approved by Pius XII:

    “The commission enjoyed the full confidence of the Pope, who was kept abreast of its work by Monsignor Montini [Paul VI, the modernist who would promulgate the Novus Ordo] and even more, on a weekly basis, by Father Bea [half-Jew, modernist, and premier ecuмenist at Vatican II], confessor of Pius XII. Thanks to them, the commission was able to achieve important results even during periods when the Pope’s illness kept everyone else from approaching him.” (The Liturgical Reform, p.9)

    Thus, the Mason’s liturgical creations were presented to the sick pope for his approval by the two scheming modernists who will be major players in destroying the Church at Vatican II.

    Bugnini in his memoirs, indeed, entitles the chapter on his involvement with the pre-Vatican II changes as "The Key to the Liturgical Reform." It prepared the ground for what would follow.

    I devote two weeks of my seminary liturgy course on the "Modern Era" to an examination of the pre-Vatican II antecedents to the later "reforms." The problems outlined in the articles by Bp. Dolan and Fr. Ricossa on our web site thus far are only the tip of the iceberg.

    Traditionalists rightly set aside as inapplicable many other ecclesiastical laws. A fortiori, they should ignore liturgical laws that were the dirty work of the man who destroyed the Mass.

    (Internet, 27 April 2006)
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline JPaul

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #57 on: April 20, 2014, 12:25:27 PM »
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  • When we see a proper declaration that the resistance, so called, is returning to a truer form of the liturgy in toto, we can then hope that there might come a change in the ABL accommodation and position.
     And so we must wait to see if the leaders have the foresight and fortitude to seize upon this opportunity.

    I wish all a most blessed and most fruitful Easter in the joy of our Risen Lord.

    God Bless

    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #58 on: April 21, 2014, 12:07:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Quote

    "It was felt necessary to revise and enrich the formulae of the Roman Missal. The first stage of such a reform was the work of Our Predecessor Pius XII with the reform of the Easter Vigil and the rites of Holy Week (1), which constituted the first step in the adaptation of the Roman Missal to the contemporary way of thinking"
    (Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution Missale Romanum, April 3, 1969)



    Modus operandi.

    (thanks for posting this in the Library SeanJ)



    No kidding. " adapting to the contemporary way  of thinking"?  No thanks, we have seen the fruits of that tree.
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."

    Offline Ambrose

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    The Resistance and the Pre-1955 Holy Week (and Missal):
    « Reply #59 on: April 21, 2014, 01:13:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mama ChaCha
    Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Quote

    "It was felt necessary to revise and enrich the formulae of the Roman Missal. The first stage of such a reform was the work of Our Predecessor Pius XII with the reform of the Easter Vigil and the rites of Holy Week (1), which constituted the first step in the adaptation of the Roman Missal to the contemporary way of thinking"
    (Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution Missale Romanum, April 3, 1969)



    Modus operandi.

    (thanks for posting this in the Library SeanJ)



    No kidding. " adapting to the contemporary way  of thinking"?  No thanks, we have seen the fruits of that tree.


    An assertion by the public heretic Paul VI does not make it true.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic