Collect from the Mass of Holy Thursday -


COLLECT
O God, Who punished Judas for his crime and rewarded the good thief for his penitence, be merciful to us! Our Lord Jesus Christ in His passion gave each one recompense according to his deserts; may He deliver us from our sins of old, and bestow on us the grace of His resurrection; Who lives and rules with Thee . . .

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: peterp

This is absolutely ridiculous.

A saint is person in heaven. Canonization is the public declaration by the Church that a person is in heaven. The Church has NEVER declared anyone (not even Judas) not to be in heaven.

What about Martin Luther or Joseph Stalin?  Why not canonize everyone, even Buddha, then you can pray to Buddha and claim that the Church never condemned him to hell.  The illogic of the Novus Ordos bewilders me..

Go pray to Judas then.

Centroamerica, please point me to one declaration by the Catholic Church that person X is not in heaven. Just one from anytime during her 2000 year history.
And if you cannot (which you can't so don't bother wasting your time) explain why the SSPX is now expect to do something the Church herself has never done.

My, oh my, how blind can we get?

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Fr. Pfeiffer recently went to Poland and he spoke to an old exorcist priest there who explained something very important to him.  

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=32012&min=90#p1
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-David-Hewko-Sermon-Fourth-Sunday-after-Easter-May-18-2014

This recent sermon from Fr. David Hewko, SSPX, has a great segment mentioning Fr. Pfeiffer's trip to Poland, where he spoke to an exorcist priest there, regarding the destruction of the Faith in Poland that JPII has caused:

here[/url]]see below

 
And just what "faith" is it, that JPII inspired the people of Poland to "keep?"  

Indifferentism? (Assisi I AND II)  

Universal salvation?  (Under his watch the American bishops demanded priests to say "and for all" instead of "and for many" in the consecration of the wine at Mass, and he never did diddly SQUAT about it.)  

Communion-in-the-hand?  

That last one's a whole topic unto itself -- but the world's eyes were upon him for many years while he personally gave Communion ONLY on the tongue, while other 'ministers' even in his presence gave it out in-the-hand.  

All the while he   A)  never spoke about the abuse,  B)  never issued any directive to prevent it,  C)  never reprimanded anyone on planet earth for practicing it,  D)  never denounced any bishop anywhere who punished priests for refusing to give communion-in-the-hand, E)  heaped praises upon praises toward many open practitioners of communion-in-the-hand, without clarification or mention of the fact:  a typically COMMUNIST tactic.

(Fr. Frederick Schell R.I.P.,  in California was one of these, who lost his salary, pension, health insurance, apartment, access to the church and permission to say Mass, all because he would not give communion-in-the-hand.  And he was not the only one to lose all these things for that reason.  That was under Paul VI, but JPII came along and never set it straight.  He went around apologizing for all manner of things, but never once apologized to Fr. Schell or the hundreds of other insulted priests who were only trying to preserve Sacred Tradition.  JPII only apologized to the Church's enemies, apparently, never to her friends for the injuries the conciliar church has committed against them.)

Additionally:  

JPII managed to give the impression that he was 'traditional' to those who wanted to believe it, while he did nothing to defend tradition when bishops all over the world openly acted to destroy it.  

You would have to have lived through this to know it happened because hardly anyone spoke about it.  (Similarly, Fr. Pfeiffer learned from an old priest-exorcist in Poland something that he would never find in any dusty library of historical docuмents -- the observations of a living witness who was there to see history happen.)

While it was happening, it was too unbelievable, that it was not possible to put it into words, but now we can look back at it with objectivity, if we dare.  

Curiously, too many can't seem to manage this objectivity when they continue to defend the memory of JPII as if his pontificate was an example of holiness.  

He may have been the Holy Father but his papacy wasn't a very good example of holiness.  And its effect on Poland has been disastrous.



Poland -- Most providentially, just as I was typing this, I was playing a recording of a recent Fr. Hewko sermon, when he explains the effect of JPII on Poland:

"...Jesus Christ founded His Church on Tradition, so that when any time comes, like at Vat.II when the pope and bishops go with a new doctrine, THEY are the ones schismatic.  They are the ones turning their back on Tradition and the Faith.  They are the ones that have fabricated a new religion.  And that defines our crisis now.  

"We're not schismatic disobedient dissidents!  We haven't changed the Faith!  We want to be FAITHFUL to the religion of all time!  We want to be FAITHFUL to the Mass of all time!  And it is not we who have changed it, but it's modernist Rome and the conciliar church, and that's why we REJECT the conciliar church.  And we make WAR with the conciliar church, because it's taking, literally taking millions of souls to hell!  

"Fr. Pfeiffer was recently in Poland, and an old priest, who is an exorcist told him:  MUSLIMS have tried to destroy Catholic Poland and they never succeeded.  They became stronger in the Faith, and fought -- the great Hussars [17th cent.] went to BATTLE against the Muslims, and WON, through Our Lady.  He said Communists have tried to destroy Catholic Poland [20th c.], and they never succeeded.  There were many martyrs.  The same could be said about Ukraine.  And also, the nαzιs tried to crush Poland [20th c.].  And he said, Poland always kept the Faith.  

"But what made Poland fall?  What destroyed the Faith in Poland?  Pope John Paul II!  The pope of the conciliar church -- the pope who promoted false religious liberty, the false Newmass, the false doctrines and the new doctrines of the fabricated conciliar church.  And this conciliar church is persecuting Tradition. And that's why we're having Mass here, and it's also why the Society of St. Pius X has already gone over, by accepting the Doctrinal Declaration (AFD) and not fighting against that which undermines the complete Catholic Faith, they have gone over to the enemy.  And they're doing it in a muddled fashion, a seductive fashion, a deceitful fashion, as we all know, and these are all the works of the darkness.  That's how the devil works, in the darkness..." (25:33)

Hear the rest (dur. 38:25) :
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/m5udvviv2573hp6/Fr+D+Hewko%2C+5-18-14+Milton+ON.mp3





Let me get this straight.  

Poland survived CENTURIES of vicious attacks on her faith, on the Faith of Catholics, and none of it was effective, none of it managed to kill the Catholic Faith in Poland --- until John Paul II came along,,,,,,,,,,,,

Stalin tried to destroy the Catholic Faith in Poland but failed, so doesn't that make him holier than JPII?  Why not Newcanonize Stalin, then?  Or Hitler -- same deal -- why not Newcanonize Hitler?





The sculpture of the late Pope John Paul II during the unveiling ceremony in
Czestochowa, Poland, on Saturday, April 13, 2013. (AP / Czarek Sokolowski)

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/massive-statue-of-john-paul-ii-unveiled-in-poland-1.1236520#ixzz33pcx2OzJ


Now every Pole who actually knows his Faith, within sight of this monster can wake up in the morning and see the stark reminder of how this ghost of the Great Destroyer of the Faith in Poland haunts them to this day.  

How long, O Lord?  





Now it takes a crew for upkeep:



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Quote from: peterp

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: peterp

Quote from: The Recusant

Following up on the question of the recent so-called “canonisations,” please remember to ask yourself the following question. Has
your local SSPX properly condemned them? Has he made it clear that John-Paul II and John XXIII are not saints, and why they can-not be Saints? If not, why not?

We have heard much talk about the canoni-sations being “problematic”, and so forth. But what does that mean in real terms? Where does that leave us? Does that mean that you just don’t like them being canon-ised, even though you accept that they are so? Grumbling and hand-wringing aside, where is the simple message for the simple man? Are JPII and John XXIII Saints, yes or no?

This is absolutely ridiculous.

A saint is person in heaven. Canonization is the public declaration by the Church that a person is in heaven. The Church has NEVER declared anyone (not even Judas) not to be in heaven.

How can the society do something that the Church thoughout her entire history has never dared do?  The Church reserves all judgment to God.

It's pretty obvious that Judas is in Hell from Christ's words.  Unless it would be better to not have been born than to be in Heaven?

It may be obvious or deduced from biblical passage but that is irrelavent. The Church does not go around declaring people not to be in heaven.

You do realize that the Church composed the canons of scripture, yes?  And infallibly so, yes?  That there were more books for consideration than the canon we have been passed down on, and that the Holy Ghost guided the Church in infallibly composing the scriptures, which are in turn infallibly true?  Her approval of the scriptures IS declaring everything within them to be true, especially (not to imply that any of scripture is untrue, of course) the words of Christ Himself!

And you're a bit off the mark with canonizations, too.  A canonization is more than merely a declaration that N. is in Heaven, it is a prescription to venerate them.  Have you read the text of the canonization formula used to canonize JPII and JXXIII?  That's not a rhetorical question, please answer.

Mithrandylan, I already wrote that it may be deduced from the bible (in my response to shin - you couldn't have missed it), but this is not what The Recusant is demanding from the SSPX leadership. The Church authorites have never done such a thing, as you know.

But, just to move on, if I modify my opening comment to Aside from what has been revealed in Holy Scripture, the Church has declared anyone not to be in heaven, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with that. Which still leaves us with the question: Why is The Recusant demanding something from the society that the Church thoughout her entire history has never done?

Deliberately ignoring the heroic virtue practiced by Pius XII and bypassing procedures to "canonize" modernists who had already mangled the canonization process to begin with speaks for itself.

Which is why the society say that we cannot be certain about the current canonization process. But they cannot definitively say that X is NOT in heaven (as the Church herself has never done); only that there are doubts about the declaration(s).