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Author Topic: The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014  (Read 3691 times)

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Offline Ecclesia Militans

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Offline Neil Obstat

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The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 12:10:53 AM »
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    Another great issue!  Alleluia!!  (Time after Pentecost)

    A really hot portion is found on page 3 (ending of 'From the Desk of the Editor'):



    Some of you ask about the “Agreement of Tolerance” which has been rumoured between the SSPX and Rome. Let me make a few brief comments, no more. Firstly, agreements with modern Rome are only dangerous because they cause one to accept Rome’s modernist ideas and thus to lose the Faith by degrees. The SSPX as an institution has already accepted Rome’s modern ideas and institutionally it is losing the Faith (individuals notwithstanding).
     
    What difference does and agreement make at this stage, other than that it would make their loss of Faith more visible and obvious? As Bishop Williamson says elsewhere, in hearts and minds, the agreement is already here. Its effects undeniably are, and surely that is all that matters.

    Secondly, “tolerance” is a word beloved of God’s enemies. It is a modern “virtue”, though it is no real virtue. And it usually requires something on the part of the one being tolerated. If it were not so in the case of the SSPX, why all the fuss? Why the need for Fr. Pfluger to talk openly and proudly about ‘purging’ the SSPX of all those who disagree with the new line of Menzingen?

    Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, the conciliar church is not “the official church” as Bishop Fellay calls it, it is another religion. We may not be able to define precisely where it begins and where it ends, but we must have no part in it whatsoever. “For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?”  [II Corinthians vi. 14-15]

    A generation ago, in the countries of the Eastern Bloc, situated behind the ‘Iron Curtain,’ many Catholic priests came to an arrangement with the Communist governments of their respective countries (the infamous ‘PAX priests’ in Poland, for example) whereby they would be tolerated. They were required to teach no heresy and they said the Latin Mass, though of course, they did not attack their communist governments. But the faithful who kept
    the Faith stayed away, neither supporting them nor attending their Masses. We must do the same. The conciliar church is bent on attacking and destroying the Faith. The SSPX is now a part of the conciliar church since it accepts its doctrine and has agreed not to attack it and to stay silent.

    Do not let us fall into the same trap. Let us meet the evil head on, with all the force our puny efforts can bring, confident in God’s grace and the prayers of Our Blessed Mother. Keep fighting! Fight harder! Wake up those around you, now, before it is too late!


    “ ‘I know the Unknown God,’ said the little priest, with an unconscious
    grandeur of certitude that stood up like a granite tower. ‘I know his
    name; it is Satan. The true God was made flesh and dwelt among us.
    And I say to you, wherever you find men ruled merely by mystery, it is
    the mystery of iniquity. If the devil tells you something is too fearful to
    look at, look at it. If he says something is too terrible to hear, hear it. If
    you think some truth unbearable, bear it.’ ”
    (G. K. Chesterton, The Wisdom of Father Brown - “The Purple Wig”)



    ...............comments to follow.................
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 12:24:43 AM »
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    I'd like to draw particular attention to this one paragraph:




    A generation ago, in the countries of the Eastern Bloc, situated behind the ‘Iron Curtain,’ many Catholic priests came to an arrangement with the Communist governments of their respective countries (the infamous ‘PAX priests’ in Poland, for example) whereby they would be tolerated. They were required to teach no heresy and they said the Latin Mass, though of course, they did not attack their communist governments. But the faithful who kept
    the Faith stayed away, neither supporting them nor attending their Masses. We must do the same. The conciliar church is bent on attacking and destroying the Faith. The SSPX is now a part of the conciliar church since it accepts its doctrine and has agreed not to attack it and to stay silent.

    Do not let us fall into the same trap. Let us meet the evil head on, with all the force our puny efforts can bring, confident in God’s grace and the prayers of Our Blessed Mother. Keep fighting! Fight harder! Wake up those around you, now, before it is too late!




    I know a Franciscan priest who was a child in the Eastern Bloc when the Communists came to town, throwing the Church bells down to shatter them as if it were a religious ceremony first on the list of priorities upon their occupation of each village.  

    He told me about the "Pax priests" of that time.  They were given the freedom to say Mass, but they were muzzled, and could not criticize the Communists and Freemasons.  They agreed to these terms to continue as they were, albeit with those restrictions.  My friend fled the country and went to Venezuela, only to see Hugo Chavez conducting the very same tactics there.  So he fled to America, and now, he said to me, the current president is doing here the same things for which he had fled Venezuela and Hungary before that.

    The same thing is happening now in the Neo-SSPX.  Our lady, 97 years ago at Fatima, said that Russia would spread her errors throughout the world, and the world includes the SSPX, after all.  So it should not be too much of a shock for us.  

    My primary concern, as I figure it might be for many of the readers who see this, is for our young men who would enter seminary seeking their vocation.  Would Winona tell a young man with a vocation to be a real priest, that he does not have a vocation if he wants to be a solid Catholic instead of a Fellayite Modernist?  

    I think this is an important question to ask, let alone the danger of any good men becoming tainted in the process!  



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 12:38:38 AM »
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    BTW                  

    We have had at least one PAX pope.  
               
       





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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 09:15:12 AM »
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    QUESTION:          

    How could a truly Catholic priest say          

    "Modernism is not a heresy?"
             





    From Fr. Chazal's Austrasia news:

    ARTILLERY ADJUSTMENT
    Indeed some XSPX priests of the liberal militant Pflugerian wing are getting impatient (three or five recycled in six months). They were clearly promised a deal with Rome, notwithstanding what Bishop Fellay claimed in Flavigny recently, and nothing has been officially signed.  It does not suffice to them that the principles of the Society changed, they want to be officially and visibly part of the same official Novus Ordo church, because they either believe the Novus Ordo mass is right, like Fr Lamerand who is now saying the ordinary form, or believe that the Latin mass will be tolerated extraordinarily.  Just like we used to say that the Fraternity of St Peter recycles traditional minds back into the Novus Ordo, the same phenomenon is taking place in the Society.

    The facts on the ground are the principles of 2012 trickling down and festering faster. When i met a priest, i thought he would wake up at the remark of Fr Pfluger's retreat in Flavigny last Christmas: “If we do not accept the magisterial authority of Vatican II, we are not Catholics.” He started to defend the council's authority, but disagreed with its contents, a bit like Fr Vassal who said that Francis is a modernist, but modernism is not a heresy, because otherwise we would be sedevacantists.  In my simplicity, I tried to explain that the council was hijacked by cardinal Bea and his clique, especially at the face off with Cardinal Ottaviani on the schemas, but to no avail.  Same thing with the new Code: it is legitimate, we must get on to it.  The doctrine is sliding, the morals will or already follow.

    The scenario i fear the most is the indultification of the Society, the transforming of it in a recycling machine, corrupting good and upright minds, of priests once excellent and anti-liberals, into neutral moderates, slowly digested without any explicit official canonical signing... that could still happen. The Devil knows best how to destroy, he is the daddy of all lies.







    Just the underlined text from above:

    The Indultification of the Society, the Transforming of It in a Recycling Machine, Corrupting Good and Upright Minds, of Priests Once Excellent and Anti-liberals, into Neutral Moderates, Slowly Digested Without Any Explicit Official Canonical Signing:

    They want to be officially and visibly part of the same official Novus Ordo church.

    Just like we used to say that the Fraternity of St Peter recycles traditional minds back into the Novus Ordo, the same phenomenon is taking place in the Society.

    “If we do not accept the magisterial authority of Vatican II, we are not Catholics.”
    -Fr. Pfluger

    "Francis is a modernist, but modernism is not a heresy, because otherwise we would be sedevacantists."
    -Fr Vassal




    How could a truly Catholic priest say that "Modernism is not a heresy?"
    How could a truly Catholic priest say that "Modernism is not a heresy?"
    How could a truly Catholic priest say that "Modernism is not a heresy?"

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #5 on: July 24, 2014, 06:29:56 PM »
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    How could a truly Catholic priest say that "Modernism is not a heresy?"



    According to the CI-BoD-ers he must not be a valid priest, then.


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    Offline Seek the Truth

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #6 on: July 25, 2014, 10:03:23 AM »
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  • The point below mentions that the Nuns " are WAY out of Traditional practice of the Church.

    Can someone please expand on this and give specific examples.



    The following comments were written by a layman who attended the Mass at which Fr. Burfitt chose to condemn Mr. Colvard by name,

    Point # 3

    He doesn’t mention that the duties which the Nuns perform are WAY out of the Traditional practice of the Church. And he goes right along with it, even after   having been told by several of the “parishioners” that it is wrong.




    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 01:42:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seek the Truth
    The point below mentions that the Nuns " are WAY out of Traditional practice of the Church.

    Can someone please expand on this and give specific examples.

    The following comments were written by a layman who attended the Mass at which Fr. Burfitt chose to condemn Mr. Colvard by name,

    Point # 3

    He doesn’t mention that the duties which the Nuns perform are WAY out of the Traditional practice of the Church. And he goes right along with it, even after   having been told by several of the “parishioners” that it is wrong.



    What do you mean by:  
    the Nuns " are WAY out   (?)


    Who is Mr. Colvard?

    Who is Fr. Burfitt?

    Who is "He" who doesn't mention the duties?  What are the duties?  And what does he go along with?

    What is "it" that is wrong?


    Quote from: Seek the Truth
    Can someone please expand on this and give specific examples.

    Expand on this what?  Give specific examples of what?  


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    Offline Seek the Truth

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 08:50:09 AM »
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  • Look at page 24, point #3 of The Recusant. I am looking for examples of what the Nuns are doing that is not inline with tradition

    Offline B from A

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #9 on: July 28, 2014, 10:44:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seek the Truth
    Look at page 24, point #3 of The Recusant. I am looking for examples of what the Nuns are doing that is not inline with tradition


    I think examples are given in this thread:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=31975&min=40&num=5


    Offline Seek the Truth

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 08:09:13 PM »
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  • B from A

    Thanks!


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 18 - July 2014
    « Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 05:35:51 PM »
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  • Quote from:  B from A
    Quote from: Seek the Truth
    Look at page 24, point #3 of The Recusant. I am looking for examples of what the Nuns are doing that is not inline with tradition


    I think examples are given in this thread:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=31975&min=40&num=5




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    Post
    Quote from: CathConvert

    This whole issue has polarized the parish more than any other scandal we have endured. When the Sisters first came and started in on their agenda there were many arguments. Now we just do not really talk about anything of substance.

    Here is a short list of what we have to endure:
    - They have taken over as sacristans as you know.
    -Taken over the choir almost completely as their rule will not let them sing with men     so that was easy to fix. They just asked the few men we had to leave. We do have a very good men's schola, although they seem to sing about a third of the time, with the sisters singing the rest of the time.
    -They lead a decade of the parish rosary. (Yes, lead the priests and laity in prayer in the church.)
    -They handle the sacred vessels barehanded in front of the whole parish.
    -They intone for the priest all the time even when they are not the schola.(Yes, lead the priests in an official church function)
    -They ring the main church bells. (The men and the boys used to do this.)
    -They have had the school girls sing as the schola several times.
    -This list can go on and on.

    They do not really serve Mass, but as they have been steadily digressing since they arrived I can see it coming. Many of the elders of the parish say they have not seen the like since the Norvus Ordo arrived.



    Quote from: Maria Elizabeth
    Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: CathConvert

    This whole issue has polarized the parish more than any other scandal we have endured. When the Sisters first came and started in on their agenda there were many arguments. Now we just do not really talk about anything of substance.

    Here is a short list of what we have to endure:
    - They have taken over as sacristans as you know.
    -Taken over the choir almost completely as their rule will not let them sing with men     so that was easy to fix. They just asked the few men we had to leave. We do have a very good men's schola, although they seem to sing about a third of the time, with the sisters singing the rest of the time.
    -They lead a decade of the parish rosary. (Yes, lead the priests and laity in prayer in the church.)
    -They handle the sacred vessels barehanded in front of the whole parish.
    -They intone for the priest all the time even when they are not the schola.(Yes, lead the priests in an official church function)
    -They ring the main church bells. (The men and the boys used to do this.)
    -They have had the school girls sing as the schola several times.
    -This list can go on and on.

    They do not really serve Mass, but as they have been steadily digressing since they arrived I can see it coming. Many of the elders of the parish say they have not seen the like since the Norvus Ordo arrived.



    Yes, indeed this sounds like a problem.

    I would repeat what I said earlier: These are the actions of a slippery slope, frog-boiling operation. Today, leading a decade of the Rosary. Tomorrow, leading the whole Rosary. Next week, reading the Epistle and Gospel during Mass. (Especially if Rome came out with some kind of hybrid Mass or official change to the so-called "Extraordinary Form")

    But I'm not just saying this because I'm negative or against the Neo-SSPX. I actually have good, principled reasons for being against these things. And it goes far beyond legalism. On the contrary -- it's more a question of customs, prudence, and what is fitting for the boys present, etc.

    This seems to be in line with the modern world's opinion of men and women -- that women should be the pious ones specializing in "religion" and men are just along for the ride. The exact opposite of how God intended it to be!

    What message does it send when men are discouraged from their normal, authoritative roles? What does that do to the many boys and young men present? Wouldn't it turn them off of Trad Catholicism, even as they are turned off of Public School (which has also been taken over by women)?

    What will it do to male piety, and male vocations?

    The men should ring the bells, serve as sacristans, serve as Ushers, serve Mass, and sing in the Schola. The visible actions going on when everyone is present should be done by men. Behind the scenes, the women can take care of altar linens, flowers, etc. but they should remember St. Paul's admonition that women should "be silent in Church" with a veil over their heads.

    Not flattering to female pride, no, but it's the right path nonetheless. Actually, it's God's will!



    Sacristan Duty:
    The Sisters regularly set up the altar for Mass.  They never wear gloves and they do handle the Sacred Vessels.  When asked about this, they responded, "That's what we've always done!".

    The boys now are becoming more and more unfamiliar with the duties of setting up the altar.  On one occasion when the Sisters were out of town and the boys needed to set up the altar, one parent complained to me that her boys didn't even know where some of the items were kept (whereas they used to know where everything was -- one of her sons is even an MC)!

    Choir / Schola:
    The boys used to sing during the School Mass.  Now, only the girls will sing.
    The Sisters are training the girls how to sing the Propers "in case the girls have a vocation".  

    Leading Parish Rosary & Intoning for the Priest
    This, especially, shocked the parishioners when the Sisters first began doing this.  Many complaints were made to the pastor.  His response was to ignore or condemn any criticism.  "They are Sisters!  How can they do anything wrong?"  Many parishioners responded by ceasing to show up for the Rosary or Benediction.  (How else could they protest?  The pastor is decidedly hostile to anyone who criticizes the Sisters in any way.)

    Ringing the Church Bells
    The boys are only allowed to ring the bells when the Sisters are out of town.

    Question:
    How is a boy, who has a vocation to the priesthood, ever going to learn these functions without being allowed or encouraged to perform these functions many times over?


    The atmosphere has become decidedly "feminine" since the Sisters arrived.  That would be wonderful if this were the Sister's Convent --- but it is not.  It is a Parish Church and the boys are being excluded and discouraged, if only by example!!



    Just like has happened everywhere else this is tried, the girls take over the sacristy because their nature is to get invovled and to anticipate needs for activities taking place, and they compete with each other as to who "gets" to do this or that.

    So the girls will soon be running the whole show, and the boys will want no part of their "mind games" and therefore will abandon their involvement in the sacristy.  

    IOW say "GOODBYE" to seminary vocations.   :sign-surrender:



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    In case you didn't notice:  
    Say "GOODBYE" that is, to vocations among the BOYS.
    Then the "plan" will revert to that "rule" that says if there are no men to be priests then of course, you can have women priestesses.  Or whatever.

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