Author Topic: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference  (Read 1551 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
« on: September 11, 2017, 09:48:26 PM »
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  • Would ya lookie here,  

    "Alex Jones of the Catacombs", (Michael Matt) is holding a neo-trad identity conference.


                                              Mike pumping "Catholics Rising"

    For the first time in history, a number of bishops as well as representatives of every major traditionalist priestly fraternity in the world (including the SSPX and FSSP), as well as journalists from both sides of the Atlantic, will come together for a weekend conference to discuss united and principled defense of Holy Mother Church. This is NOT a traditionalist version of false ecumenism. There are serious issues which still come between the participants in this conference. However, this is a gathering of serious Catholics who realize the Church is suffering her worst assault in history, and thus requires all of her sons and daughters to stand in her defense.
    On October 27 in Weirton, WV (minutes from the Pittsburgh Airport, near Steubenville, OH), be a part of this history making conference. Let's take our Church back! Please visit The Remnant website for a complete list of the speakers and to register online. Only 30 seats left.



    Neo trad groupies will be in queue, anxious for Bp. Fellay's autograph.

    And the newChurch special guest is "conservative-intercessor" Bishop Schneider from Astana, Kazakhstan, (the masonic capital of the world).

    Expect the incense and hype to be so thick, you can cut the air with a knife.



    Non compromising Resistance trads stay home... cause you don't exist... and if you did... you still aren't welcome  :farmer:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 11:01:59 PM »
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  • Haha- yes- I saw it and commented on the Remnant article website. I asked if our 4 resistance Bishops were invited, and if they weren't , they really weren't representing "all" of Tradition as they were claiming. Well, I must have pushed a very sensitive button with the moderator. ( Mr Matt?) He went totally nuts accusing me of trying to destroy something meant for good, how ignorant I was, on and on. And the reason I thought that it might actually be Michael Matt was because he said I knew nothing about Mr Matt's relationship with +Williamson, and that the Bishop would never have done what I had done. ( What did I do?) I think if it was a hired moderator he would never have referenced any relationship or mentioned the name of +Williamson on his website. It was Matt's rule to break.
    I answered calmly and (I felt) appropriately, and my comment was not allowed. So I deleted the original comment and basically just said I would have gone if the Bishops were welcome, but obviously they weren't. He deleted his mad raving as it referenced nothing after my deletion.
    Yes, it's true. We don't exist. Good for Remnant donations I guess. Too bad they still have to censor and marginalize true Bishops and serious Resistance Catholics- How can they fix it when they can't address the entire Truth? That's Tradition? Yikes!
     Good Luck, Mr Matt


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 11:33:25 AM »
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  • Matt has proved for 5 years that he bows to human respect and money, because he has never reported on the split in the SSPX. It's as if it does not exist.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 12:12:44 PM »
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  • Quote
    Matt has proved for 5 years that he bows to human respect and money, because he has never reported on the split in the SSPX. It's as if it does not exist.

    Yes, alas, this is true.  Yet Matt, probably more than any other Catholic lay leader, (in the US anyway), is the face of so-called 'traditional Catholicism."  He gives the lie to that movement, IMO.  He personifies it.  He proves, to my satisfaction anyway,  that traditional Catholicism, as a moving, living force among Catholics, is largely an illusion. 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 12:38:14 PM »
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  • Just think.
    One day we'll know what happened to him and why he "turned" on us?   :farmer:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 02:02:47 PM »
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  • From http://sodalitium-pianum.com/sspx-tradcumenism-the-practical-application-of-pluralism/

    (SSPX, FSSP, ICK, and diocesan priests pose for a photo op at a previous Catholic Identity Conference)
    The Remnant is announcing with great fanfare the approach of another “Catholic Identity Conference,” in which, supposedly,

    “For the first time in history, a number of bishops as well as representatives of every major traditionalist priestly fraternity in the world (including the SSPX and FSSP), as well as journalists from both sides of the Atlantic, will come together for a weekend conference to discuss united and principled defense of Holy Mother Church. This is NOT a traditionalist version of false ecumenism. There are serious issues which still come between the participants in this conference. However, this is a gathering of serious Catholics who realize the Church is suffering her worst assault in history, and thus requires all of her sons and daughters to stand in her defense.” (Here)

    This statement raises a number of questions, and carries within itself an internal contradiction, which its author seems to miss, or overlook: If these groups (allegedly) still harbor “serious issues” which “come between them,” then how is it possible to come together to “discuss a united and principled defense” of Holy Mother Church?
    Principled, while holding different principles?

    Isn’t the truth that, in agreeing to come together for this event, the subject matter will be as “neutral” as the recent sermons the SSPX gave in Rome (See Here)?  Will not both sides agree to “put away their differences” (i.e., principles!) for the sake of unity?  If so, how is this ecumenism any different than any other ecumenism?
    Only the factions involved are different.

    If this event was truly not “tradcumenical,” and the discussion was going to be “principled,” then we would expect to hear Fr. Jonathan Loop (SSPX representative/speaker) explain to the gathering why not only will he not be celebrating Mass with indult and diocesan clergy, but that he will leave the room while they do so, for as the SSPX has always taught, attending the indult Mass is:

    • “accepting the compromise on which [these communities] are based,
    • accepting the direction taken by the Conciliar Church and the consequent destruction of the Catholic Faith and practices, and
    • accepting, in particular, the lawfulness and doctrinal soundness of the Novus Ordo Missae and Vatican II.
    That is why a Catholic ought not to attend their Masses.” (SSPX.org)

    That’s right from the SSPX, folks (and the same page elaborates on each of the three bullet points above).
    Now that regards attending an indult Mass.  How much more deviant and hypocritical for the SSPX to actually celebrate Mass with indult clergy (as was reported at a previous Catholic Identity Comferemce)?  We were told for 20 years to stay home and pray the Rosary rather than attend an indult Mass.  But somehow today, magically, it becomes OK not only to attend one, but to celebrate the sacraments with indultarians (of doubtful ordinations, by the way).
    Can someone explain that to me?

    Is this kind of “principled” tradcumenism (a contradiction in terms!) consistent with Archbishop Lefebvre’s thoughts regarding the indult communities?  Fortunately for us, we need not offer conjecture on the point, as he addresses the very topic himself two years after the consecrations in 1990:

    A false charity

    And we must not waver for one moment either in not being with those who are in the process of betraying us. Some people are always admiring the grass in the neighbor’s field. Instead of looking to their friends, to the Church’s defenders, to those fighting on the battlefield, they look to our enemies on the other side. “After all, we must be charitable, we must be kind, we must not be divisive, after all, they are celebrating the Tridentine Mass, they are not as bad as everyone says”  – but THEY ARE BETRAYING US  – betraying us! They are shaking hands with the Church’s destroyers. They are shaking hands with people holding modernist and liberal ideas condemned by the Church. So they are doing the devil’s work.

    Thus those who were with us and were working with us for the rights of Our Lord, for the salvation of souls, are now saying, “So long as they grant us the old Mass, we can shake hands with Rome, no problem.” But we are seeing how it works out. They are in an impossible situation. Impossible. One cannot both shake hands with modernists and keep following Tradition. Not possible. Not possible. Now, stay in touch with them to bring them back, to convert them to Tradition, yes, if you like, that’s the right kind of ecumenism! But give the impression that after all one almost regrets any break, that one likes talking to them? No way! These are people who call us corpse-like Traditionalists, they are saying that we are as rigid as corpses, ours is not a living Tradition, we are glum-faced, ours is a glum Tradition! Unbelievable! Unimaginable! What kind of relations can you have with people like that?

    This is what causes us a problem with certain layfolk, who are very nice, very good people, all for the Society, who accepted the Consecrations, but who have a kind of deep-down regret that they are no longer with the people they used to be with, people who did not accept the Consecrations and who are now against us. “It’s a pity we are divided”, they say, “why not meet up with them? Let’s go and have a drink together, reach out a hand to them”  – that’s a betrayal! Those saying this give the impression that at the drop of a hat they would cross over and join those who left us. They must make up their minds.

    We cannot compromise

    That is what killed Christendom, in all of Europe, not just the Church in France, but the Church in Germany, in Switzerland  – that is what enabled the Revolution to get established. It was the Liberals, it was those who reached out a hand to people who did not share their Catholic principles. We must make up our minds if we too want to collaborate in the destruction of the Church and in the ruin of the Social Kingship of Christ the King, or are we resolved to continue working for the Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ? All those who wish to join us, and work with us, Deo Gratias, we welcome them, wherever they come from, that’s not a problem, but let them come with us, let them not say they are going a different way in order to keep company with the liberals that left us and in order to work with them. Not possible.” (ABL Condemns Tradcumenism)

    But let’s not hold Michael Matt’s feet too close to the fire: He is an honest man.  He has always (mistakenly) believed that he was “fighting from within” while the SSPX was “fighting from without” (though he says he doesn’t really believe they are outside the Church…but he fears it).  But he has never been able to shake the remembrance of compromise, even as he fails to recognize the compromises upon which the PCED communities are based.  And that is exactly why he is so interested in promoting this event:

    If he (and the other compromised communities) can walk arm in arm with the SSPX, it gives him an aire of REAL traditionalism, as if to say, “Look, I’m of all the same beliefs as these guys.  And their presence here proves it. Obviously, if even the SSPX has no problem with meeting with us, then clearly we have not compromised.”
    Consequently, the SSPX by its poor example is guilty of the sin of scandal: Their tradcumenism leads these poor indultarians to sink further into their conciliarism, covered by aesthetic veneers of tradition, and the tacit approval of their compromised positions which the SSPX’s participation implies.
    The flip side of the coin applies equally to the SSPX: They have been taught to feel the sting of their “irregular situation,” and the subsequent desire to “heal” it overpowers their old principles.  Attending a tradcumenical venue of conciliarists makes them feel like part of the company; it alleviates feelings of “fringe abnormality;” it gets their clergy used to working with their modernist brothers; it smooths out old resentments between former enemies; it gets them closer to where they want to be.
    Clearly the goal of bringing these groups together is unity (first legal, then doctrinal, but always conciliar).
    And what is done openly in America is done behind closed doors in France, where the branding and “preparation of minds” has been less successful in a country where there is a greater comprehension of the game that is being played.

    Can you imagine FSSP priests attending in 1990 a conference of Archbishop Lefebvre, Avrille, Morgon, Bishop Williamson and Fr. Scott, et al?
    Absurd!  Preposterous!

    But by inversion, this is exactly what the SSPX is doing in volunteering to participate at this conciliar event, and it is every bit as preposterous to those who have resisted the “conditioning of minds” the SSPX has embarked upon since 2012 in order to sell the deal.

    SSPX tradcumenism was inconceivable even 7 years ago, but passes today with nary a whimper from the pews.  Minds are not being conditioned.  They have already been conditioned.  They are ready to enter the great pluralistic conciliar pantheon, and events like this help smooth the passage, and prepare the way.
    But there is one way in which I could have it all wrong:

    If all the players (SSPX included) are really now on the same team, then there is no tradcumenism; the event would then not represent a setting aside of differences for the sake of unity, because having no differences, they would already be united (you know, conciliar).
    In that case there would be no tradcumenism at all: There would be unity in conciliarism on all sides.
    So which one is it:
    Either SSPX attendance at this venue represents a flagrant contradiction of its former condemnation of tradcumenism (and they are hypocrites en route to conciliarism),
    or,

    It is not an exercise in tradcumenism, because the SSPX is already conciliar.

    Is the latter any better than the former?

    Meanwhile, almost all of the clergy and faithful quietly go along, and we know how it will all end: We have 52 years of experience since the Council to guide our forecast.

    Offline Catholictrue

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 02:26:10 PM »
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  • Michael Matt is not Catholic.  Watch this video.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 02:29:39 PM »
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  • Haha- yes- I saw it and commented on the Remnant article website. I asked if our 4 resistance Bishops were invited, and if they weren't , they really weren't representing "all" of Tradition as they were claiming. Well, I must have pushed a very sensitive button with the moderator. ( Mr Matt?) He went totally nuts accusing me of trying to destroy something meant for good, how ignorant I was, on and on. And the reason I thought that it might actually be Michael Matt was because he said I knew nothing about Mr Matt's relationship with +Williamson, and that the Bishop would never have done what I had done. ( What did I do?) I think if it was a hired moderator he would never have referenced any relationship or mentioned the name of +Williamson on his website. It was Matt's rule to break.
    I answered calmly and (I felt) appropriately, and my comment was not allowed. So I deleted the original comment and basically just said I would have gone if the Bishops were welcome, but obviously they weren't. He deleted his mad raving as it referenced nothing after my deletion.
    Yes, it's true. We don't exist. Good for Remnant donations I guess. Too bad they still have to censor and marginalize true Bishops and serious Resistance Catholics- How can they fix it when they can't address the entire Truth? That's Tradition? Yikes!
     Good Luck, Mr Matt

    I've had some of my pro-Resistance posts deleted, too, at the Remnant, though I haven't commented for awhile. 

    I'm glad that you brought up the point of the four Resistance bishops not being invited to the conference. But then, the Resistance isn't really considered, by the Remnant, the SSPX, and especially the FSSP, to be a legitimate trad group. They just consider the Resistance to be a lunatic fringe group. Though Michael Matt has expressed reservations about the SSPX reconciling with Rome, which is a step in the right direction at least. 

    And really, even if the four (or any of the four) Resistance bishops would have been invited, and the invitation accepted by any of the four, mayhem would ensue from the Resistance faithful, in that they would accuse the Resistance bishops of betraying the Resistance by being involved with such a conference, which would be true, to a certain extent.





    Offline Ekim

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 04:53:35 PM »
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  • Wish someone captured a screen shot of Mr. Matt's reply.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 09:00:20 PM »
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  • I WISH I would have screenshot-ed it myself! But there was no way of knowing it would all be gone at the time of writing it. I did go into Disqus and got my deleted response to his rant on me. Oh yeah, I forgot.. he called me divisive and polarizing as well....all of this in response to asking if Bishop Faure, Aquinas, Zendejas and Williamson were welcome. 

    I am not putting down anything or starting a fight. We are Traditional Catholics that aught not be excluded or marginalized for this. I have no idea what Mr Matt's relationship to +Williamson is, nor is it my business to know. The promotion of this meeting as stated is to share Traditional common ground without addressing differences that divide for this critical moment in the Church. If you think asking to be included is divisive and polarizing, well, gee, I guess that's a problem, but not mine.

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 09:41:30 AM »
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  • The Remnant has been conducting heavy "moderation" (censorship) of the comments section for the past few years. It's very rare that a post about the Resistance is ever left to stand. They even admit to this in their "warning":

    Quote
    Comment Guidelines

    The Remnant values the comments and input of our visitors. It’s no secret, however, that trolls exist, and trolls can do a lot of damage to a brand. Therefore, our comments are heavily monitored 24/7 by Remnant moderators around the country.  They have been instructed to remove demeaning, hostile, needlessly combative, racist, Christophobic comments, and streams not related to the storyline. Multiple comments from one person under a story are also discouraged. Capitalized sentences or comments will be removed (Internet shouting). 


    The Remnant comments sections are not designed for frequent personal blogging, on-going debates or theological or other disputes between commenters. Please understand that we pay our writers to defend The Remnant’s editorial positions. We thus acknowledge no moral obligation whatsoever to allow anyone and everyone to try to undermine our editorial policy and create a general nuisance on our website.  Therefore, Remnant moderators reserve the right to edit or remove comments, and comments do not necessarily represent the views of The Remnant.
    Ahem.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 04:47:34 PM »
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  • I WISH I would have screenshot-ed it myself! But there was no way of knowing it would all be gone at the time of writing it. I did go into Disqus and got my deleted response to his rant on me. Oh yeah, I forgot.. he called me divisive and polarizing as well....all of this in response to asking if Bishop Faure, Aquinas, Zendejas and Williamson were welcome.

    I am not putting down anything or starting a fight. We are Traditional Catholics that aught not be excluded or marginalized for this. I have no idea what Mr Matt's relationship to +Williamson is, nor is it my business to know. The promotion of this meeting as stated is to share Traditional common ground without addressing differences that divide for this critical moment in the Church. If you think asking to be included is divisive and polarizing, well, gee, I guess that's a problem, but not mine.



    It's unfortunate that Mr. Matt thought your comment was divisive and polarizing. Maybe that's what he thinks of the Resistance in general. His moderating policy regarding the Resistance is similar to the One Peter Five blog. Most of my pro-resistance posts were removed from there. I would think that the Remnant wouldn't want to be associated with IP5, but I could be wrong. The blogs that don't mind pro-Resistance posts are AKA Catholic (within reason) and the Vox Cantoris blog. 

    I think that the Resistance should organize its own conference, with at least one Resistance bishop speaking (Bishop Zendejas! ;D). Louie Verrecchio might even be willing to talk at the conference, since he's on the outs with Menzingen at the moment. And Mr. Matt could be invited to attend. He just might learn something. 

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 07:43:02 AM »
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  • The Remnant is perilously close to becoming a complete joke that does not even engage in actual journalism. They selectively report - ignoring MAJOR topics in the Trad world for years on end. That's not journalism.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 09:18:20 AM »
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  • Wow, what kind of wimpy posting rules are those?  What kind of true soldiers for Christ are scared of debate?  They are the "safe space" catholic organization for "trad snowflake" catholics. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Remnant's Ecumenical Trad Identity Conference
    « Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 09:30:48 AM »
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  • Wow, what kind of wimpy posting rules are those?  What kind of true soldiers for Christ are scared of debate?  They are the "safe space" catholic organization for "trad snowflake" catholics.

    I agree. Wimps they are.

    I think it has something to do with money, as Tradplorable mentioned earlier on this thread, and it may also be that they don't want to spend time moderating the comments section. They would have to pay someone to do that, like Catholic Answers does. And regarding the money, I don't think that they want to offend their benefactors and subscribers. There's a lot of money to be made on scandalized trads (because there's a lot to be scandalized about). I think that's the bottom line. 

     

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